Elden Ring - Shadow of the Erdtree Expansion Announced

[MardiganX]

On 05/10/2022 at 16:44, Oz said:

Look! I got good at fighting these guys! (so satisfying)

 

I know this may seem like a ridiculous question but how are you using the ashes of war attack and your shield gets put on your back? I have to switch my shield away before I can use the left trigger ashes skills ok my sword. Right?

 

Right?!!!

[MardiganX]

@df0 I thought I was reading an ‘every From game ever except Sekiro’ post from myself there. I’m in love with Elden Ring because it’s been the usual From formula but wide open and more varied in the options it gives me to be good at melee fighting. But it sounds like that evaporates as you reach the end and the old painful, soul crushing corridors of hell return, and return hard.

 

I hope to fuck I don’t get to the point you are at now and hit that wall, as I usually hit it relatively early and then don’t feel so terrible for not finishing the game.

 

For context, story wise I’m in Stormveil and working in Godric right now (which I assume is still fairly early on even though I’ve explored loads of other areas?) and it’s all glorious… but I will never forget that the capability to be boring and excruciating to play could be just around the corner 

[Oz]

9 minutes ago, MardiganX said:

I know this may seem like a ridiculous question but how are you using the ashes of war attack and your shield gets put on your back? I have to switch my shield away before I can use the left trigger ashes skills ok my sword. Right?

 

Right?!!!

That particular shield does not have an ash of war itself so you use the one associated with your right hand weapon. You can also buy from the war shack vendor a ‘nothing’ ash of war which you can put in any shield which would take an ash to achieve the same effect. 

[MardiganX]

4 minutes ago, Oz said:

That particular shield does not have an ash of war itself so you use the one associated with your right hand weapon. You can also buy from the war shack vendor a ‘nothing’ ash of war which you can put in any shield which would take an ash to achieve the same effect. 

Fuuuuuuuck. So if I just put my shield as having no ash equipped, so remove storm wall, then I can do whatever skill my sword has? Amazing. I can’t wait to start using it badly but looking awesome right before I die

[df0]

10 hours ago, Lying Cat said:

 

The Capital is actually one of my favourite video game 'areas' in years and years. The visual design is a hard juxtaposition compared to the rest of the game and for the most part it leaves me with a sense of deep, strange uneasiness - that the ruling classes and those wealthy enough to actually live there lived strange and quite alien lives compared to the rest of the people. I think it's an absolutely spectacular piece of design and while I've not opened the game in a few months now, even just thinking about it gives me chills.

 

I'm not really sure what I want you to do with this information, obviously - your opinion is just as valid as mine. I guess I just felt the need to stick up for a section of the game I thought was just fabulous (dahling).

All points I agree with. The visual story telling is fantastic in all of those places (the part beyond the Haligtree is equally as excellent.

Tis the gameplay part where it completely fails for me.

 

Maybe this illustrates it better: some of my favourite bosses are Loretta, Ape and Monk (Sekiro). Those fights I understand, I can "read" the situation and react accordingly. Not at a 100% success rate of course, but it's high enough for me to know I messed up when I died. The vast majority of ER bosses are the exact opposite of that, I despise fights like Maliketh, last boss (camera issues ahoy) and others I'll not name due to spoilers. I've no clue what the heck is going on, too much random shit on screen. And everything hurts like hell. Like many I replayed the remake of Demon's Souls and it took me by surprise how effective combat information is delivered to the player.

 

@MardiganXDon't let my old-man-complaining ruin your experience, I don't think I ever really liked ER to begin with and years and years of SoulsBorne left me burned out.

[Hawklord]

I've triple dipped on this now so I can play on my Steam Deck lol

 

Decided to do something different and followed one of the many YT vids that get you OP early as I couldn't be arsed with the grind. So, now I'm an Astrologer with the Sword of Night & Flame. I did have that in a previous run but I didn't have the stats for it and by the time I did, I already had Blasphemous Blade!

 

Will be interesting to see how it performs as it's been nerfed since I last tried it. Should still be OP for a good bit of the game hopefully

[Oz]

51 minutes ago, df0 said:

All points I agree with. The visual story telling is fantastic in all of those places (the part beyond the Haligtree is equally as excellent.

Tis the gameplay part where it completely fails for me.

