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12 Minutes


bradigor
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Because it tries to ascribe faults of the game to the player. That you don't think moving the sofa, or asking the wife to hide/ not give you away, are logical (which I find hard to believe, especially when compared to the actual solutions) doesn't make player's expectations that they should be able to do those things unreasonable.

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45 minutes ago, therearerules said:

Because it tries to ascribe faults of the game to the player. That you don't think moving the sofa, or asking the wife to hide/ not give you away, are logical (which I find hard to believe, especially when compared to the actual solutions) doesn't make player's expectations that they should be able to do those things unreasonable.

The sofa really is a biggie isn’t it ;) 

 

I didn’t think it was illogical that she screamed for help when being tied up and assaulted though, tbh, no matter how much you might convince her you’re in a time loop. And where would she hide?

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I don't think you get that it doesn't matter if those things would work, giving the player agency to try them is what's important. Although the purpose of a time loop game is to see what happens and then recreate, so the obvious answer would be to pretend to be asleep.

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1 hour ago, therearerules said:

I don't think you get that it doesn't matter if those things would work, giving the player agency to try them is what's important. Although the purpose of a time loop game is to see what happens and then recreate, so the obvious answer would be to pretend to be asleep.

Yeah I get it, don’t worry, it would just be quite a different game. 

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It’s no more than a walking simulator. You have no agency and are being led down a ridiculously prescriptive path. There’s no independence of logical thinking, you must conform to the creator’s logic. 
 

Trying to dress it up as anything more than that is piffle. Scribblenauts had more creativity, intelligence and nuance than this. I’m glad I played through it but it’s a terrible disappointment. 
 

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52 minutes ago, Stopharage said:

It’s no more than a walking simulator. You have no agency and are being led down a ridiculously prescriptive path. There’s no independence of logical thinking, you must conform to the creator’s logic. 

Sounds a bit like Dragon's Lair.

 

EDIT: in fact, I just read this on the Dragon's Lair wikipedia page:

Quote

A perfect run with no deaths lasts no more than 12 minutes

 

:o

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I would also flag up the Sexy Brutale (£3.50 on PlayStation), which I completed last night and absolutely loved. Loads of murders to solve, each requires using the timeloop to record their movements, causes of death, and then working out how to intervene. Much more restrictive in terms of what you can interact with, but makes excellent use of the looping mechanic.

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I ended up finishing it yesterday.

 

to be honest i was really enjoying it up until 

Spoiler

the twist. It was just shock value. The games ending sucked hard and because of the several endings, you don't even know what the heck is going on. Why does the father and the "cop" have the same voice? It just was messy and how did this guy not remember he killed his father and that his sister was his wife? Did he get brain damage? Maybe that would explain some of his actions in the game.

 

I would love to see another game like this, done properly though.

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Spoiler

He never did any of it. It's essentially an it was all a dream ending as the entire thing was bascially an elaborate J. Walter Weatherman scenario from Arrested Development to stop him fucking his sister using hypnosis.

 

I remember when we were tasked with writing a short piece of fiction in comp and the teacher warned that anyone who ended with it was all some kind of fantasy would receive an automatic fail grade.

 

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19 hours ago, Wiper said:

I'm going to be extremely unfair here, and suggest that the generally mixed-but-positive critical response to Twelve Minutes* reflects that a solid portion of games critics aren't particularly expert at critiquing writing and storytelling, and apportion an awful lot of value in such matters to basic character emoting. As in, having actors delivering their lines in a compelling manner, irrespective of the content of those lines, is enough in and of itself to guarantee a positive reception.

 

(this is certainly the only way I can reconcile myself with the fact that, say, Beyond or Detroit received any scores above a 4/10)

 

I’d go further and say that basic/moderate writing competence (convincing dialogue, maybe a vague theme or something) is often enough to get a game talked about like it’s Walden or something. Critics are so keen to find Artistic Worthiness in their medium, they overpraise games that have the *appearance* of Artistic Worthiness and don’t really bother to go into whether it’s actually good/successful/profound or anything. Bioshock’s “exploration” of objectivism springs to mind. 

 

(also Edith Finch cough cough oh is that the time must be going now)

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1 hour ago, Darhkwing said:

I ended up finishing it yesterday.

 

to be honest i was really enjoying it up until 

  Hide contents

the twist. It was just shock value. The games ending sucked hard and because of the several endings, you don't even know what the heck is going on. Why does the father and the "cop" have the same voice? It just was messy and how did this guy not remember he killed his father and that his sister was his wife? Did he get brain damage? Maybe that would explain some of his actions in the game.

 

I would love to see another game like this, done properly though.

