Obi-Wan Series - Friday 27th May

[Matt Defis]

2 hours ago, papalazarou said:

One thing I noticed second time arround 

 

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When obi wan makes his apology Vader is bathed in blue from obi wan’s lightsaber - when he replies ‘it wasn’t your failure’- it’s feels like it’s Anakin talking to him. The light then gradually changed to red . So when he says “I killed him” he is bathed in red light kinda symbolising that Vader has now taken over. I just thought this a very cool way of doing it 

 

This is bang on!! Well spotted 

 

Spoiler

People complain about Christensen but what little you get in this is brilliant, he's perfect when the mask is open and that little smile he gives inside the mask when he says he killed Anakin is prefect. 

 

[Jamie John]

6 hours ago, jonamok said:

And those who appreciate the arts of screenwriting, rewriting and direction.

 

Ooof. That bad, huh?

[Stig]

8 hours ago, Uncle Mike said:

 

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If his friend is gone and fully replaced with a sith lord master of evil, leaving him there to be safely whisked away by his crew moments later seems like something of a genocide-enabling oversight.

 

He doesn't do it because

Spoiler

striking down a defenseless man wouldn't be very Jedi would it.

 

Plus as the man would later say himself, "strike me down I will become more powerful than you could possibly imagine", so why would he want to give Vader that power?

 

Also, Obi Wan knows Vader isn't in charge, so even killing Vader doesn't stop Palpatine or the Empire. Palps would either just get a new apprentice or clone Vader.

 

Kill him or don't kill him, it doesn't change things or matter.

 

[Darren]

7 hours ago, Matt Defis said:

 

 

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that little smile he gives inside the mask when he says he killed Anakin is prefect. 

 

Mostly harmless?

[Phantoon]

13 minutes ago, Stigweard said:

He doesn't do it because

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striking down a defenseless man wouldn't be very Jedi would it.

 

Plus as the man would later say himself, "strike me down I will become more powerful than you could possibly imagine", so why would he want to give Vader that power?

 

Also, Obi Wan knows Vader isn't in charge, so even killing Vader doesn't stop Palpatine or the Empire.

 

Yeah, exactly this.

Spoiler

If he were a "hero" from another series he absolutely should have killed Reva there and then. Nobody can know the secret and she's way too close to it. That would be a huge betrayal of Obi-wan as a character however, it's not a "plot hole"

 

[HarryBizzle]

I’m 4 episodes in and can’t help if people can’t unpick their dislike for Reva - who you’re supposed to dislike, and Moses. 
 

Apart from the very stupid Force-Parkour scene, I’ve not thought anything has been particularly bad, but I’m hoping for some actual background on her as she constantly feels like she’s overcompensating and a bit half hearted in it all, and it would be nice to know why. 
 

I would love to know why her voice is too modern but all the other Americans, including examples like John Boyega, a Brit doing an American accent, Mace Windu, or that ridiculous 1950s diner were all fine. 
 

This show is very stupid, though. There are some nice moments but overall it’s full of nu-Star Wars logic where nothing really makes sense if you think about it for more than ten seconds. And this one’s got it real bad, like “where are you hiding JJ Abrams” bad. 

[gone fishin]

Finished it and the only word I can think of to describe it is “inconsistent”.

 

Some scenes (like the final scene) were great, really cinematic and felt like you were back in the Star Wars universe. Others felt like you were watching a cheap Predator sequel or even worse a cheap tv production, especially the (many) scenes of characters having lengthy dialogue in “space corridor 48”. 
 

Cinematography verged from bright and stunning, to being so dark that I was literally watching a black screen while people were talking.

 

The main actors from the Star Wars prequels were miles above the supporting cast in terms of acting ability. The supporting cast were absolute dog shit, like they were at a level where they wouldn’t be out of place in a filler Netflix tv show.

 

Maybe COVID impacted on the filming, but while it was great to see the old characters on screen again, it’s been a totally aggravating just how  inconsistent it’s been and really a totally wasted opportunity in bringing back two of the biggest characters in Star Wars.
 

