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Thor 4: Love and Thunder - 2022


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3 hours ago, Gabe said:

To @PK & @Delargey

 

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The plan was for him to kill all the gods, using the power of the wish granted by Eternity.

 

And the reason he couldn't just use the power from the blade was because it was killing him - so he wouldn't have time to go around and kill them all.

 


I don’t think it was killing him, unless I completely missed that. He dies if the sword is destroyed. 

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There's a deleted scene doing the rounds that makes it look like a lot was changed at the last minute plot wise.

 

 

It's a good point about all the gods being selfish arseholes. Even the Asgardians with all their technology so advanced it might as well be magic are just using it run a chintzy tourist trap and shill cheap aftershave. The film feels like it’s on the verge of something thematically where the god characters we've been following realise they are squandering their gifts and should be helping civilisations instead. But it never materialises and you get a tacked on feeling power of love ending.

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6 minutes ago, Harsin said:

There's a deleted scene doing the rounds that makes it look like a lot was changed at the last minute plot wise.

Haven’t see that deleted scene myself (yet), but makes a lot of sense that much of the film was changed at the last minute. Really felt like that was the case; like the film we saw released in the cinema wasn’t finished somehow, and (IMO) needed more time and reshoots to get it half-decent.

 

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"There were whole sequences, planets, characters, and worlds that didn't end up in the movie that were hilarious and amazing and [that] we spent a lot of time and energy on, and certainly the entire crew also designing and conceiving. It's just amazing how much great material is not in the film, considering how much great material is in it. Usually, it's like, you're just trying to get enough good stuff to put in the film, and this had overflow. So that was really surprising."


I bet the artists were well pleased that all their work ended up on the cutting room floor because Chris Hemsworth was playing Whole Line Is It Anyway.

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1 hour ago, HarryBizzle said:


I don’t think it was killing him, unless I completely missed that. He dies if the sword is destroyed. 

It was mentioned that the sword poisons as well as corrupts and kills its user after a while - I can't recall if Thor says it when explaining to Jane and Valkyrie or if it is part of the sequence near the beginning - but it does get stated.

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1 hour ago, Harsin said:

Even the Asgardians with all their technology so advanced it might as well be magic are just using it run a chintzy tourist trap and shill cheap aftershave.

 

I don’t think your run of the mill Asgardians are gods - like the Valkyries aren’t, I don’t think.


The whole thing is a bit weird. It’s not clear what a God actually is. In Thor 1, the Asgardians are basically powerful aliens who ancient Vikings thought must be Gods when they helped them out once. But this seems to tie Gods into belief systems and what not and it’s not really clear what makes someone a God or not. My understanding was that apart from Thor’s family, the only other possible Asgardian who might be a god is Heimdall.

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There's basically too many things going on at once. The previous Thor films expected you to accept: what if Norse gods real but space aliens. The sequel brought in more Norse mythology, as did Ragnarok (with a side quest to a trash planet).

 

This one just throws bloody everything at you.

 

Spoiler

You have the space shit, but then also Norse shit, but then also all other gods were also space aliens, but unlike the Norse gods they all hang out on The Citadel from Mass Effect or something. And also Eternity is not a "god" like those but more like an actual omnipotent god... And like, just slow down, introduce concepts more slowly. Don't just throw the entire contents of several runs of comics into a film all at once and expect them to work together because of quick and dirty improv gags being smeared all over it by the actors.

 

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15 minutes ago, Benny said:

There's basically too many things going on at once. The previous Thor films expected you to accept: what if Norse gods real but space aliens. The sequel brought in more Norse mythology, as did Ragnarok (with a side quest to a trash planet).

 

This one just throws bloody everything at you.

 

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You have the space shit, but then also Norse shit, but then also all other gods were also space aliens, but unlike the Norse gods they all hang out on The Citadel from Mass Effect or something. And also Eternity is not a "god" like those but more like an actual omnipotent god... And like, just slow down, introduce concepts more slowly. Don't just throw the entire contents of several runs of comics into a film all at once and expect them to work together because of quick and dirty improv gags being smeared all over it by the actors.

 

 

Waikiti doesn't give a fuck. 

This is an arrogant shrug of a film.

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3 hours ago, HarryBizzle said:

 

I don’t think your run of the mill Asgardians are gods - like the Valkyries aren’t, I don’t think.


The whole thing is a bit weird. It’s not clear what a God actually is. In Thor 1, the Asgardians are basically powerful aliens who ancient Vikings thought must be Gods when they helped them out once. But this seems to tie Gods into belief systems and what not and it’s not really clear what makes someone a God or not. My understanding was that apart from Thor’s family, the only other possible Asgardian who might be a god is Heimdall.


Gods in Marvel are all powerful, long living space people of various persuasions.

 

Although when you dig down, even the most powerful beings in the Marvel Universe usually started out as a janitor called Dave.

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Made me laugh out loud more than any other Marvel movie I can remember.  

 

Spoiler

Ninny-Nonny,

Maybe your arm’s in Valhalla? Meditating just made me more angry.

Jane Fonda/Jodie Foster.

The jealous axe creeping up.

Killer bunny.