 

There's a further ending which reveals

 

Spoiler

that for the duration of the game you're actually being hypnotised by the father to stop you from continuing your relationship with his daughter, who is also your half-sister. The father never got murdered, the cop doesn't exist, you don't live in an apartment with a sofa welded to the floor.

 

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4 hours ago, PK said:

 

There's a further ending which reveals

 

  Hide contents

that for the duration of the game you're actually being hypnotised by the father to stop you from continuing your relationship with his daughter, who is also your half-sister. The father never got murdered, the cop doesn't exist, you don't live in an apartment with a sofa welded to the floor.

 

 

WTF

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4 hours ago, dumpster said:

Hiya!

 

Just popped in to say I really hated everything about this game. Every. Single. Thing. 

 

Cheerio!


Thats how you rllmuk. 😂 

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I feel compelled to elaborate. I hated everything about it.  Because I love time loop stuff, so I had high hopes for this.

 

The first loop is good.  Interesting. Atmospheric.  Intriguing plot.  But then on the second loop you find yourself clicking everything because you know you have a limited time until the cop turns up.  If you don't discover anything or nothing different happens then it just becomes repetitive and tedious.  And the puzzles are boring and there are so many endings and how many times are we supposed to want to see this 12 minute loop anyway? In timeloop movies, each loop presents considerable changes to the previous one, or there's 2 of each character.  On this each time loop feels much the same as the last.  

 

But all of that pales into insignificance when you consider how much of the budget must have been spent on the voice actors. Because it says Willem Dafoe and Daisy Ridley, and they're famous people aren't they? But let's be honest, is it them really? Is the game better because it's got famous people doing the voices?  Would you have known about the famous voice actors if you haven't read the credits at the start? Those voices could be anybody. It's hardly an oscar-winning performance.

 

I know this game isnt aimed at me. I like Sega Rally and EDF.  But I like a good story, loved Deadly Premonition, Heavy Rain etc. And this... It seems to, I dunno, just be a complete waste of everyone's time. And there's just something about paying for an all star cast and then under-utilizing them so much, whilst the script is so basic and amateur. Its a rubbish plot and story.  It's almost offensive. I hate it, really really hate it. 

 

 

 

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Heavy Rain was a bunch of shallow clichés cribbed from earlier, more original works, that was poorly written. Like the Harry Potter books.

 

The only difference is that I'm not sure if David Cage is a centrist, Tory-enabling, transphobic neoliberal. But I'm happy to concede that he definitely is purely on the strength of his artistic output. You'd like to imagine that anyway, wouldn't you - rather than the opposite? I don't think I could take another Reverse Morrissey at this point in history.

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“Juggling time to create positive chained outcomes”

 

On 24/08/2021 at 07:22, footle said:

but how?

 

Obra Dinn has you travelling through time as an observer, so if you could do that while also making small changes (or a lot together), and then jump around the timeline to see their progressive effects. Iterating your way to one successful outcome of many, with a guide showing the most and least optimised.

 

12 MacGyvers

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I've been looking forward to this game for 5 or 6 years but it's dawned on me there's no real reason to play this when there's a Youtube gameplay ending video out there.

 

This isn't about gameplay. It's an absolutely terrible 'game'. It's all about the story but it's absolutely mind numbing advancing one step at a time to have to restart the whole process each time. It plays out more like a film than a game.

 

I have more thoughts but i'm drunk (and I still didnt have the patience to play it).

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Back in the late 80's as part of studying drama our class went to see a play, I think by David Williamson. It was edgy and shocking. Especially this one scene. This guy kicks his pregnant wife in the belly before shouting at her calling her "a fucking c---t!"

 

The audience at the time all gasped, not at the kicking of a pregnant woman but the use of a word that at the time was one that could get you arrested if you used it in public. But that scene is the only thing I remember about that play. I suspect that the part I'll remember from 12 Minutes is 

Spoiler

William Dafoe kicking the shit out of Daisy Ridley before shooting her while I hid in the cupboard.

 

And that turned out to be the thing to drive the plot forward. 

 

I was kind of hoping for something creative as the text adventure Aisle by Sam Barlow (a game where you are in a supermarket and have one move before the game ends.) A game that was set in a very limited space and timescale. Or maybe it would be as charming and mind bending as Ghost Trick. (Capcom, publish this on modern platforms you cowards.)

 

I had a lot of fun in picking up everything in the apartment. In taking all the cake and eating it all by myself. But I had an inkling that it was the nastier solutions that might drive the story onwards and the bit in my spoiler text plus some other spoilers seem to indicate that this is correct. And it sounds like the story just doesn't justify it. I'd rather play Ghost Trick again, or try The Sexy Brutale (which languishes in my Steam library) or even watch Looper than spend any more time with this.

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Decided to finish my time with this game by watching an 1h40 Youtube playthrough at 1.5x playback.

