Elden Ring - Shadow of the Erdtree Expansion Announced

[Danster]

14 minutes ago, Jamie John said:

 

I'm not sure if there's a "Bugrit!" Ash of War. You could have him cast Rotten Breath repeatedly, though.

Or a clever little dog on a string summons...

[Lovelyman]

33 minutes ago, Davros sock drawer said:

I know you’re probably joking but I don’t think this is what Kevvy Metal meant.

 

The lock on is just one tool. You don’t have to use it in any situation, and certainly not every. Sometimes you need to manually aim your bow for example. It locks onto the Fire Giant’s hands because they’re its weak point, but obviously locking onto those when you’re right under it is not the best idea. Doing so repeatedly is not sensible and smacks of someone doing so just in order to claim it’s broken and have a massive boring rant - which is what Moz likes to do. 
 

See also complaining about motion sickness because the camera stays on a target as you lock onto it while riding your horse. If anything, he’s complaining that it works! 

I dunno. I get the impression that some people want to be the real Elden lords and they know the best way to play. Maybe I'm wrong but that's how it comes across to me. 

[cassidy]

8 hours ago, Alask said:

You definitely can summon an NPC for fire giant. There’s two entrances, if you’re not seeing it try the other entrance.

 

  Hide contents

It’s Alexander the jar guy. Does prevent you using Torrent though. 

 

But if you don't do his quest line.  That summon isn't there.  

[Stoikovich]

On 12/04/2022 at 19:00, PeteJ said:

Finished the Ranni questline. Yay. 

 

Now in the area you finish up. Ooh a new Evergoal to attempt. I'll try that then. 

 

*Dies repeatedly*

minor cheesy approach which helps (a bit) -

Spoiler

There’s a fairly reliable rock on the side of the area you can jump on, and the AI gets a little slowed down.   Sooner or later it will remember it can jump!   But at least the relentless attacks are slowed a little

 

[hmm]

Don't most of the giant creatures have multiple lock-on points so that you can switch between them with the right stick? I can't remember for Fire Giant specifically - I think I only fought him the once and didn't really have more trouble than with a regular giant TBH! - but usually they have lock-on points in their feet that are much more useful if you're fighting at close range.

 

It's still better to break lock-on in some circumstances, especially if you need to run away for some moves, but I did generally use it the rest of the time and never had any major problems.

[robdood]

10 hours ago, Kevvy Metal said:

It’s not broken in the slightest,

Er, it fucking is.  Try playing a bow only character and you'll see!  It has a weird mind of its own at times. 

[Jamie John]

This just occurred to me: do you have to actually kill Godrick, Renala and Radahn? I get how you have to kill Morgott,

Spoiler

so you can get through him to get to the next area

, but what's to prevent you skipping the other three? And is there a lore reason for killing them? They all seem to just be doing their own thing. 

Spoiler

Godrick is busy driving his kingdom into the ground; Renala is just imprisoned in the library, feeling sorry for herself; Radahn is locked in a never-ending festival of death. Morgott/Margit seems to be the only one interested in actually stopping you from getting to the Erdtree.

 

[PeteJ]

12 minutes ago, Stoikovich said:

minor cheesy approach which helps (a bit) -

  Hide contents

There’s a fairly reliable rock on the side of the area you can jump on, and the AI gets a little slowed down.   Sooner or later it will remember it can jump!   But at least the relentless attacks are slowed a little

 

Yeah I've tried that, she doesn't seem to get stuck for me! I've gone onto other things for a bit and will return later. Annoying my first attempt, when I thought I'd do it easily, was by far my best, since then I've barely put a dent on her health. 

 

Last night I did some more in Caelid, I think I'm now massively over levelled as I took out commander Neil (or whatever he's called) without a scratch in about a minute. I don't really have a purpose in Caelid any more, I may have missed a few minor caves but there doesn't seem to be masses to do (I've castle redmane twice). 

 

Got teleported into the capital via deeproot depths as well and had my first look around. Weird enemies in there, I'll call them Dootists for the sound they make. Easily to kill mind. 

 

I guess onto Altus Plateau next! Aargh this game is too big, the thought of learning and exploring another major area is exhausting as it is exciting. 

 

 

[Davros sock drawer]

29 minutes ago, robdood said:

Er, it fucking is.  Try playing a bow only character and you'll see!  It has a weird mind of its own at times. 

 

Not done a bow only character (because that would be insane and boring  ), but I used the bow a lot and never had an issue.

[Kevvy Metal]

35 minutes ago, robdood said:

Er, it fucking is.  Try playing a bow only character and you'll see!  It has a weird mind of its own at times. 

It’s tracking the enemy you’re locked onto, if that enemy flails about, so will the camera. It’s doing exactly what it’s meant to. 

[Lovelyman]

6 minutes ago, Kevvy Metal said:

It’s tracking the enemy you’re locked onto, if that enemy flails about, so will the camera. It’s doing exactly what it’s meant to. 