 

Maybe this illustrates it better: some of my favourite bosses are Loretta, Ape and Monk (Sekiro). Those fights I understand, I can "read" the situation and react accordingly. Not at a 100% success rate of course, but it's high enough for me to know I messed up when I died. The vast majority of ER bosses are the exact opposite of that, I despise fights like Maliketh, last boss (camera issues ahoy) and others I'll not name due to spoilers. I've no clue what the heck is going on, too much random shit on screen. And everything hurts like hell. Like many I replayed the remake of Demon's Souls and it took me by surprise how effective combat information is delivered to the player.

 

@MardiganXDon't let my old-man-complaining ruin your experience, I don't think I ever really liked ER to begin with and years and years of SoulsBorne left me burned out.

 

yeh you know you are not wrong. I have not even finished yet and have not met those bosses you are referring to. but I have noticed what you are saying. sometimes I can't quite tell what is going on and I am almost playing it like a rhythm game with my eyes closed just following the rhythm for when I expect the enemy to attack, rather than being able to identify the "tell" in the boss move set (see video evidence below) The thing is there are so many more tools to use here that you end up finding a way. I think this one expects you to summon and use magic and use other things so they need to design the boss so that it provides a challenge to any version of your character. Then the boss ends up becoming a big of a mess of skills and movements. The rolling attack from the fat monk is the worse offender I have seen so far. Still this game stands tall far above sekiro or demon souls in just scope and sense of discovery. so much so that it is almost not a fair comparison anymore even though they were both made by From.

 

Spoiler

 

 

[rgraves]

56 minutes ago, df0 said:

Maybe this illustrates it better: some of my favourite bosses are Loretta, Ape and Monk (Sekiro). Those fights I understand, I can "read" the situation and react accordingly. Not at a 100% success rate of course, but it's high enough for me to know I messed up when I died. The vast majority of ER bosses are the exact opposite of that, I despise fights like Maliketh, last boss (camera issues ahoy) and others I'll not name due to spoilers. I've no clue what the heck is going on, too much random shit on screen. And everything hurts like hell. Like many I replayed the remake of Demon's Souls and it took me by surprise how effective combat information is delivered to the player.

 

This doesn't really stand-up when you see the youtube vides of people owning the bosses and game though - it's totally not random and it's perfectly possible to get to a point where you can play the whole game without getting hit, jsut using your fists, jsut using a summon, at lvl 1 etc etc.

 

I know that comes across as a bit 'git gud', but that is kind of the point - it's not random and it is entirely possible to go through the game in total control. I personally can't, but other people can and do.

[Oz]

Hey look what I found yesterday! I am just in love with this. It took me a long time to get to it but I am so glad I finally gave it a go. 
 

Spoiler

 

[MardiganX]

3 hours ago, Oz said:

That particular shield does not have an ash of war itself so you use the one associated with your right hand weapon. You can also buy from the war shack vendor a ‘nothing’ ash of war which you can put in any shield which would take an ash to achieve the same effect. 

 

How do you prevent yourself from doing a normal parry on L2 then? I have removed the ashes of war from my shield but now doing standard parry instead of the sword ashes of war skill.

[Oz]

18 minutes ago, MardiganX said:

 

How do you prevent yourself from doing a normal parry on L2 then? I have removed the ashes of war from my shield but now doing standard parry instead of the sword ashes of war skill.

you either need a shield that does not have any skill in which case the description will say that you will assume the skill of the right hand. or you need to get an ash of war which is actually called something like "no skill" and equip it on the shield as a replacement to parry. this ash of war called something like "no skill" can be purchased for about 600 runes from a vendor in a place called war shack. 

[Oz]

1 hour ago, rgraves said:

 

This doesn't really stand-up when you see the youtube vides of people owning the bosses and game though - it's totally not random and it's perfectly possible to get to a point where you can play the whole game without getting hit, jsut using your fists, jsut using a summon, at lvl 1 etc etc.

 

I know that comes across as a bit 'git gud', but that is kind of the point - it's not random and it is entirely possible to go through the game in total control. I personally can't, but other people can and do.

in sekiro that level of play where you got good enough to identify tells and react succesfully to them was more attainable for humans is what he is saying. I don't think we should be comparing ourselves with the fucking lizards. in the galaxy they come from these games are for newborn baby lizards. 😀

[df0]

2 hours ago, rgraves said:

 

This doesn't really stand-up when you see the youtube vides of people owning the bosses and game though - it's totally not random and it's perfectly possible to get to a point where you can play the whole game without getting hit, jsut using your fists, jsut using a summon, at lvl 1 etc etc.

 

I know that comes across as a bit 'git gud', but that is kind of the point - it's not random and it is entirely possible to go through the game in total control. I personally can't, but other people can and do.

