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Football Thread 2019/2020

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33 minutes ago, The Fox said:

 

Why do people keep saying there’s no intention at the same time as admitting he’s deliberately hacked at him with no chance of getting the ball?

 

If you just mean he didn’t mean for his ankle to snap then yes, that’s fucking obvious and shouldn’t even need to be said. I doubt any professional player has intentionally broken another’s leg. But if you mean he didn’t mean to foul him, then that’s just patently untrue. And hacking at someone from behind like that is always reckless.

I even qualified the intention as relating to malicious intention. And said it was foul. And said it was malicious which shows he meant to foul Gomes. Not quite sure how you failed to understand that, it's pretty clear.

 

As for professional's deliberately breaking other people's legs, Keane on Alf-Inge Haland did as good as and ended his career. 

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Fucking hell. Man City base their play on cynical fouls. Yes it was a deliberate foul and it should have been a yellow. But it is never a red. If you start reacting to the injury rather than the action then you enter dangerous territory.

 

I've seen many, many fouls worse than that, non e of which have resulted in a red card. Why? Because there was no injury? That's bullshit. The Son red was bullshit too. 

 

The Guendouzi rugby tackle should have been a straight red, because it was high and around the neck. They even give penalties for that in Rugby. You can't say it is only a red if he breaks the other guys neck. The injury or lack thereof matters not. 

 

For the league, it means they can now sweep all the VAR issues under the carpet for another week. So I am sure they are ok with it. 

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12 minutes ago, Stopharage said:

As for professional's deliberately breaking other people's legs, Keane on Alf-Inge Haland did as good as and ended his career. 

 

Common misconception. Haaland had a dodgy knee anyway (not the one Keane kicked) and had to retire after surgery to it didn’t fix the issue.

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15 minutes ago, bradigor said:

Fucking hell. Man City base their play on cynical fouls. Yes it was a deliberate foul and it should have been a yellow. But it is never a red. If you start reacting to the injury rather than the action then you enter dangerous territory.

 

I've seen many, many fouls worse than that, non e of which have resulted in a red card. Why? Because there was no injury? That's bullshit. The Son red was bullshit too. 

 

The Guendouzi rugby tackle should have been a straight red, because it was high and around the neck. They even give penalties for that in Rugby. You can't say it is only a red if he breaks the other guys neck. The injury or lack thereof matters not. 

 

For the league, it means they can now sweep all the VAR issues under the carpet for another week. So I am sure they are ok with it. 

 

Yeah Man City do rotational fouling too, albeit not as often as Spurs. David Silva in particular has been a snide, dirty bastard for years and has largely got away with it. I obviously haven’t suggested that only Tottenham do it, and gave an example of an Arsenal player who deliberately fouled someone recently.

 

The main problem here is that football is far too lenient on fouls with no intention of getting the ball, regardless of who they play for.

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2 minutes ago, neoELITE said:

 

You never do. 

 

Would you be able to explain the post to me? Shimmy hasn’t elaborated so I’m currently none the wiser.

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Bayern Munich got smashed 5-1 yesterday, they've sacked the manager Niko Kovac today. 

 

They'll still be five points clear at the top of the table at the end of the season won't they?

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21 minutes ago, The Fox said:

 

Would you be able to explain the post to me? Shimmy hasn’t elaborated so I’m currently none the wiser.


When you complain about whataboutism in a post don’t in the same post use whataboutery as a defence for the actions of your own team.

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so, I said to my son "there's been a read in the Everton/Spurs game. Guess who?"

 

he immediately replied "Son?" and I'm like "yes dad?"

 

but seriously... he's an arsenal fan

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Just now, SeanR said:

so, I said to my son "there's been a read in the Everton/Spurs game. Guess who?"

 

he immediately replied "Son?" and I'm like "yes dad?"

 

but seriously... he's an arsenal fan

 

Are you your own son?

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4 minutes ago, Shimmyhill said:


When you complain about whataboutism in a post don’t in the same post use whataboutery as a defence for the actions of your own team.

 

Yeah still no clue what you're talking about, sorry.

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Listening to the VAR discussion on MotD2 and it looks like VAR isn't the issue, but Atkinson and Taylor are completely incompetent. 

 

Edit: Obviously there are issues and it needs fixing, but year. There is a theme with issues of late. 

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3 hours ago, bradigor said:

Fucking hell. Man City base their play on cynical fouls. Yes it was a deliberate foul and it should have been a yellow. But it is never a red. If you start reacting to the injury rather than the action then you enter dangerous territory.

 

Yeah, I think he has just sent him off because he doesn't want a player on the pitch when they're clearly distraught, and they're not going to be able to concentrate on the game. I understand the reasoning, but that should probably have been left up to his manager's discretion. Just give him the yellow, because that's all the foul itself warrants, and tell the third official to pass the message on that you don't think he's in any state to continue.

 

VAR is such a mess as currently implemented. They need to make it clear whether the VAR team or the ref themselves have the final say. The delays all seemed to come from this not being clear, and neither party wanting to stick their neck out. It would be so much quicker without the back and forth.

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1 hour ago, Adrock said:

Pochettino to Bayern? I think he is just about finished at Tottenham 

 

I think he'll leave Spurs before the year is out though I'm not sure Bayern is the place. Maybe it's just me projecting, but he's a Spanish first language guy who lived in Barcelona for a decade and used to be captain of PSG. Throw Manchester United into the mix and I think there are a number of huge jobs which might be available before the opening day of the 2020/21 season and I do wonder if Poch has had a tip from any of these places.  

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10 hours ago, Liamness said:

 

Yeah, I think he has just sent him off because he doesn't want a player on the pitch when they're clearly distraught, and they're not going to be able to concentrate on the game.