Did Miyazaki tell you this? How do you know it's not supposed to stabilise when that happens? That would be functionality better. 

 

Just because that's the way it's coded doesn't mean that's the best implementation. 

[Alask]

1 hour ago, cassidy said:

But if you don't do his quest line.  That summon isn't there.  

Ah, I thought maybe it was just one of the ones added in a patch.

 

In fairness though everyone should be doing his quest line because he’s the best.

[hmm]

10 minutes ago, Lovelyman said:

Did Miyazaki tell you this? How do you know it's not supposed to stabilise when that happens? That would be functionality better. 

 

I mean, it's worked this way for over a decade now, so perhaps not entirely unreasonable to conclude the behaviour is as he intends.

[K]

There is a strong element of "no, you're playing it wrong" in the fandom and discussions around Dark Souls. Even back when Dark Souls came out, you had loads of people on here saying you shouldn't use the drake sword despite it being very powerful and helpful, because it's a "crutch" and would mean you don't learn how to play the game properly (i.e. the way I play it). But I would say this is probably to be expected in a game that tacitly encourages you to go to the community to find out how to do stuff. Given that there are so many possible builds and strategies, people are always going to have strong opinions on what works (or doesn't work) for them.

[cassidy]

18 minutes ago, Alask said:

Ah, I thought maybe it was just one of the ones added in a patch.

 

In fairness though everyone should be doing his quest line because he’s the best.

Believe me I tried but I couldn't get it to work for me after The festival.  No idea why either. Just wasn't in the places he should have been. 

 

Maybe I'll try again in NG+ one day. 

[Kevvy Metal]

3 hours ago, Lovelyman said:

You're not allowed to use it sometimes and you get told off for doing it. 

 

3 hours ago, Lovelyman said:

Lol

 

You know you don't have to be know it alls about a game that you can play and enjoy many different ways. 

 

Kevvy was telling someone they are doing it wrong using lock on for a boss, because sometimes it call fuck up. But when I called him out and suggested maybe they should fix the lock on he affirms that it's not broken, never has been and you shouldn't use it only when there's mobs. 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Lovelyman said:

I dunno. I get the impression that some people want to be the real Elden lords and they know the best way to play. Maybe I'm wrong but that's how it comes across to me. 

 

1 hour ago, Lovelyman said:

Did Miyazaki tell you this? How do you know it's not supposed to stabilise when that happens? That would be functionality better. 

 

Just because that's the way it's coded doesn't mean that's the best implementation. 

 

Yes Miyazaki told me. 

 

...and yes, I don't think you understand the point I'm trying to make. It's not that real Elden lords don't use the lock on camera, the camera-lock is a tool that's best employed in the most suitable situations. There's absolutely no right or wrong way to play... but there's definely ways to make it more difficult for oneself, and by avoiding them can also help avoid lengthy complaint posts on internet forums. 

 

For literally every single Souls game (bar Sekiro where the camera lock is more consistantly useful), you will often find that not using the camera lock and instead manually moving the camera will make the fight way easier to manage. Since Tower Knight and his achilles heel in Demon's Souls this has been the case... since Blighttown and "lol I've fallen off the edge again" this has been the case. 

 

You lock onto something, the camera will track it. If it flails about so will the camera. It's not broken, it's doing exactly what it's meant to do... it's more the situation doesn't call for it. 

Try fighting the dragons on horseback without using the camera lock and see how much easier it is to play. The attack buttons are on the shoulders for a reason, with your thumb free to use that right stick.

Also if you love that camera lock-on then fill your boots, and enjoy circling round that giant monster that will roll about and jump miles into the air, taking the camera with it. 

[Uncle Nasty]

Lock on is useful when you're exploring a dark area and want to highlight threats. Beyond that and especially on bosses, use sparingly if at all during actual combat. If you're riding Torrent and attacking a dragon, just the way the camera freaks out and you can't ride in a straight line tells you that locking on isn't exactly ideal in this situation.

[Exit Chamber]

I understand the frustration with lock-on at times, which makes me wonder are there examples of better lock-on implementations in any similar games?

[Girth Certificate]

I quite like circling around dragons, especially with their fire reflecting in the water.

 

Anyhoo I never realised that it was 

Spoiler

Gideon

who killed Latenna's wolf. What a fucking asshole.

[Uncle Nasty]

1 minute ago, Girth Certificate said:

I quite like circling around dragons, especially with their fire reflecting in the water.

 

Anyhoo I never realised that it was 

  Reveal hidden contents

Gideon

who killed Latenna's wolf. What a fucking asshole.

 

It feels like fights take a lot longer if you're locked on, as though someone else is controlling the game and you're limited to circle strafing. Dunno, difficult to explain but it makes the game more difficult when you're contending with that. With the dragons and giants you need to be hacking away at their ankles and getting beneath them, with lock on you tend to stay in range of their attacks making you more vulnerable.

