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Copyright strikes on Retro game Youtube vids - Paul Andrews?

Clipper

By Clipper,
in Retro & Arcade Gaming

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maryliddon

maryliddon

Posted
Posted

 

18 minutes ago, gone fishin' said:

Are we surprised that Atari are willing to sell any old shit after the VCS fiasco, even if they don't actually own it? 

 

"Can I buy the rights to the Horace games?"

 

"Sure, give €500 and you can have whatever you want". Turns to colleague and says "who is Horace?"

 

Not at all. I think I said earlier that they’d likely sell the rights without any guarantee they own them.

 

It’d be the buyers responsibility to do due diligence before issuing copyright strikes on YT streamers.

 

One interpretation of the tweet below is that no due diligence was done beyond writing Atari a cheque.

 

 

 

 

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gone fishin

gone fishin

Posted
Posted

As detailed in the Antstream and Head Iver Heels threads, s far as I know Atari have also sold IP to Piko Interactive (Head Over Heels, Great Escape, Way of the Exploding Fist, Wizball, Wizkid etc) and Utbanscan (Gremlin Graohics back catalogue) @S0L mentioned in one of the threads that he doubted much legal documentation would have been left when Infogrames made their acquisition.

 

I wonder how much of all that “IP” is proven to be genuinely owned or if it’s just assumed.

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maryliddon

maryliddon

Posted
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Yeah they have. I talked to the head of Piko on the Atari Age forum.

 

He said they had helped Andrews UK in purchasing IP and, interestingly, emphasised it wasn't Piko's responsibility to validate any purchases they'd helped others to make

 

Quote

Yes we (as many other companies) have acquired lots of IP from Infogrames (Atari SA), Including Beam/Melbourne stuff. However We do not own Horace games.

 

We only own 9 titles from Beam's catalog, which only one resulted in us needing to get other partial rights from other company (ASC for Power Punch II).

 

We did help acquire Subvert Ltd Some IP, but our involvement is just up to there. Every company does their due diligence in terms of the IP, and our involvement is as-is where-is.

 

We have help other companies acquire IP in other instances, after everything is finalized, we are not responsible.

 

It is unfortunate what it is currently happening, but we wish to not be involved in this. And we hope all parties can resolve their differences amicably.

 

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R0b

R0b

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Posted
9 hours ago, RetroLee said:

Also and I know this will be an unwelcomed comment, but - if a "gentleman" of large, less than average looks and appearance had been the centre of this row, would he have attracted the same emotional and financial support that the young lady enjoyed?  In the past we've seen "similar" things happen to people of a male nature and they've been told to "man up" or laughed at.  It does feel like double standards from most people who didn't really care about alleged IP abuse, more wanting to just help the pretty lady.  I of course discuss with due respect but perhaps it needs to be put to discussion.

 

Here's how it probably works, if I'm being generous. For every bad-faith, 'get-in-her-good-books' white knight that a woman attracts, she'll get another guy slimily implying that she's getting undeserved support because she's a woman. Also, guys telling other guys to 'man up' like thoughtless idiots isn't a woman's responsibility and one probably shouldn't hope for the same disadvantage to befall those famously always-privileged womenfolk.

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Rex Grossman

Rex Grossman

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Posted
40 minutes ago, Rob Rule said:

 

Here's how it probably works, if I'm being generous. For every bad-faith, 'get-in-her-good-books' white knight that a woman attracts, she'll get another guy slimily implying that she's getting undeserved support because she's a woman. Also, guys telling other guys to 'man up' like thoughtless idiots isn't a woman's responsibility and one probably shouldn't hope for the same disadvantage to befall those famously always-privileged womenfolk.


When you say guy do you mean “person of a male nature”?

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Clipper

Clipper

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Nice to see an actual classic sea lion post - including the faux-polite style... nicely done not seen one like that since gamergate.

 

Also the latest info from Andrews says "to the best of our knowledge and the best of Atari SA's knowledge" ... wasn't the previous statement saying they had purchased cast iron IP with provenance and list of transactions to back it up?

 

I am not sure those two are necessarily the same thing.

 

I personally find this interesting as the buying and selling of old defunct IP seems fraught and whilst I am sure the buyer wants to revive that IP it is a shame if they tread on other projects - especially when it is hard to prove they bought it!

 

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The Evener

The Evener

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Posted

Interesting discussion on law.stackexchange.com. I appreciate this is not paid expert analysis or legal advice, so the usual caveats apply.

 

https://law.stackexchange.com/questions/5913/what-happens-to-ip-owned-by-a-defunct-company

 

The rules governing ownership of intellectual property are essentially the same as the rules governing ownership any other property. Somebody retains ownership when a company goes defunct. It may not be as easy to determine who that owner is, because with real property "possession is nine-tenths of the law." But a good starting point would be a presumption that, absent a contract indicating transfer to another entity, the original author of the IP still owns it.

 

I.e., if someone can establish authorship, the burden would fall to the entity claiming legitimate license to that author's IP to prove by a preponderance of evidence that rights passed from the author to it.