 

Are some of the ones I was still giggling about when the film was over.

 

Didn’t think it detracted from the drama of the finale, which brought a tear to those of us watching.

 

Then 

Spoiler

“Love” being a smart-mouth brat, was spot on. And the crescendo of G’n’R as they leapt up to clobber the monsters as the neon titles kicked in..


…just left me happy.

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I enjoyed this but was left feeling there's a better film that could have been made from the ingredients here.

 

It chucks so many gags and 'bits' at you that inevitably a bunch miss... But there's so many that some will most likely get you. I enjoyed the jealousy stuff, Jane Fonda/Josie Foster, a few other bits, but felt others were noticeably flat - the am -dram that isn't funny this time, it does the goat thing too much. 

 

But the fact it tries to be funny in absolutely every moment kinda undermines it all. The film suffers because it chooses to throw 7 more gags over a couple of plot it character scenes. The 2 stories here are both good and dramatically satisfying, but they're like half plots - a significant part of Jane's plot is introduced in the third act and basically shuttered 2 minutes later, for instance. Bale is completely under used - the film basically decides his plot is simply a set up for an antagonist and then abandons it until the end. He has fun in the role and bizarrely creepy at times, but he's barely in the film.

 

The other problem I think, and it comes across more in the first half, is it almost felt to me like the comedy was contemptuous of the whole thing - the opening monologue takes the piss out of Thor's story (which is also rubbished by making Thor a pure comedy character now), New Asgard has the am-dram performance mocking the previous film and fans, and minor sight gags like an ice cream shop called 'Infinity Cones' seems to read as a jab of the commercial nature of the franchise.

 

Saying all that I did enjoy it. It is funny, it has good performances, the action is fine, the GnR thing works for me, and although the end is a bit... shit... the ride to get there is fun. But definitely could have been better.

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I’ve loved Waititi since the Conchords days and thought he was genuinely getting better with every movie he made but holy shit if this isn’t a one star flaming turd of a movie. 
 

Smug without earning the right, totally unfunny, just stuffing shit it thinks we want to see at us for two mind numbing hours. 
 

The idea that Dr Strange 2 isn’t my least favourite film in this “phase” is astonishing but they did it. They made a worse movie than the “I WANT TO BE A MOOOOOM” bullshit in the multiverse of misogyny. 
 

Marvel have spread themselves too thin and have gone from a company that makes some alright films and some pretty good ones to a company that makes some alright tv shows and quite a lot of absolutely shite films. 
 

It’s far and away the worst movie I’ve seen this year and quite possibly my least favourite MCU movie. Shite. 

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I’m kind of ambivalent.

 

HATED the screaming goats though, just STFU! I won’t ever watch it again because of those alone.

 

I enjoyed trying to identify the bands from each of the end credit logo pastiches, but was I too slow on the uptake or was there no Iron Maiden reference at all? Heavy G’n’R use in the soundtrack was a miss though, whereas Immigrant Song was perfect because it’s actually relevant to the theme, just using 80s metal for kicks didn’t work for me.

 

Really liked Zeus, especially his little prance down the steps holding his skirt, but felt like they were trying to recreate the role of Jeff Goldblum.

 

Side note, it was a bit odd to see the Guardians doing their thing as normal but with no mention of Gamora at all.

 

And wasn’t the outline of the cosmic thingy at the end a bit familiar? What was his name, Galactus?

 

 

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11 hours ago, Darwock said:

HATED the screaming goats though, just STFU! I won’t ever watch it again because of those alone.

 

That was the bit(s) that made me laugh most.  It's the same as the 'alpaca' noise my daughter insists I make when I give her a piggy back up to bed.  I was no doubt thinking about how much she's going to crack up when she watches it. :)

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On 10/09/2022 at 22:21, Gabe said:

After typing that comment I decided to actually watch Adventures in Babysitting - not as good now that Disney has edited out some of the bits that gave it some heart - and couldn't believe who played Thor. He looked damn good!

 

What is it with Disney hacking bits out of things on Disney+? There was an episode of Bluey that my two girls love where a Donkey does a shit (It's funny in the context of the episode). I had downloaded it for them before it was on Disney+ so they had already seen it. They waited excitedly for the Donkey doing a shit. It was cut out. It's a donkey doing a shit. It's hardly Cannibal Ferox!

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Watched this on Saturday and I guess I kinda land at "it was alright" conclusion.

 

If I could summarise my criticism, it's the same as I had/have of GotG2. It's a film that ups the quips and throwaway gags, but does so at the expense of actually earning them. It's not a punchline if there's no lead in to it, so it's just people trying to be quotable rather than it assisting with anything.

 

And that's entirely Waititi's thing, right? Say whatever bullshit is in his head, and some of it lands well.

 

Spoiler

I thought the goats were brilliant, and I loved the Stormbreaker/Mjolnir relationship issues. The Super Mario Galaxy world was great fun. The kids getting the powers at the end was superb, and 100% Waititi telling us this is a fucking kids film, chill out. I liked how it ended, though fuck knows what happens in the next film Thor is in because he starts every film in the wrong place. Bale was magnificent, but woefully underused.

