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Football Thread 2019/2020


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17 hours ago, skadupuk said:

 

"Underdogs" 

(Leicester would like a word...)

 

 


I think they mean scousers and the city in general, not the club. Even the staunchest LFC fan could never call the club the underdogs. 

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:angry:

 

Arsenal are making 55 people redundant. Fucking digusting. They are owned by someone worth £8.5bn and still expected to go and spend millions in the transfer market but they can't pay furlough wages for these people? People need helping right now, not binning off so you can save a small fraction of money. I know £2.5m is a lot of money technically but not for someone like Arsenal who will be spending more than that on their star strikers wages.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53668802

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Not to mention the small matter of one player who earns not alot less than that in a month despite not having turned up for a game in fuck knows how long

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It's disgusting Arsenal doing this now - many will be normal folks on normal wages and if clubs want to pretend they're more in the community they need to not pull this shit.

 

Then on top of that several of the redundancies are our scouting and data people - no need for them now we're cosy with Kia Jorabchian and can get Chelsea's old shit for vastly over inflated wages.

 

I've already decided they can keep their season tickets then the renewal comes thru.

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1 hour ago, wev said:

Not to mention the small matter of one player who earns not alot less than that in a month despite not having turned up for a game in fuck knows how long

 

He's earned £7.5m since his last full game and is due for another £18m until his contract runs out.  But who gave him that pay rise in the first place?  And it wasn't as if he was absolutely unsellable at the time he signed it.  (IIRC, it was a "statement signing" or something.)

 

There are a lot of bad contracts around.  Sanchez at Man Utd is another that springs to mind, Bale at Madrid is also an obvious choice.  It's interesting how footballers wages aren't really discussed and when they are, usually in terms that don't mean anything.  Ozil is on £350,000 a week.  I can't get my head around that number.  £18.2m a year, now that I can understand.

 

Adopting the US model around contracts would be interesting - Ozil signs for five years, £91m.

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I mean, he must be like fucking Scrooge McFrog, swimming in fucking coins. I say swimming, but I doubt he's got the physical strength, let alone the desire to exert the energy to fucking swim.

 

But yeah, fuck Arsenal (who I've "followed" or whatever you @neoELITEelite wants to label me as I'm not from London and have never been to Highbury nor the Emirates, since 1994), for making 55 people made redundant three fucking days after winning a trophy. How about they reduce the bonuses paid to the players instead? I'm sure they won't miss £2.5m split between them

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It’s so disappointing what Arsenal have been allowed to become. You can support the team but the club are becoming indefensible really. At this stage it’s like trying to justify the actions of Malmart or something. The brass neck of KSE’s claims they invested in the club by tweaking an existing loan deal. 
 

It’s a huge shame that we’ve binned off our scouting network too. Some of the people there have been amazing for us. Now we’ve got some dickhead lining his mate’s pockets by buying the Chelsea pensioners every summer. 

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Under Kroenke's ownership it was getting harder and harder for me to justify financially supporting the club, but these redundancies feel like the final straw.

 

Whoever is doing their PR or comms should be first on the list to go, to claim that these 55 redundancies (which may save wages of £2-3m on different assumptions) enable investing in the team is just madness. 

 

We've offered Willian, who turns 32 this week £10m signing on fee and £200k a week for 3 years. We paid millions to Southampton as a loan fee for an injured Soares who didn't even make their team. The 2 things simply aren't connected.

 

I'm not against players earning money but this leaves a really really bad taste.

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Coming out today that the players are unhappy, they took a 12.5% pay cut (which will have saved much more than these redundancies) after being given reassurances no-one else at the club would lose their jobs.

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5 minutes ago, Liamness said:

Coming out today that the players are unhappy, they took a 12.5% pay cut (which will have saved much more than these redundancies) after being given reassurances no-one else at the club would lose their jobs.

Ah that's really shitty if they gave those assurances.

 

Very disappointing from Arsenal.

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I can't imagine Arteta being that pleased. He's somehow managed to reach his hand into a big pile of shit and pull out an FA Cup, beginning to foster a sense of togetherness at a club that is a mess from top to bottom, and some tit comes along and wipes out any good feeling there was by doing this. If Willian signs before the weekend there will be a riot.