    Authorship meaning whomever actually wrote the code in question; as in one of the developers employed by the company? – aroth Dec 19 '15 at 7:00
    
    @aroth - Yes. Now, typically somebody will hold up an employment contract showing that the company paid that author for ownership of IP developed in its employ, and then it's a matter of showing a paper trail from there to the person claiming present rights to the IP. – feetwet♦ Dec 19 '15 at 17:32
    
    If the company has gone away, there may be nobody having a copy of that employment contract, or any paper trail. There may be no records of the software in question to be found. So the developer's correct claim "I wrote this code" might be the strongest claim that is supported by any evidence. – gnasher729 Dec 20 '15 at 15:31

 

I understand that no one has been able to speak to William Tang up to this point; is there any prospect of tracking him down to learn of his views and awareness of recent claims around the Horace series?

 

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peteprodge

peteprodge

Posted
Posted
22 hours ago, Bluejam said:

I dunno pete, referring to someone who has autism as a fantasist and is obviously suffering mentally from all the bullying.... maybe not go there. You are obviously very anti bullying with your defending of Octavius and enjoying the lolz about Paul Andrews with ChinnyVision...

 

To be honest, you seem to attract drama all over social media. 

still kudos for having someone set up an account just to attack you!!!

 

@PeteProdgeSUCKS 

 

Not me by the way 

 

oh, these images are not related but just, you know, the DRAMA

 

 

A152CE0C-D145-4002-A20C-5AA850283618.thumb.jpeg.acbdfb3a4c3735a029dc8e0ceeeabdc2.jpeg

329F9AE4-34C5-41EA-8B3B-94DC32B05E0D.jpeg

 

Well, you're getting even more desperate.

 

The second screengrab there isn't even a real response to the real me.

 

The first screengrab is a genuine statement from me about a very nasty individual on the comedy circuit - a woman who bullied other women, threatened violence against other people and when called out on it (not just by myself), she chose to pretend she was being harassed and played the victim. In the end, it was discovered she had locked up an audience member (an elderly with Chrohn's Disease) in the cellar of an Edinburgh venue, all because that audience member didn't want to watch her show any longer. There's a reason why she's blacklisted from almost every comedy venue in the UK and has to play kooky fringe gigs.

 

I had the guts to speak out about her, and she attempted to make my life hell by making false statements to the police, Equity and the UK Comedy Guild. When investigated, those organisations reprimanded her.. In fact, Chortle recently reported on this matter. I brought her misbehaviour to light, it had been going on for a while before I knew about it. I've had pints bought for me and a lot of thanks for having exposed her. There's a lot more stuff she's done. Not sure exactly why you're trying to dredge this up, not sure how any of this makes me a 'troll' (quite the opposite), but hey, that network of anonymous parody trolls on Twitter have been kicking those two images around for a while, trying to frame me as a troll. And they have a pro-Andrews anti-retrogaming-YouTuber agenda. It's almost as if... hmm...

 

The amazing thing here, is that you're trying to say I'm an addict for internet drama, and then you also have a brand new poster in here also trying to make the same argument against Gary Liddon. The irony of that new poster, whose entire posting history is entirely internet drama, and you coming along trying to punt this irrelevant story against me - your argument doesn't work out in the slightest.

 

To bring this back on the subject - which my opponents are reluctant to do - there is still no sign of Paul Andrews owning the Horace IP in the IPO database.

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maryliddon

maryliddon

Posted
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1 hour ago, peteprodge said:

 

 

To bring this back on the subject - which my opponents are reluctant to do - there is still no sign of Paul Andrews owning the Horace IP in the IPO database.

 

Just to be clear even if Horace does turn in that database it only proves Andrews UK registered the mark not that he has any claim on Horace rights

 

Beyond checking that the forms are correct filled in the IPO does not check or ask if you're able to register the mark.

 

The application is published in the UK Trade Marks Journal and if no one objects the mark is granted.

 

It's a lower level of 'proof' of ownership the mark's underlying IP than suspicious Wikipedia updates making the same claim.

 

 

 

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gone fishin

gone fishin

Posted
Posted

That’s probably from Horace In The Mystic Woods, exclusive on the Psion 3 and was copyright 1995 Psion.

 

I was going to post it before, but yes, Psion are mentioned as copyright owners for Horace in the Mystic Woods and were partly involved in the publishing of the original games. Not sure it means if they actually own it or just assumed ownership (like Trailblazer being owned by Gizmondo as part of a re-release in the mid 2000s, but it also seems to be owned by Urbanscan as part of the Gremlin catalogue)

 

Heres the Spectrum conversion from a couple of years ago with the copyright Psion mentioned in the menu

 

 

 

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peteprodge

peteprodge

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By far, the most measured take on the questionable Paul Andrews/Horace situation comes from Mr Biffo. Bet ya didn't see that coming.

 

https://www.digitiser2000.com/main-page/horace-how-hungry-is-too-hungry

 

Some very interesting stuff in the comments about that network of trolls who are very pro-Andrews and very much against certain prolific retrogamers. Those of us who spent time in Paul Andrews's ZX Vega group on Facebook can spot a connection.

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SeanR

SeanR

Posted
Posted
On 24/10/2019 at 10:00, SeanR said:

I take an instance dislike to famous/popular/major* youtubers with small/medium/large* numbers of followers, when they describe themselves as such.

 

it’s like calling yourself “cool”


* delete as applicable


add “prolific” to the list... :coffee:

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