 

wut

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15 hours ago, Scruff said:

Nah. I'm a West Ham fan and he's shithouse. I've seen him take out players all the time. Did it to Cresswell(?) I think last year. Deliberately stamped on his ankle off the ball.

 

*season, not year :doh:

 

You also got stamp and ankle wrong...

 

Poor Snodgrass. :( Thoughts and prayers. How many games did he miss?

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Not sure the point you're trying to make? I'm not trying to make some comparison in severity of tackles, I'm backing up my point that Son "isn't that sort of player" with proof that he likes a late, deliberate stamp with the best of them.

 

I mean, he's not unique in the league for that. Plenty worse than him but he's not the wallflower some paint him as.

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27 minutes ago, Scruff said:

Not sure the point you're trying to make? I'm not trying to make some comparison in severity of tackles, I'm backing up my point that Son "isn't that sort of player" with proof that he likes a late, deliberate stamp with the best of them.

 

I mean, he's not unique in the league for that. Plenty worse than him but he's not the wallflower some paint him as.

 

My point is, I dont think your video backs that up. The way you described it as a stamp on the ankle doesn't quite align.

 

See Tyron Mings on Oliviera, that was a stamp!

 

Son is a competitive player, and he will give a bit to the opposition, but its hardly nasty, vindictive and deliberate forceful tackling that has went in with the intention of injuring somebody, this isnt two feet off the ground stuff or over the ball tackles half way up the shin. He tripped someone up who fell in a very unfortunate manner, nothing other than a freak accident. Again you will see these sort of tackles constantly throughout a match and nobody has batted an eyelid until now.

 

He is no wallflower but I also don't think he falls into the category of "That sort of player."

 

His reaction seemed nothing other than genuine to me.

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This 'not that sort of player' stuff crops up every time someone gets their leg broken and it's such an empty phrase. Martin Taylor. Ryan Shawcross. Neil Taylor. Always the same guff afterwards. "He's a good lad and he's absolutely gutted. There was no intention to seriously hurt anyone. He's not that sort of player."

 

Now I can see why people want to use the term to defend Son, because his foul was obviously not as forceful as a lot of those other incidents, and by current laws should probably have been a yellow card. But ultimately unless we are to believe there are psychopathic footballers who go around deliberately trying to break people's limbs, then it's completely meaningless. 'That sort of player' simply doesn't exist. Pleading that the severe consequences of these fouls weren't intentional is so obvious that it shouldn't need stating, and doesn't detract from the fact that they were reckless and, to varying degrees, endangered another player's safety.

 

Ultimately I think the best way to handle it is with harsher punishments for deliberate kicks or trips (and maybe even flagrant shirt pulls) with no intention of getting the ball. I can remember Xhaka getting sent off for something like that a couple of years ago, and I don't think there's anything wrong with it personally. I've already mentioned Guendouzi on Zaha, and there was one on Salah recently from I think Choudhury. And Son obviously. Just make things like that a red card in the laws.

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1 hour ago, The Fox said:

I've already mentioned Guendouzi on Zaha, and there was one on Salah recently from I think Choudhury.

 

Fully agree with reds for this sort of tackle. They were particularly outrageous examples, but to be honest I think any 'professional foul' ought to be a candidate. It's just outright cheating, that more often than not immediately follows some attacking play that deserves a reward, and it's ridiculous that basically every player gets one free pass to do this if necessary.

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They are all exactly that sort of player, just look at the tackles. I don't need Toby Pulis to tell me Ryan Shawcross is a good lad to know he is full of shit.

 

All of those tackles had a much larger chance of injuring a player, when they are all over the ball, head on, mid leg challenges. That's why that sort of challenge is a red card, because its very dangerous. 

 

This Son one was completely innocuous and there is a reason it is usually a yellow card because it is far less dangerous than all the examples above, how many of these fouls will you see every season across the world of top level football? And how many would result in an injury like that, not very many.

 

Imagine the rules did get changed, football is full of enough theatrics and waving of imaginary cards all ready with players trying to get each other sent off, you dont have to look far to see the worst example of that in Richarlison who spent the vast majority of the game rolling around on the floor in the same game. :lol:

 

People need to accept this for what is it, a freak incident.

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Shawcross and Taylor were that sort of player.  Overly forceful and reckless in the challenge, accidents waiting to happen.  There have always been a lot of players around who risk or risked causing serious injury to an opponent every time they stepped on the pitch.  You can tell which ones they are because they're always hugely popular with their team's supporters.  Lets face it, Keane, Gerrard, Terry - we've all had a few of them at out clubs.  Is Son one of those sort of players?  Of course not.  It was a horrible freak accident, as @Steely said.  If you're going to vilify Son, as a few in this thread have done (not particularly yourself @The Fox - I completely agree with your argument that all deliberate foul play should be dealt with more harshly) then you might as well blame John Arne Riise for hitting the free-kick that caused Alan Smith's horrific injury.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Steely said:

Imagine the rules did get changed, football is full of enough theatrics and waving of imaginary cards all ready with players trying to get each other sent off, you dont have to look far to see the worst example of that in Richarlison who spent the vast majority of the game rolling around on the floor in the same game. :lol:

 

People needs to accept this for what is it, a freak incident.

 

The same classy Richarlison that did the theatrics moments after seeing his team mate stretchered off with a horrific injury.Because he was trying to get another player sent off. 

 

I agree you cannot change the rules based on the outcome of an injury. What about Djibril Cisse on 2004? Jay McEverly ran across him, caught his leg and snapped it. Should he have been sent off? He wasn't even booked and rightly so, but according to some, he should have been sent off, because his actions endangered another players. 

 

You cannot react to the injury as a barometer for the action. Because that could leave potential leg breakers get off with a yellow and innocuous challenges you see 30 times a game get red carded and that is a dangerous thing for the sport. 

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