Maybe there’s a decent 90 minute cut in there, but I doubt there’s enough to make a good 2 hour Star Wars film.

[fly53r135]

47 minutes ago, Stigweard said:

He doesn't do it because

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striking down a defenseless man wouldn't be very Jedi would it.

 

Plus as the man would later say himself, "strike me down I will become more powerful than you could possibly imagine", so why would he want to give Vader that power?

 

Also, Obi Wan knows Vader isn't in charge, so even killing Vader doesn't stop Palpatine or the Empire. Palps would either just get a new apprentice or clone Vader.

 

Kill him or don't kill him, it doesn't change things or matter.

 

 

Doesn't stack up...

Spoiler

"Kill him or don't kill him, it doesn't change things or matter." 

How could it not matter?!

 

Obi-wan has already said this ends today with one of them dead.  Then he tells Vader he'll do what he has to, make it sound like the gloves are off and not very Jedi.

At the end of the fight Obi-wan sees Anakin is lost and only Vader is left, then he throws away an opportunity to stop the guy whos been hunting and killing Jedi for the past 10 years. 

 

Also Sith can't become force ghosts.  Obi-wan hasn't made contact Qui-Gon Jinn yet so wouldn't know how to "become more powerful than you could possibly imagine"

 

I've really enjoyed this show but some parts have really let it down. 4 times people are just left for dead only to come back, in an age of duels to the death this is just sloppy writing. 

 

 

 

[Stig]

4 minutes ago, fly53r135 said:

 

Doesn't stack up...

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"Kill him or don't kill him, it doesn't change things or matter." 

How could it not matter?!

 

 

 

In the grand scheme of it all, it doesn't stop the Empire or Palps doing what they were and will continue to do.

[Dirty Harry Potter]

5 minutes ago, Stigweard said:

 

In the grand scheme of it all, it doesn't stop the Empire or Palps doing what they were and will continue to do.

[fly53r135]

6 minutes ago, Stigweard said:

 

In the grand scheme of it all, it doesn't stop the Empire or Palps doing what they were and will continue to do.

Spoiler

So you're saying Darth Vader doesn't have a massive influence on the aims and outcomes of what the Empire are trying to achieve? 

 

That's a massive double down.

[Stig]

33 minutes ago, fly53r135 said:

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So you're saying Darth Vader doesn't have a massive influence on the aims and outcomes of what the Empire are trying to achieve? 

 

That's a massive double down.

Spoiler

 

 

Oh course he does in some aspects but only cause he's doing what's he's told to do, as evidence by the end of this episode. But lets be real, Vader is just Palpatines puppet regardless of how awesome he is. Palpatine doesnt really give a shit about Vader, he even tells Luke to strike him down and join him in his place. He cares more about having a powerful ally rather than the actual person.

 

So if Vader was killed here, Palpatine would carry on and just get someone new in his place, very much like he did when Maul was defeated. It changes nothing for Palpetine other than needing to get a replacement, which I'm sure he's very capable of doing.

 

Ultimately though I just don't think Obi Wan had it in him to do it. Even if "Anakin" is dead.

 

 

[Pob]

Spoiler

Anakin isn't dead though is he? It's just a metaphor. He's not been taken over by an evil spirit or anything. His good side ultimately re-emerges in ROTJ, and he fucks Palpatine into the bin, so Obi-Wan was right not to act as executioner.

 

[Jammy]

4 minutes ago, Pob said:

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Anakin isn't dead though is he? It's just a metaphor. He's not been taken over by an evil spirit or anything. His good side ultimately re-emerges in ROTJ, and he fucks Palpatine into the bin, so Obi-Wan was right not to act as executioner.

 

 

Spoiler

Spot on - Obi-Wan’s act of mercy in this is what ultimately saves Luke in RoTJ.

 

[Stig]

6 minutes ago, Pob said:

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Anakin isn't dead though is he? It's just a metaphor. He's not been taken over by an evil spirit or anything. His good side ultimately re-emerges in ROTJ, and he fucks Palpatine into the bin, so Obi-Wan was right not to act as executioner.