Correct. I - obviously - am not on the same level as those players (LilAggy, Distortion1 and surely many more). I'm an experienced casual which is something I'll never hide. I know my limitations yet with ER I can not shake the feeling there's too much nonsense going on. Like for example how the pillars at Maliketh do not always block his attacks for some reason. It's that type of nonsense I've grown to dislike. The same for those god awful Tree Spirits (the lizard bois), how do hitboxes work 🤷‍♂️

[MardiganX]

I'm not long off the back of a full run on Sekiro (I may have mentioned it, haha) and I totally get what @df0 is feeling and I'm not even that far into Elden Ring. Sekiro had an almost scientific level of accuracy and consistency in its combat, which (providing you put in the practice) led to you being able to get really good and enjoy even the most vicious, fast paced and deadly encounters. Elden Ring slots back into that less calculating approach to combat where no matter how powerful your character is and how incredible you are at fighting there is always an uncontrollable element to combat. That uncontrollable element is fucking infuriating as it cant be countered, or blocked, or dodged and has just become an accepted part of From games, which is now extremely hard for a lot of people (including me) to accept as they demonstrated with Sekiro that they can make the rules of combat / gameplay perfect.

[Oz]

42 minutes ago, MardiganX said:

I'm not long off the back of a full run on Sekiro (I may have mentioned it, haha) and I totally get what @df0 is feeling and I'm not even that far into Elden Ring. Sekiro had an almost scientific level of accuracy and consistency in its combat, which (providing you put in the practice) led to you being able to get really good and enjoy even the most vicious, fast paced and deadly encounters. Elden Ring slots back into that less calculating approach to combat where no matter how powerful your character is and how incredible you are at fighting there is always an uncontrollable element to combat. That uncontrollable element is fucking infuriating as it cant be countered, or blocked, or dodged and has just become an accepted part of From games, which is now extremely hard for a lot of people (including me) to accept as they demonstrated with Sekiro that they can make the rules of combat / gameplay perfect.

I am also a bit early (only 105 hours in) but I agree with @df0. This became most obvious for me when the fat priest would just go mental at the end and start rolling non-stop. he would get stuck rolling on top of the summon. kill the summon. then roll on top of me and also get stuck taking me from full health to dead. you could have a perfect run until that point dodging half a million attacks perfectly and then loose to that bullshit in the end with all your flasks full. margit also does this at the end where he goes completely mental with non-stop holy attacks. the witch lady started summoning dragons one after the other.

 

it is the still a masterpiece though. 

[MardiganX]

It’s a flawed masterpiece. But it’s flaws are due to it being impossible to have the scale and vision they have achieved plus the gameplay nirvana that is Sekiro. Sekiro only worked so perfectly because it’s scale and boundaries were relatively small.

 

Whether it’s Sekiro 2 or something else, when From get both those things together then everyone else may aswell stop making new games!

[rgraves]

2 hours ago, MardiganX said:

there is always an uncontrollable element to combat.

 

No there isn't - hence people being able to do no hit runs etc.

 

I'm not disagreeing that in some places this is a bit 'oh do fuck off' for us normal folks, I'm disagreeing it's 'random' and 'inevitable' - clearly it's not because some people have mastered it and can totally toy with it.

[rgraves]

1 hour ago, Oz said:

most obvious for me when the fat priest would just go mental at the end and start rolling non-stop. he would get stuck rolling on top of the summon. kill the summon. then roll on top of me and also get stuck taking me from full health to dead. you could have a perfect run until that point dodging half a million attacks perfectly and then loose to that bullshit in the end with all your flasks full.

 

It's perfectly possible to dodge (or block with a sheild) that attack though.....

 

 

[df0]

Good vid that does not really counter our arguments. It's like showing a complication of a soccer player doing some mad stuff while disregarding all the times where it did not work. That roll:

 

- caught me off guard

- caught me by surprise from the back because the target-lock broke while I tried to create distance

- pinned me against a wall with no escape

 

Surely all the above have a "actually, you can..." retort. I know there's players that can do no-hit runs. There's a Bloodborne speedrun by Tomatoanus where he exactly knows how the fight's going to play out (apart from The One Reborn, that one messes him up good). He's live commentating like "R1, R2, dodge, R2. Back off, roll forward, shoot. Critical." That's not me at all, I am nowhere near that good or invested. The (not) random nonsense in ER pisses me off, that's all.

