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12 Minutes


bradigor
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41 minutes ago, BadgerFarmer said:

I hadn't really considered what it must be like to play it with a controller. It's absolutely a mouse game.

 

Reading the last couple of pages, it seems that Gamepass can be a curse of sorts for games when they don't give off a good first impression or, in this case, have an intentionally frustrating structure. Too easy to dump.

Would you have continued with it if you weren’t reviewing it?

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15 minutes ago, JPL said:

I wish!

 

I’m not really sure why I’ve never played a point and click before. Maybe because I’ve never owned a PC and I’ve only ever used Macs since I started working.

They’ve been available on consoles for ages, the Broken Sword series had simultaneous releases going back to the original PlayStation. 

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Point and clicks, or adventure games as we called them in ye olde days, are great. Swearing off the genre because of 12 Minutes is like saying you’re never going to watch another superhero movie because you made the mistake of starting with Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice.

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4 minutes ago, Stanley said:

They’ve been available on consoles for ages, the original Broken Swords had simultaneous releases going back to the original PlayStation. 

I honestly don’t know then!

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2 minutes ago, Harsin said:

Point and clicks, or adventure games as we called them in ye olde days, are great. Swearing off the genre because of 12 Minutes is like saying you’re never going to watch another superhero movie because you made the mistake of starting with Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice.

I might have been exaggerating a touch, but it’s not been a good first impression. I can tell you that.

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2 minutes ago, Harsin said:

Point and clicks, or adventure games as we called them in ye olde days, are great. Swearing off the genre because of 12 Minutes is like saying you’re never going to watch another superhero movie because you made the mistake of starting with Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice.

Or never watching any movie ever again because you found Groundhog Day frustrating and walked out half way through. 

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26 minutes ago, Stanley said:

It’s definitely something they should consider fixing ASAP, as at the moment it just feels like a really careless omission not to configure the controls properly for a controller, because as you say when the gameplay is frustrating by design then everything else needs to be bang on point.

 

Looking at it positively I did use logic to uncover a few more clues, so the things I were thinking of did work, I didn’t find it as trial and error as some have, or as incongruous.

  Reveal hidden contents

After a couple of loops knowing what happens I hid in the closet, but the wife saw me. Next time I hid in there before she entered the room - I figured she wouldn’t know I was in there because she said in an earlier loop “I didn’t hear you come in” - and yeah I stood watching through the slats as she was murdered but I knew I had to do something to break the loop, and my characters breathing became heavier, so I didn’t feel like a psycho or anything. I also knew the cop wouldn’t find me in there because why would her husband be hiding in a closet without any foreknowledge of the cop arriving? 

 So there is a logic to it, certainly enough for me not to give up just yet. 

 

 

Aye, I dont think I'm gonna give up just yet either. But if it gets the point where I have to keep looking stuff up I don't think I'd bother carrying on. We'll see how it goes.

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2 minutes ago, Stigweard said:

 

 

Aye, I dont think I'm gonna give up just yet either. But if it gets the point where I have to keep looking stuff up I don't think I'd bother carrying on. We'll see how it goes.

Yep that might be a deal breaker for me too. I think it’s the kind of game you actually need to turn off and think about every now and then, better played in small chunks. I certainly reached my tolerance point with it last night so did just that, but now I’m thinking about it enough to want to continue, so it’s doing something right. 

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1 hour ago, Stanley said:

Or never watching any movie ever again because you found Groundhog Day frustrating and walked out half way through. 


Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you history’s greatest monster.

 

 

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2 hours ago, JPL said:

Would you have continued with it if you weren’t reviewing it?

Good question. In a way, it feels better suited to reviewing conditions, where it's got your full focus and you need to get through it (edit: and you can't look up solutions). Gamepass is the opposite of that.

 

But I would say that, although it didn't make a good first impression on me either, I was intrigued enough by the premise to see where it would go. Because it's a bit different and begins with so little direction, I found that more enticing. So I think it's likely, yes.

 

Another thing about the point n click discussion - I never really liked the genre very much. Machinarium is one of the only ones I got on with. So this must have done something right to hold my attention. 

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I’d been looking forward to this but after giving it about an hour I’ve had to uninstall. 

 Interesting idea executed badly - will watch a run through on YouTube - less annoying and can skip ahead easily. 

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I've never seen such disparity between Steam rating and forum feedback.

 

I'm with you guys - it's absolutely tedious. This will teach me to never be excited about anything every again. 

