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The Irishman - Martin Scorsese, with Robert De Niro, Joe Pesci and Al Pacino

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16 minutes ago, Ste Pickford said:

Perhaps it was trying to give the viewer something like the daughter's perspective?  It's not from her point of view (she's in the scene), but we're seeing it how she would have seen it, from a distance, uninvolved, not close to the action, just watching it unfold in horror.  Any edits and close ups would maybe make it seem more like from the father's point of view.

 

Absolutely, that was the intent. Unfortunately, De Niro just wasn't able to sell it physically. 

 

Anyway, I enjoyed but didn't love this. Pacino was great though. That "His fucking father's..!" scene was hilarious and Hoffa's end was genuinely distressing.

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49 minutes ago, Ste Pickford said:

Perhaps it was trying to give the viewer something like the daughter's perspective?  It's not from her point of view (she's in the scene), but we're seeing it how she would have seen it, from a distance, uninvolved, not close to the action, just watching it unfold in horror.  Any edits and close ups would maybe make it seem more like from the father's point of view.


Makes a lot of sense. But boy it's painful to watch

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For me this was the weakest of the mafia series but I still enjoyed the story and characters despite the flaws. The store scene is the most obvious failing with the whole "de-aged" process, but all through the movie De Niro is stiff and slow moving, and when he was throwing the gun in the river while standing on rocks I genuinely had a moment where I said "ooh, if he falls there he'll break his hip".

 

The CGI when we first see him driving the truck to me was off, and almost like an Instagram filter. Pesci and Pacino didn't seem to age or de-age except for the prison scene near the end (Pesci anyway) but maybe that's down to Pesci playing it slow and menacing with less physical action required.

 

Pacino was fun to watch, but he could have been playing any character, and although I didn't fully buy into "Hoffa", it's Pacino and at least I got the impression there's some passion put into the role regardless of how convincing he comes across. 

 

It was fun to see them on screen together for what is possibly the last time and the movie never dragged, but for me the CGI is still off, no matter how well done it's been. My brain can't unsee what it knows just because of some camera trickery, and I felt a bit removed from the world because of that. 

 

7/10 Still enjoyed, but would watch Goodfellas or Casino before this. 

 

 

 

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Another failing of the film in my opinion is that there was next to nothing in it about actual good union work. They said that Hoffa was beloved by the union members because he achieved a lot for them. But other than that all the union was doing was stealing shit and loaning money to the mob.

 

You could almost make a case that it had an anti union bent to it. Which in the current zero hour contract climate is reprehensible. 

 

The more I think about the film the less I like it. And I liked it little enough to begin with. 

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The thing about the de-ageing I don’t get is why it looked so much less convincing than the work done on Samuel L Jackson in Captain Marvel. That was proper uncanny valley, where you know you’re seeing it but just can’t believe it. 

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9 minutes ago, Popo said:

The thing about the de-ageing I don’t get is why it looked so much less convincing than the work done on Samuel L Jackson in Captain Marvel. That was proper uncanny valley, where you know you’re seeing it but just can’t believe it. 

 

Perhaps because he's younger?

 

Edit:

Also, is it a different technique in that film?  There's a short documentary about The Irishman on Netflix, and in it Scorcese said that ILM had the tech to do de-aging on actors, but it was a bit invasive ('ping pong balls on the face' kind of thing), and he told them he couldn't use anything like that as it would get in the way of the actors doing their acting.  He told them to come back when they had a less invasive system that didn't involve interfering with the actors.  Some guy came back and worked out a way he could just about do it with a camera with three  lenses on it.

 

I imagine they were much more willing to have an actor with ping pong balls on his face for Captain Marvel.

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1 minute ago, Ste Pickford said:

 

Perhaps because he's younger?


Turns out DeNiro‘’s only 6 years older. 
 

Maybe Marvel spent 10 times more on the effects than Netflix. 

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On 03/12/2019 at 00:02, Bucky said:

De Niro dishes out the least convincing kicking of a shop keeper I've ever seen in my life.  It was like on of those Barclays walking football promotions for the over 50s.

After trudging through this in three sittings I've confirmed that this iscene may actually be a comedic high watermark.  I don't think I've disconnected so violently from a recent "classic" this hard since Blade Runner 2049.

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I actually thought this was quite dull, like someone was trying to make a Scorsese mob film and not quite getting there. 

 

The cg was poor but if you're trying to do young versions of old actors what are you going to do? It got to the point where I wasn't even sure if they were meant to be the younger versions or not, only the context of the scene seemed to place it in the timeline.

 

I'm also not sure the 3.5 hour run time really warranted the story been told.

 

That said, I'm "glad" I've seen it but won't ever watch it again.

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19 minutes ago, martingee said:

I actually thought this was quite dull, like someone was trying to make a Scorsese mob film and not quite getting there. 

 

The cg was poor but if you're trying to do young versions of old actors what are you going to do? It got to the point where I wasn't even sure if they were meant to be the younger versions or not, only the context of the scene seemed to place it in the timeline.