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I was going to say that I thought the players had taken pay cuts.

 

I'm not going to blame players - not even Ozil - for taking money that clubs are offering them.  I don't blame Willian for accepting the terms described above.  What I am wondering is why he is being offered those terms (£41.2m for three years).  He's an excellent player but there isn't exactly a massive queue for his services, plus we are heading into a depressed transfer market anyway.  He's in no position to negotiate really and this feels like Peter Ridsdale / Seth Johnson all over again.

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18 minutes ago, Plissken said:

I was going to say that I thought the players had taken pay cuts.

 

I'm not going to blame players - not even Ozil - for taking money that clubs are offering them.  I don't blame Willian for accepting the terms described above.  What I am wondering is why he is being offered those terms (£41.2m for three years).  He's an excellent player but there isn't exactly a massive queue for his services, plus we are heading into a depressed transfer market anyway.  He's in no position to negotiate really and this feels like Peter Ridsdale / Seth Johnson all over again.

 

Why not? It's still a sellers market, regardless of the overall impact on finances in current circumstances and, clearly, if he's been offered those terms then he very much has negotiated. It's like grumbles from Man Utd over Dortmund's price for Sancho being too high make me laugh, because Dortmund don't particularly want to sell so why should they drop the price?

 

None of this takes away from the fact that Arsenal are showing a real contempt for their employees and it's awful. Even if they perform a u-turn though, would you really want to continue working for a club that needs to be publicly shamed into not treating you like crap? If it were me I'd take the view that it would be a stay of execution and they'd probably do it a bit more quietly down the line instead, out of the public eye.

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The important difference between Willian and Sancho is that the former is a free agent.

 

He also appears to be negotiating with a number of suitors that is numbered less than two.

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17 minutes ago, Gabe said:

 

It's like grumbles from Man Utd over Dortmund's price for Sancho being too high make me laugh, because Dortmund don't particularly want to sell so why should they drop the price?

 

I've been enjoying that too, the idea that clubs won't do what Man Utd want is scandalous.  Sancho would be worth an extra 5 - 10 penalties a season for United!

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1 hour ago, Plissken said:

The important difference between Willian and Sancho is that the former is a free agent.

 

He also appears to be negotiating with a number of suitors that is numbered less than two.

 

Well the Sancho bit was more to address the whole 'depressed transfer market' in that it's the buying clubs that generally are making the noises because they don't want to pay as much - but if clubs don't want to sell, then it's largely irrelevant to what the market is doing. By extension, would Ake, as a player in a relegated team, really have gone for more than £40m pre-COVID? I don't think so.

 

Whilst Willian's scenario is different, I still don't really understand what you are trying to say with "he's in no position to negotiate" because of course he is, Arsenal aren't being bullied into offering silly money, they could just walk away. Ergo, he can - and is, very successfully it would seem,  negotiate the best deal for him. Besides, aren't Chelsea still trying to keep him?

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Yeah for a reasonable wage I can’t actually think of any Premier League teams that wouldn’t want Willian? He would be great back up for Liverpool for instance, if he could be picked up on the cheap. So he is going to push for the best deal he can get. Arsenal are not a top team atm so he is not going to go there for the trophies or the love of the club, he’ll go because he’s offered the most.

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Dortmund are well known as a selling club, it's their whole financial model and the fact that they will let a player go to a bigger club, for a chunky but not world record fee, ensures that the likes of Haaland and Bellingham will sign for them in the first place. If they take the Palace/Zaha approach here then they dry up their pipeline.

 

So they can go via the press all they want about not letting Sancho go for any less than £100m paid upfront etc but everybody knows he's going to Utd, they're just ironing out the details.

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It's a lot of money for someone with no resale value and who's output is on the wain. Feel like we've been there and done that enough. Just another massive wage for a humdrum player that will only be shifted once he retires. 

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24 minutes ago, Gotters said:

Dortmund are well known as a selling club, it's their whole financial model and the fact that they will let a player go to a bigger club, for a chunky but not world record fee, ensures that the likes of Haaland and Bellingham will sign for them in the first place. If they take the Palace/Zaha approach here then they dry up their pipeline.