 

 

Exactly yeah

Spoiler

That's why I put " " either side. When Obi Wan looks at the half face, he still sees Anakin, regardless of what Vader says.

 

Let's not forget he didn't deliver the killing blow in RoTS either. He can't bring himself to do it even after all the evil things he's done.

 

Yes it's a flaw in OW that costs people lives but also its very Jedi and fatherly of him.

 

[Darren]

I think the way the confrontation ended is completely consistent with the established Star Wars "morality play" for want of a better description.

 

One of the overarching themes of the entire saga is that people with great power can choose to use it for good or evil. And that the evil path isn't always obviously so, it can appear to be the right way to go, it is "easier, more seductive." And a recurring motif is someone realising that what seems like it might be the right thing - killing your clearly evil enemy, or joining them to defeat their even more evil boss - is simply the first step down the path to the dark side. All three of the OT include a pivotal scene where a major character chooses more wisely, even if that choice seems perplexing or just plain wrong to others (including the audience).

 

 

 

 

During the course of this confrontation Obi Wan came to the realisation that eventually led him his actions in that top scene. The difference between this one and that is that he knows Luke still needs him, whereas ten years later he knows he is no longer needed as his protector (and that he can be more helpful as a spooky ghost mentor).

 

As far as I'm concerned it all fits together perfectly.

[HarryBizzle]

That argument is a bit like saying blowing up the death star doesn’t make a difference because they’ll just build another, as if it’s straightforward to replace a Death Star or a Vader, or that all the planets/people they would have blown up/choked in the meantime are worthless. 

[Darren]

1 minute ago, HarryBizzle said:

That argument is a bit like saying blowing up the death star doesn’t make a difference because they’ll just build another, as if it’s straightforward to replace a Death Star or a Vader, or that all the planets/people they would have blown up/choked in the meantime are worthless. 

 

Not quite, it's more like the similar (but not completely analogous) thread in Lord of the Rings where Frodo repeatedly shows mercy to Gollum, who goes on to take the final step required to defeat their true enemy.

[HarryBizzle]

I imagine Frodo might have felt differently if Gollum went around killing swathes of people wherever he went. 

[Stig]

9 minutes ago, HarryBizzle said:

That argument is a bit like saying blowing up the death star doesn’t make a difference because they’ll just build another, as if it’s straightforward to replace a Death Star or a Vader, or that all the planets/people they would have blown up/choked in the meantime are worthless. 

 

Well no because they thought blowing up the Death Star would be the end of the Empire.

[Steven]

 

Once again, this guy nails everything I felt about it, including the good bit.

[Darren]

4 minutes ago, HarryBizzle said:

I imagine Frodo might have felt differently if Gollum went around killing swathes of people wherever he went. 

 

Well I did say it's not completely analogous! The point is that simply killing your enemy isn't necessarily the right answer - they may have a much bigger, and more positive, role to play later on.

 

As a basis for real world morality it's not without its flaws but it's fine as a theme for a work of fiction. And it's been a theme of Star Wars right from the start.

[fly53r135]

6 minutes ago, Stigweard said:

 

Well no because they thought blowing up the Death Star would be the end of the Empire.

 

Why would they think that?  The Emperor isn't any where near the Death Star.

[HarryBizzle]

9 minutes ago, Stigweard said:

 

Well no because they thought blowing up the Death Star would be the end of the Empire.

I don’t think that’s true and it doesn’t make any sense. Why would you think blowing up a half built space station would destroy a multi system empire, all their fleets and the emperor who, in subsequent films, you are surprised by his overseeing the next one’s construction?

[Jammy]

29 minutes ago, HarryBizzle said:

That argument is a bit like saying blowing up the death star doesn’t make a difference because they’ll just build another, as if it’s straightforward to replace a Death Star or a Vader, or that all the planets/people they would have blown up/choked in the meantime are worthless. 