 

The entire villain's subplot was a miss; if we don't know why he's kidnapping the kids or what's going on, simply having kidnapped the kids isn't that good a plot point. The first 20 minutes were just a way to reset Thor to doing something without the Asgardians Of The Galaxy. The Jane subplot was...ok?...I guess. The need to explain their distance from each other seemed like a strange way to use film time.

 

Omnipotent City was wasted, Crowe was wasted. If everyone is a slightly goofy, quick witted character with zingy one liners, is anyone technically goofy, quick witted or in possession of zingy one liners? This film indicates no.

 

So, like GotG2, it's predecessor is one of my favourite movies (not just Marvel movies), but this one fails to hit the mark. And I think that's part of the problem; after being so delightfully surprised, is it possible for lightning to hit twice in the same way? I'd say probably not.

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On 12/09/2022 at 12:37, Pelekophoros said:

Watched this on Saturday and I guess I kinda land at "it was alright" conclusion.

 

If I could summarise my criticism, it's the same as I had/have of GotG2. It's a film that ups the quips and throwaway gags, but does so at the expense of actually earning them. It's not a punchline if there's no lead in to it, so it's just people trying to be quotable rather than it assisting with anything.

 

And that's entirely Waititi's thing, right? Say whatever bullshit is in his head, and some of it lands well.

 

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I thought the goats were brilliant, and I loved the Stormbreaker/Mjolnir relationship issues. The Super Mario Galaxy world was great fun. The kids getting the powers at the end was superb, and 100% Waititi telling us this is a fucking kids film, chill out. I liked how it ended, though fuck knows what happens in the next film Thor is in because he starts every film in the wrong place. Bale was magnificent, but woefully underused.

 

The entire villain's subplot was a miss; if we don't know why he's kidnapping the kids or what's going on, simply having kidnapped the kids isn't that good a plot point. The first 20 minutes were just a way to reset Thor to doing something without the Asgardians Of The Galaxy. The Jane subplot was...ok?...I guess. The need to explain their distance from each other seemed like a strange way to use film time.

 

Omnipotent City was wasted, Crowe was wasted. If everyone is a slightly goofy, quick witted character with zingy one liners, is anyone technically goofy, quick witted or in possession of zingy one liners? This film indicates no.

 

So, like GotG2, it's predecessor is one of my favourite movies (not just Marvel movies), but this one fails to hit the mark. And I think that's part of the problem; after being so delightfully surprised, is it possible for lightning to hit twice in the same way? I'd say probably not.


Ah, I think you’ve cracked it here with your comments about GotG2. That’s exactly what it’s like in terms of comparisons with the previous film in the series.

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On 12/09/2022 at 12:37, Pelekophoros said:

And that's entirely Waititi's thing, right? Say whatever bullshit is in his head, and some of it lands well.

 

It really isn't. Stuff like Wilderpeople and Boy are really well judged and full of heart. Ragnarok kind of felt like he'd been offered the gig and thought "cool, I don't really care about any of this but if they're going to pay me then I'll have a bit of fun with it". This one is more like "they want me to do another one? ffs ok I suppose the money won't hurt, let's see how dumb I can make it without getting fired." It's still got a lot of heart, especially in the resolution of it all, it's just really saggy getting there.

 

I'm kind of hoping they get someone else in for the next one and let him go back to making good films about things that matter to him.

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1 hour ago, Exidor said:

 

It really isn't. Stuff like Wilderpeople and Boy are really well judged and full of heart. Ragnarok kind of felt like he'd been offered the gig and thought "cool, I don't really care about any of this but if they're going to pay me then I'll have a bit of fun with it". This one is more like "they want me to do another one? ffs ok I suppose the money won't hurt, let's see how dumb I can make it without getting fired." It's still got a lot of heart, especially in the resolution of it all, it's just really saggy getting there.

 

I'm kind of hoping they get someone else in for the next one and let him go back to making good films about things that matter to him.

 

I meant more in terms of when he's up talking in front of people. So much of Love And Thunder just felt like a stream of consciousness direct from his brain, mimicking his cadence and silliness in interviews. I agree with you completely on his other film output. 

 

I completely agree with your take on his Thor films. L&T definitely feels like it was made in the midst of a global pandemic where everyone went a little bit crazy and had a wild millionaire's party in Australia. 

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On 10/07/2022 at 21:13, Broker said:

I’m really surprised by the negative response. One thing I really liked was it being a tight 90 minutes or so. Bale is a far more compelling villain than 90% of Marvel’s output, it wasn’t constantly slowed down by pointless cameos and references to future marvel stuff that will never actually happen or won’t look the same if it does. Great soundtrack. I thought it balanced the tones pretty well. It’s not as good as Ragnarok but that’s one of my top 3 MCU movies, it’s certainly better than Spider-Man: Fanservice and Dr Strange Vs Sam Raimi’s Painful lack of talent. 
 

 

Mark Kermode is a pretentious wang with terrible taste in films though. 

Totally agree with all of this.

 

This was a perfect post-work watch yesterday.  The screaming goats, the campest Zeus, Korg, the sound track, Bale was definitely one of the best villains I've seen and it looked gorgeous.  Loved it!

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