[MardiganX]

26 minutes ago, df0 said:

Good vid that does not really counter our arguments. It's like showing a complication of a soccer player doing some mad stuff while disregarding all the times where it did not work. That roll:

 

- caught me off guard

- caught me by surprise from the back because the target-lock broke while I tried to create distance

- pinned me against a wall with no escape

 

Surely all the above have a "actually, you can..." retort. I know there's players that can do no-hit runs. There's a Bloodborne speedrun by Tomatoanus where he exactly knows how the fight's going to play out (apart from The One Reborn, that one messes him up good). He's live commentating like "R1, R2, dodge, R2. Back off, roll forward, shoot. Critical." That's not me at all, I am nowhere near that good or invested. The (not) random nonsense in ER pisses me off, that's all.

And my addition to that is that in Sekiro there is no ‘not’. In Sekiro every single attack, by any enemy can be dealt with using the perfectly measured and intuitive set of skills you are given. In ER there are so many things that even when you know exactly what is coming you can’t know for sure it’s going to work. But that’s ok, because it isn’t meant to be as technically perfect as Sekiro and suggesting it is actually detracts from the witchcraft were able to achieve in that game.

 

 

[Oz]

1 hour ago, rgraves said:

 

It's perfectly possible to dodge (or block with a sheild) that attack though.....

good tip though. I had not tried rolling into the ball. that will help with getting trapped in walls or pillars. I have killed this dude twice. but once I was on horseback. I hope to see him again though and give him a bollocking for the ages. 

 

[Oz]

2 hours ago, MardiganX said:

It’s a flawed masterpiece. But it’s flaws are due to it being impossible to have the scale and vision they have achieved plus the gameplay nirvana that is Sekiro. Sekiro only worked so perfectly because it’s scale and boundaries were relatively small.

 

Whether it’s Sekiro 2 or something else, when From get both those things together then everyone else may aswell stop making new games!

I don't even think it's flawed. it is just a different game from sekiro. considering how much is in here I honestly just cannot comprehend how this is even running. how/why it was made. how can this be possible. I think most anybody with any remote interest in games should give this a little go as the current pinnacle of the medium. this is the sort of experience which is unique to gaming. you can't have this reading a book or watching a movie. 

[rgraves]

49 minutes ago, df0 said:

The (not) random nonsense in ER pisses me off, that's all.

 

Oh absolutely, me too - totally with you. I guess I just went OTT trying to nail down the "(not) random" part. It's hard, really hard, but it's not random or unavoidable or inevitable - if you're good, really good, you can dodge or block or evade it all. It's possible.

 

Fucking lobsters can do one though. Bastards. Especially those ones at the bottom of the sewers.

[rgraves]

16 minutes ago, Oz said:

I hope to see him again though and give him a bollocking for the ages.

 

Have you been to CFA yet? If not, I reckon it's possible you might retract that 'hope to see him again' sentiment 

[Oz]

1 minute ago, rgraves said:

 

Oh absolutely, me too - totally with you. I guess I just went OTT trying to nail down the "(not) random" part. It's hard, really hard, but it's not random or unavoidable or inevitable - if you're good, really good, you can dodge or block or evade it all. It's possible.

 

Fucking lobsters can do one though. Bastards.

hey speaking of lobsters. I found some dudes who can....

Spoiler

ride the ants! please tell me I will get an ant mount later!

 

[rgraves]

1 minute ago, Oz said:

  Hide contents

ride the ants! please tell me I will get an ant mount later!

 

 

Spoiler

Unfortunately not that I've found.....

 

[Oz]

Just now, rgraves said:

 

Have you met the 'duo' yet? If not, I reckon it's possible you might retract that 'hope to see him again' sentiment 

I can clone myself now. bring on the fat bastard duo. 

[df0]

Not joking, Mimic Ash is S Tier and demands an upgrade to +10.

If you can be bothered, try Tiche as well. Locked behind quest progress for Ranni.

 

Both are ridiculously good for different reasons.

[Oz]

32 minutes ago, df0 said:

Not joking, Mimic Ash is S Tier and demands an upgrade to +10.

If you can be bothered, try Tiche as well. Locked behind quest progress for Ranni.

 

Both are ridiculously good for different reasons.

Would you elaborate on the reasons for mimic? To check I am playing it right.

[Hawklord]

6 minutes ago, Oz said:

Would you elaborate on the reasons for mimic? To check I am playing it right.

Mimic is basically a copy of your character albeit weaker. Same armour, spells, equipment and weapons. Still fairly OP even after the nerf.

 

I've had points in the game where Mimic has done a whole boss (or mini boss) fight on it's own with me just watching