 

So they can go via the press all they want about not letting Sancho go for any less than £100m paid upfront etc but everybody knows he's going to Utd, they're just ironing out the details.

 

Of course, but that would be true with or without COVID - I just find it amusing Man U coming out and crying about the pandemic meaning Dortmund should automatically drop the price for <reasons>.

 

That said, I doubt Dortmund would be unhappy keeping him for at least another 6 months/season rather than selling him for a lesser price than they actually want - if nothing else, he'd probably be good for Jude Bellingham to be around.

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All the noise over Sancho is just a bargaining tactic.  They're threatening to walk away if the price doesn't get more reasonable, closer to United's valuation.  I don't know why this is being interpreted as crying and moaning.  

 

I'm not saying it's a good negotiating tactic or anything - United have been terrible at this sort of thing since David Gill left the club.  As @Gotters said, Dortmund are set up to create stars and sell them, so United know that there is a willingness to sell, possibly even a necessity, as we don't know how Dortmund's finances have been hit by Covid.  United might be trying to to use similar tactics as they did when buying Fernandes, when they walked away for six months, and the price mysteriously came down to what they wanted to pay.  This turned out to be a really clever way to nearly wreck the season and cost the club a huge number of points when you consider how good they were after signing Fernandes in January and how crap they were before.  

 

You have to consider that perhaps United might be better off walking away, making Greenwood the starter in that position (is Sancho objectively an upgrade on him?  At this point, probably just about, but Greenwood will quite possibly be better in the long run) signing a back-up for a cheaper fee and spending the rest on a defensive midfielder that's a long-term replacement for Matic, and a quick centre-back to partner Maguire.

 

I personally think none of the above will happen.  Woodward will stand firm on the price the club are willing to pay, and waste the whole summer faffing around, before getting distracted by a hail-mary bid for someone completely ridiculous (like Dybala last year) running out of time to actually address the areas we need improving, and eventually signing someone overpriced in a position we don't need and recalling Smalling and pretending that's like a new signing.  I wouldn't put it past the club to put in a last-minute panic bid for Sanchez. 

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I'm surprised that people still put such stock in the paper headlines that are clearly leaked from interested parties - it's never hard to work out where the leak is coming from.

 

Utd and Dortmund aren't both sat in a hotel somewhere meeting for hours both threatening to walk away from the table unless something ludicrous happens right this very second (see also Brexit talks with the EU).

 

in other news 5 subs been voted out back to 3 for the upcoming season in the PL.

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36 minutes ago, Gotters said:

I'm surprised that people still put such stock in the paper headlines that are clearly leaked from interested parties - it's never hard to work out where the leak is coming from.

 

Ed Woodward has 3 reporters who he likes likes to give info to. In exchange for this direct line they seemingly have to post reports about how Man Utd might walk away, how a deal isn't close or whatever whenever he tells them to. They often all post very similar stories along these lines on Twitter within minutes of each other. It happened with Bruno, Maguire, AWB, Sanchez, Pogba and probably goes further back than that.

 

It's now got to the point where Man Utd fans get excited to see these reporters (Simon Stone, Simon Peach and someone else who isn't called Simon) talk negatively about a potential transfer because it means it's probably really close to actually happening.

 

Regarding Sancho, we all know it's happening and we all know we'll be paying what Dortmund asked for on day 1. Apparently the discussions are around how it's structured with Man Utd pushing for more installments and bonuses rather than playing more upfront. 

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John Stones £50m, Kyle Walker £50m, Aymeric Laporte £57m.    City got Ake quite cheaply - especially considering Bournemouth didn't have to sell and Chelsea had a sell-on clause.

 

Yes, Willian would be good for most teams but Arsenals opening bid - if Gotters is right - is so ludicrously over the top that everyone else has decided not even to try.  Which commits both Willian and Arsenal, ironically enough.

 

Leaving aside the question of whether he really is the player Man Utd need right now*, the noise around Sancho is creating the narrative to satisfy each fanbase.  Dortmund pushed to sell their best player for £lots, United getting their man against a smaller club who don't want to lose a valuable asset.  Everyone wins.

 

 

*He isn't.

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