 

This was such a disappointment.

 

The story was absolute

Spoiler

twisty trash. What was the significance of specifically 12 minutes?

 

Spoiler

I'd assumed throughout that the pocket watch would be a cliche but enjoyable trope of being able to manually change time and therefore may be skip through repeating actions and waiting but it turns out the watch is totally insignificant. I think.

 

Spoiler

The voice acting was totally fine but it was pointless. Many other capable voice actors could have done a fine job, at presumably a cheaper rate but these actors were clearly bought in for PR to sell this game.

 

Spoiler

The writing doesn't deserve or need top tier actors. The engine/game doesn't warrant it when it's bolting two wildly differently emotional lines together.

 

 

 

Fuck this game.

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I completed this last night, and I'm genuinely surprised it's got such a slating on here - I enjoyed it quite a lot, although it's deeply flawed. The interface is clumsy, especially at the start; the time loop mechanics result in the the actual game hitting the buffers on occasion, with jarring shifts from one dialogue tree to another; the ending is pretty silly and not especially satisfying. But for all that, I found it very compelling going through each loop, testing and experimenting and gradually finding out new information to reuse on my next run - the sensation of getting a load of new stuff, whether it's a name, a phone number, or a physical object, was absolutely thrilling.

 

The plot was melodramatic in the extreme, but I thought that worked quite well for this kind of story, whereby the series of layered revelations works well with the repeated loop structure, always giving you a new chunk of information to work with next time. The ending didn't really work or make much sense, but the journey there was satisfying, as I tried to put the handful of actions, items, and pieces of information together in new ways, and again, the I loved thrill of discovering something new and getting a whole new set of potential things to try out.

 

I didn't find the puzzles obscure or obtuse at all, it all seemed fairly logical, and there were loads of hints in the dialogue - people have compared it to point & click adventures, but the puzzles here were nowhere near as random as the ones in your average nineties graphic adventure. If anything, while the UI reminded me of point & click adventures, the actual game was very reminiscent of the tiny sub-genre of murder mystery text adventures you got in the eighties - stuff like Deadline or Moonmist, where there's a very limited number of locations, and rather than progressing through the game by physically exploring and mapping those locations, you progress by exploring and mapping out the information you receive, whether that's people's backstories or their movements over the time period the game takes place in.

 

Again, it's far from perfect, and somebody should have talked the developers away from that stupid ending, but I found a lot to enjoy here (despite a lot of it being quite harrowing).  The fact that it's so short (I started it on Sunday night, and completed it in two sessions) means I can forgive a lot of its problems - it feels like an experimental episode of a TV programme that doesn't quite work as whole, but has some clever ideas. 

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2 hours ago, K said:

I completed this last night, and I'm genuinely surprised it's got such a slating on here - I enjoyed it quite a lot, although it's deeply flawed. The interface is clumsy, especially at the start; the time loop mechanics result in the the actual game hitting the buffers on occasion, with jarring shifts from one dialogue tree to another; the ending is pretty silly and not especially satisfying. But for all that, I found it very compelling going through each loop, testing and experimenting and gradually finding out new information to reuse on my next run - the sensation of getting a load of new stuff, whether it's a name, a phone number, or a physical object, was absolutely thrilling.

 

The plot was melodramatic in the extreme, but I thought that worked quite well for this kind of story, whereby the series of layered revelations works well with the repeated loop structure, always giving you a new chunk of information to work with next time. The ending didn't really work or make much sense, but the journey there was satisfying, as I tried to put the handful of actions, items, and pieces of information together in new ways, and again, the I loved thrill of discovering something new and getting a whole new set of potential things to try out.

 

I didn't find the puzzles obscure or obtuse at all, it all seemed fairly logical, and there were loads of hints in the dialogue - people have compared it to point & click adventures, but the puzzles here were nowhere near as random as the ones in your average nineties graphic adventure. If anything, while the UI reminded me of point & click adventures, the actual game was very reminiscent of the tiny sub-genre of murder mystery text adventures you got in the eighties - stuff like Deadline or Moonmist, where there's a very limited number of locations, and rather than progressing through the game by physically exploring and mapping those locations, you progress by exploring and mapping out the information you receive, whether that's people's backstories or their movements over the time period the game takes place in.

 

Again, it's far from perfect, and somebody should have talked the developers away from that stupid ending, but I found a lot to enjoy here (despite a lot of it being quite harrowing).  The fact that it's so short (I started it on Sunday night, and completed it in two sessions) means I can forgive a lot of its problems - it feels like an experimental episode of a TV programme that doesn't quite work as whole, but has some clever ideas. 

 

I've finished it today and agree with pretty much all of this.

 

WTF are the Dragon's Lair comparisons in this thread?

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