 

Slightly tongue in cheek here, but

 

Spoiler

if you look at Vader’s “evil” contributions overall, it’s just a string of failures. Didn't finish off Kenobi in this when he had the chance (twice), got fooled by the ship switcheroo and allowed Kenobi to escape, didn’t stop the Death Star plans getting to the Rebels, didn’t stop the destruction of the Death Star, allowed Luke and the Rebels to escape from Hoth, and let Luke escape again from Cloud City after Boba Fett had done the hard work. He’s been rehabilitated slightly by some badass stuff in Rogue One and Kenobi, but that was mostly against non-Force wielders and inanimate objects. I still haven’t seen him actually beat a decent Jedi in a lightsaber duel. Even Maul did that. The Clones killed the vast majority of the Jedi order, and the Inquisitors have got most of the stragglers.
 

So far, he’s killed a load of children, contributed to the death of a heavily pregnant woman, defeated a former youngling who presumably never finished her training, strangled a few muggles, and cut an old man in half because he let him. He didn’t even kill the Emperor properly as it turns out.

 

[Parksey]

Balance to the force, innit. 

 

He wasn't a very good Good Jedi, and he's not been a very good Bad Jedi. Perfect balance. 

 

Probably doesn't help that he was basically an angry man child until he found out about Luke. Like making a teenager CEO of an evil empire. 

[Pob]

Anyway, I thought this series was pretty shoddy overall. I thought the same about The Mandalorian to begin with, until I adjusted to what it was going for. But whereas I felt The Mandalorian s1 was really (really) variable in quality, it had a lighthearted charm that carried it through, and I ended up feeling surprisingly emotional about the man with the bucket on his head and his puppet baby. Obi Wan was altogether darker and more portentous, so was missing that heart. I agree with everyone who felt like it was rushed out, with a "I guess that'll do" feeling throughout.

 

It did feel extremely cheap. For some reason, shooting in 'The Volume' seems to work really well on Tatooine in the daytime, but far less well in dark scenes or city areas. Perhaps the way the set can flood the objects with light fools me into thinking they really are in the desert. Plus, I guess the Unreal engine is really great and rendering photo-realistic rocks and sand. The whole finale was do dark, though - not something to watch on the longest day of the year!

 

Spoiler

I did quite like the last episode, though, despite the huge logic flaws, It was more about character development, so for example it didn't matter so much that we knew Luke would be okay, because the point of that story was Reva's arc.

 

I hope future Star Wars shows are done with more care. Perhaps the ones that aren't trying to shoehorn stories into existing gaps will be less hamstrung.

[Captain Kelsten]

Obi Wan has been shown previously to have absolutely zero issues with killing people when he feels it necessary, but has also shown a great desire to redeem or otherwise make people answer for what they've done following the proper 'process', the rules, the jedi way. He killed General Greivous without a thought, but wanted to ensure Count Dooku answered for his crimes rather than be killed, for example. 

[FishyFish]

Put me in the camp of enjoying it, but thinking that it needed longer in the oven. The things I didn't like all came down to poorly executed plotting / editing, things which would probably have benefited from additional production time. I expect that the pandemic will have had a noticeable impact on such things and I know that Disney has to keep to release schedules, but with more time it could have been better.

 

Just small tweaks to the script could have easily improved some things, e.g.

 

Spoiler

The refugees are escaping on what appears to be some sort of space-coach, but it's somehow able to withstand sustained fire from a Star Destroyer.

 

It would have been easy to add a few lines in to the script to cover this:

 

"Why aren't we jumping to hyperspace!?"

"The hyperdrive is offline"

"But they're chasing us with a Star Destroyer!!"

"I know. This isn't good, but this old bird used to be a troop transport and it can take a beating. I think she can hold out until we get the drive back online"

 

That's off the top of my head and might not withstand scrutiny, but it's stuff like that that can make a difference in those "this doesn't hold water" moments.

 

[Girth Certificate]

I was happy to see that the heroic loader droid got added to the Starwars bumper at the start of the ep as well as a lego figure. He was great