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47 minutes ago, BadgerFarmer said:

Good question. In a way, it feels better suited to reviewing conditions, where it's got your full focus and you need to get through it. Gamepass is the opposite of that.

 

But I would say that, although it didn't make a good first impression on me either, I was intrigued enough by the premise to see where it would go. Because it's a bit different and begins with so little direction, I found that more enticing. So I think it's likely, yes.

 

Another thing about the point n click discussion - I never really liked the genre very much. Machinarium is one of the only ones I got on with. So this must have done something right to hold my attention. 

I’m definitely intrigued by the premise and mystery of the pocket watch, but it’s so badly executed I just can’t muster the enthusiasm to carry on.

 

I was only joking really about never playing a point and click again because of this, but I don’t think it’s a genre I’ll get much out of. It feels antiquated and gaming has moved on. Never say never though. Someone might find a way to make a modern version work.

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52 minutes ago, BadgerFarmer said:

Good question. In a way, it feels better suited to reviewing conditions, where it's got your full focus and you need to get through it (edit: and you can't look up solutions). Gamepass is the opposite of that.

We won't get the details, but it'd be interesting how many people who buy it on Steam choose to refund it because, as you say yourself, it doesn't give a great first impression.

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19 minutes ago, Harsin said:

I’ve been itching to see what other people think of the story, because bugger me it’s dumb as rocks.

 

Spoiler

Watching the wife getting beaten up and killed whilst he just stood watching in the wardrobe was so dumb. I'm kinda interested to see just how dumber it can get.

 

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This was my most anticipated game of the year, and a large part of why I aimed to complete Hades by Wednesday. I'm a massive fan of visual novels, time loops, and point and click games, so this should have been right up my street. And I found it just didn't work at all.

 

A large part of that I put at the feet of hiring hollywood voice actors. You've got 2 tools in this game, talking and object interaction. Given it's the same 12 minutes over and over again, those things should spiral out into wonderfully different situations and discussions. But everything is so limited, and I believe it's because the cost to actually having all the possible iterations play out would be too expensive for the dialogue required. I'd expect something from flushing the spoons down the toilet. I'd expect my wife not to stare blankly at me whilst I build up the courage to stab myself in the stomach. I'd expect to be able to remove the paintings if I know something's hidden in the house. I'd expect to be able to push the sofa in front of the door, or convince my wife to not give away my location, of defend myself with 100% preknowledge and a knife. For this to work there needs to be hundreds of different ways the 12 minutes can go, but that's impossible with that cast.

 

As for the story, big old spoilers, but basically it doesn't make sense:

 

Spoiler

So I get we're being hypnotised by the dad to make us not want to marry the daughter. But before the hypnosis we know we're brother and sister, so the whole hypnosis shows us that if we do get married we'll be extremely happy until a crooked cop (played by the dad) murders us to pay for his daughter's medical bills after we kill our father. None of which makes a lick of sense in trying to persuade people not to love each other, but what does work in separating us is revealing we're brother and sister- something we already knew long before the hypnosis. Just absolute shite.

 

This year's Farenheit. God knows how they spent 6 years on this, it feels like an underboiled game jam demo.

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I was quite enjoying it at first and getting somewhere, but having to do everything over and over to try something different later on became incredibly frustrating and not actually any fun. 
 

So, I’ve given up after an hour.. I started to watch a play through on YouTube, but I found that too boring to watch too. 
 

I never gave up on Monkey Island back in the day, eventually I got past a bit I was stuck on by trying the breath mints on everything! Don’t think I would have persisted if I’d had to start again every time though :lol

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As has been mentioned - the decision to go with big names instead of cheaper voice talent probably hindered the amount of options they could do. Big stars ask for big money after all. 
 This means the performances lack any variety and things that you feel should produce a reaction don’t. 
 Another case of a developer seeing the buzz from the early trailer and losing perspective. 

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15 minutes ago, Paulando said:

I’ve not played it yet, but all of these thoughts are disappointing. It was such an interesting but obvious concept it made you wonder why nobody had tried it before… now we probably know why. Very tricky to get right.


The thing with time loop media is that one of the things that plays heavily into it the frustration of the subject (usually after a period of confusion, then having fun playing with the concept of no consequences) of being trapped in the loop and the sheer mundanity of constantly repeating events. But, crucially, the audience don't that, they just get the edited version that's enough to sympathise with the character (usually using a montage). Bill Murray meeting Needlenose Ned every morning is funny, not so much if we had to watch 3 hours of it on a loop. Here you're the one has to endure doing the same actions and listen to the same conversations again and again and again.

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