[John0]

I think lock-on could definitely be better. Often an enemy moves out of sight round a pillar or something and it you stay locked on to it, but then the moment where it actually locks-off is the moment where it appears back in view, for some reason. Also I never quite figured out how auto-locking onto other nearby enemies after you've killed one in a group is meant to work.. if at all. It seems to happen occasionally, but not very often.

 

My problem with locking off is that moving the camera and pressing roll at the same time is super awkward. I just leave it on the whole time and deal with the occasional moments of confusion.

[Kevvy Metal]

16 minutes ago, Uncle Nasty said:

Lock on is useful when you're exploring a dark area and want to highlight threats. Beyond that and especially on bosses, use sparingly if at all during actual combat. If you're riding Torrent and attacking a dragon, just the way the camera freaks out and you can't ride in a straight line tells you that locking on isn't exactly ideal in this situation.

 

Exactly. 

[Benny]

2 hours ago, Jamie John said:

 

I'm not sure if there's a "Bugrit!" Ash of War. You could have him cast Rotten Breath repeatedly, though.

 

This was about the extent of it, yeah.

[Benny]

27 minutes ago, Girth Certificate said:

I quite like circling around dragons, especially with their fire reflecting in the water.

 

Anyhoo I never realised that it was 

  Reveal hidden contents

Gideon

who killed Latenna's wolf. What a fucking asshole.

 

I defeated all dragons in this manner with projectile magic, usually lightning spear or black fireball using lock-on. Locking on to their head did more damage, so would strafe to the side on Torrent or the back, where the lock-on would still be aiming at their head through their wings. Just kept circling and dodging when they do a ground slam.

[Captain Kelsten]

I think lock-on works for relatively human sized single enemies but for large enemies and groups it can actually freak out and cause more issues than it solves. 

[Ste Pickford]

Lock on is definitely situational, but the implementation could definitely be improved a bit.  It could be tweaked to behave a bit more sensibly and usefully against larger enemies.  Just because it was like this in Demon's Souls doesn't mean it has to stay like this forever.  Plenty of other features in the series have been tweaked and improved between games.

[Stoikovich]

2 hours ago, PeteJ said:

Yeah I've tried that, she doesn't seem to get stuck for me! I've gone onto other things for a bit and will return later. Annoying my first attempt, when I thought I'd do it easily, was by far my best, since then I've barely put a dent on her health. 

 

Took me plenty of attempts for sure !  She was butting up against the edge for long enough to let me heal, ping off an arrow or spell, or be adventurous and time a jumping slash.

then I’d panic and benny-hill off the rock, round the arena, back onto the rock aaaaand repeat.

Not sure it’s what Miyazaki had in mind, but neither are my meagre combat abilities!  

[Tomdominer]

15 hours ago, Moz said:

Unable to summon enthusiasm.

 

I’m on nine attempts at this boss now and it’s maybe the worst I’ve ever seen a camera in a souls game, which is really really REALLY saying something. It’s constantly trying to reframe to fit this boss which is simply too big to work into the shot, meaning you either can’t see the ground, can’t see his attacks or can’t see what you’ve locked onto for 90% of the fight. Of course using lock-on in this fight is suicide because it always locks onto the furthest limb from you, unless it can lock onto one already clipping inside your player model and send the camera spinning 4000 degrees making me feel completely sick in the process. If ever a limb is in frame and within melee distance you can be sure pressing R3 will see the lock-in ignore it and wonk out trying to frame his wrist 100 feet above your head. Two games in my life have given my motion sickness and this is one of them, mainly because of horseback lock on but also because of terrible fights like this where their artistic intentions push way past the technical limitations of their engine. The tree spirit things are an absolute joke too. And the flying enemies. All of them. 

 

Yeah, I also couldn't find anyone to summon on PS5 with the giant as well, and ended up having to do him just by myself. I think the situation isn't helped by the fact there are two entrances to the boss battle, splitting the summoning areas.

 

My advice to you, is to not use the lock on system at all. Use torrent to close distances, and then get off your horse and concentrate damage on his feet. One of his feet is injured, and cause him to fall over, giving you a bit of extra time to damage him. I would also concentrate on fire resistant armour, and learn to dodge the stupid slow moving fireballs. His attacks are fairly easy to learn to dodge, but the difficulty comes with reading them when all you can see is his shins.

 

I did try the scarlet rot route, but could never hit him enough with arrows to infect him.

[joemul]

I can't believe there are multiple pages of lock-on arguments, STILL

[Captain Kelsten]

Let’s not pretend the lock on doesn’t have issues, it absolutely does and has in every single souls game. Sometimes it feels like it’s targeting everything except the massive dragon running right at you. You either figure out how to deal with the lock on, only use it when you need to or don’t really use it at all. Whatever works best. You shouldn’t really need to use it on a giant because they’re…well, giant. Big target. Easy to hit.