 

I'm also not sure the 3.5 hour run time really warranted the story been told.

 

That said, I'm "glad" I've seen it but won't ever watch it again.

I agree 

 

Basically the entire film consisted of De Niro’s character doing various odd jobs for people.

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On 06/12/2019 at 17:00, Popo said:


Turns out DeNiro‘’s only 6 years older. 
 

Maybe Marvel spent 10 times more on the effects than Netflix. 

 

Netflix used ILM, so didn't scrimp. 

 

Marvel have used Lola VFX for all their deaging stuff.  ILM's solution was a wizzy 3d + AI based thing.  Lola do most of it in 2d with artists who've spent years working on deaging the hard way.  Their work still amazes me, even when it doesn't quite pan out.

 

They had it easier with Jackson though.  His current  face isn't as saggy and big nosed as The Irishman's leads. 

 

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Got an hour or so in last night before switching it off. Does it pick up? It feels so flabby and self indulgently slow so far. I was planning on watching the rest night but could easily just leave it there. 

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5 hours ago, mexos said:

Got an hour or so in last night before switching it off. Does it pick up? It feels so flabby and self indulgently slow so far. I was planning on watching the rest night but could easily just leave it there. 

I'd say if you're not digging it so far, then don't bother. It's a very different beast from Goodfellas or Casino. It is a lot more slow paced and sombre,  as the whole thing is a an exploration on the passing of time.

 

It definitely won't be for everyone, but for me it's a bleeding masterpiece.

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Yeah it's very much just about time passing, and how that erodes relationships. I've watched it four times now and I just love it for its ambition.

There's criticism about the women not getting much to do and Anna Paquin being out of place, but she's the beating heart of the whole thing. She see's everything her Father does and she's like some kind of Picture of Dorian Grey, wearing his conscience. 

 

Plus the "You're late" scene with Pacino and Stephen Graham is just so good.

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The look on Tony Pro’s face when he realises the discussion is going south again is just superb. Pacino and Graham really nail those scenes.

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I get all the faults fired at it and can agree with some but the film has several scenes with actors knocking it out of the park. In a lesser film I think the above mentioned Tony Pro and Hoffa/Frank scene would be enough to elevate a film to being a worthwhile production, even if there wasn't much of note in the rest of the film, this has several scenes of that calibre (not even mentioning it's other non acting derived merits) so to me it's a bloody good movie and a definite good time.

 

I think I'm going to watch it again tonight.

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1 hour ago, kerraig UK said:

There's criticism about the women not getting much to do and Anna Paquin being out of place, but she's the beating heart of the whole thing. She see's everything her Father does and she's like some kind of Picture of Dorian Grey, wearing his conscience.

 

Spoiler

De Niro trying to talk to her in the bank and her giving him the cold shoulder is particularly heart breaking. I was also like, whoa, De Niro's actually acting! Felt like a very human moment from him.

 

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2 hours ago, kerraig UK said:


Stephen Graham said that in the script there were no lines for DeNiro in that scene, but Graham was like "No fucking way am I gonna be in a scene with DeNiro and not act with him" so when they were doing the whole "10 minutes/15 minutes" bit Stephen Graham ad libbed to DeNiro "What do you think Frank?" and DeNiro, off the cuff, fired back "Twelve an a half..."

Thats a good fucking anecdote. 


have you watched The Irishman in Conversation on Netflix?

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3 hours ago, mansizerooster said:

I found this film to be pretty boring tbh. I watched Goodfellas right after, and that was completely masterful.

I watched Goodfellas myself for the first time last night and I agree, it’s a masterpiece and so much better than this film.

 

What really surprised me about Goodfellas was just how funny it was, as I wasn’t really expecting that at all.

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25 minutes ago, Charliemouse said:

I watched Goodfellas myself for the first time last night and I agree, it’s a masterpiece and so much better than this film.

 

What really surprised me about Goodfellas was just how funny it was, as I wasn’t really expecting that at all.

FOR
THE
FIRST 
TIME

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6 minutes ago, kerraig UK said:

FOR
THE
FIRST 
TIME

Yes

 

The only Scorsese films I had seen before I watched the Irishman this week were The Departed and After Hours.

 

I noticed Mean Streets is also on Netflix so I shall watch that next.

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3 minutes ago, Bazjam said:

What on earth have you been doing all these years?

I have to admit I haven’t seen a lot of the so-called classic films, I aim to remedy that during the next year.

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6 minutes ago, Charliemouse said:

Yes

 

The only Scorsese films I had seen before I watched the Irishman this week were The Departed and After Hours.

 

I noticed Mean Streets is also on Netflix so I shall watch that next.

Raging Bull is a must.

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8 minutes ago, Charliemouse said:

I have to admit I haven’t seen a lot of the so-called classic films, I aim to remedy that during the next year.


I envy the fuck out of you. Imagine having Taxi Driver, Raging Bull, Mean Streets, Casino, Color of Money, Shutter Island, Cape Fear & King of Comedy to look forward to. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuu...

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