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Elden Ring - chortlesome japes


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14 minutes ago, Kevvy Metal said:

rllmuk's own Nate Dog wrote thing absolutely fantastic piece on this kind of thing. I thought it was absolutely fantastic and I couldn't agree more! Get that game design best practise playbook straight in the fucking bin I say. 

https://www.eurogamer.net/elden-ring-is-massively-imbalanced-but-balance-is-overrated-anwyay 

 

This was a great read, cheers for posting. And kudos to Nate Dogg, I didn't know we had anyone on the forum who's interviewed Miyazaki!

Oh and the Derek Yu quote/reference was the icing on the cake :)

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8 minutes ago, Kevvy Metal said:

It's all so subjective and in the hand holding the controller of the beholder... that I get so frustrated with people pushing what they think are defacto flaws that absolutely need fixed when it would be completely to the detriment of what the game is trying to achieve. A little bit of player friction is often absolutely welcome and what give spice to what could be a rather bland game with all the rough edges smoothed off. We have absolutely enough of those focussed-tested-to-oblivion games already. 
Also, players often need to be saved from themselves spoiling the fun out of things.

 

If this was aimed at me (?) then man, you are completely blowing things out of proportion. You take my minor criticism of the lock on system, which even has a youtube video parodying the problems with it, and somehow assume I think Elden Ring is "flawed". I never said anything even resembling the idea that these games are flawed. I just said, just because it might be the best game ever, its not beyond criticism. I especially find it hilarious that you suggest that fixing some minor lock-on behaviours would be "completely to the detriment of what the game is trying to achieve".

 

Like, are you seriously suggesting that if they changed the camera lock on system so it would better frame larger enemies, and more consistently locked onto priority targets, wouldn't drop locked targets behind collision, and drop lock-on when targets are falling to their death, it would be a worst game? Like really?

 

I think I need to stop reading this forum, and go outside.

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5 minutes ago, Doctor Shark said:

You whiny babies moaning that you can’t beat Malenia - this lady does it with a dance mat! 

 

My lumbago was acting up.

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54 minutes ago, Benny said:

 

I'm not sure what difference that makes. It's still being marked as parody.

 

Maybe I quoted the wrong person. It was clearly an April fool jobbie, so yes a clear parody.

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6 hours ago, Doctor Shark said:

Let’s not pretend the lock on doesn’t have issues, it absolutely does and has in every single souls game. Sometimes it feels like it’s targeting everything except the massive dragon running right at you. You either figure out how to deal with the lock on, only use it when you need to or don’t really use it at all. Whatever works best. You shouldn’t really need to use it on a giant because they’re…well, giant. Big target. Easy to hit. 

What if you're trying to use magic?

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1 hour ago, Kevvy Metal said:

 

Oh yes absolutely this!
One thing I've learnt from my time in game development is that one person's flaw is another's ..err.. treasure! and exactly the reason why they love that aspect of the game.

It's all so subjective and in the hand holding the controller of the beholder... that I get so frustrated with people pushing what they think are defacto flaws that absolutely need fixed when it would be completely to the detriment of what the game is trying to achieve. A little bit of player friction is often absolutely welcome and what gives spice to what could be a rather bland game with all the rough edges smoothed off.

We have absolutely enough of those focussed-tested-to-oblivion games already. 
Also, players often need to be saved from themselves spoiling the fun out of things. Much like Battlefield losing it's amazing supression mechanic and what not, due to the moaning from the community. 

rllmuk's own Nate Dog wrote this absolutely fantastic piece on this kind of thing. I thought it was absolutely fantastic and I couldn't agree more! Get that game design best practise playbook straight in the fucking bin I say. 

https://www.eurogamer.net/elden-ring-is-massively-imbalanced-but-balance-is-overrated-anwyay 

A problematic implementation of a feature isn't the same as balance.

 

I don't think people would hate the Souls games if the lock on was less janky. And if they do, well maybe they should get out more.

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9 minutes ago, Lovelyman said:

Fuck off. What a stupid answer.


Ask a stupid question…

 

 

Some of the major issues of the lock on are alleviated when you’re chucking spells at range, for example the enemy is less likely to suddenly jump over you and make your camera spin around. It gets more finicky the closer you are to your enemy and especially in melee range. 

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57 minutes ago, Tomdominer said:

 

If this was aimed at me (?) then man, you are completely blowing things out of proportion. You take my minor criticism of the lock on system, which even has a youtube video parodying the problems with it, and somehow assume I think Elden Ring is "flawed". I never said anything even resembling the idea that these games are flawed. I just said, just because it might be the best game ever, its not beyond criticism. I especially find it hilarious that you suggest that fixing some minor lock-on behaviours would be "completely to the detriment of what the game is trying to achieve".

 

Like, are you seriously suggesting that if they changed the camera lock on system so it would better frame larger enemies, and more consistently locked onto priority targets, wouldn't drop locked targets behind collision, and drop lock-on when targets are falling to their death, it would be a worst game? Like really?

 

I think I need to stop reading this forum, and go outside.


It was not aimed at you in the slightest, there’s no shade towards you in there at all. I was simply stating my opinion. 
 

That’s a lot of underlining, Bold font and italics in a post! 
 

Beyond criticism? I think a lot of criticisms towards all sorts of media is moot and all in the subjective opinion of the individual. 
 

This doesn’t mean people are trying to mute people from expressing things, it just means to other people they’re a complete non-issue and not a criticism. 
 

“Like, are you seriously suggesting…”

 

No, I wasn’t suggesting that at all, or insinuating that. I merely think it’s a non-issue that doesn’t need addressing in the slightest. The camera works great as it is. 

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10 minutes ago, Doctor Shark said:


Ask a stupid question…

 

 

Some of the major issues of the lock on are alleviated when you’re chucking spells at range, for example the enemy is less likely to suddenly jump over you and make your camera spin around. It gets more finicky the closer you are to your enemy and especially in melee range. 

How is it a stupid question?

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21 minutes ago, Lovelyman said:

A problematic implementation of a feature isn't the same as balance.

 

I don't think people would hate the Souls games if the lock on was less janky. And if they do, well maybe they should get out more.


How would you improve the lock-on to make it less “janky”? 

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2 minutes ago, Lovelyman said:

How is it a stupid question?


I have said a few times that you use the lock on when it feels right, and that you shouldn’t have to use it on a giant because they’re huge and easy to hit and that’s true of melee and spells. And bows and crossbows as you just go first person. 
 

Jeez, everyone is so aggressive in this thread today. 

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5 minutes ago, Kevvy Metal said:


How would you improve the lock-on to make it less “janky”? 

I would:

 

Apply some elasticity or acceleration properties so that when something flails about the camera doesn't try to track them exactly. 

 

Stop it from losing the lock when the locked subject is still being drawn by the game. 

 

You could also have some options that slightly change the lock on properties depending on the size / type of enemy. 

 

There are a lot of things that you could do I suppose. 

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8 minutes ago, Doctor Shark said:


I have said a few times that you use the lock on when it feels right, and that you shouldn’t have to use it on a giant because they’re huge and easy to hit and that’s true of melee and spells. And bows and crossbows as you just go first person. 
 

Jeez, everyone is so aggressive in this thread today. 

 You can't strafe and aim a spell manually without locking on can you?

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2 hours ago, Kevvy Metal said:


How would you improve the lock-on to make it less “janky”? 

I would make always choose the enemy closest to the centre of the screen when I press it. 

 

I would give the range / line of sight checks on it a bit more leeway, so they could be radius based as well as pure line of sight base at close range, to avoid the lock on not even enabling if there's a bit of knee-high rubble in the way or something

 

I would un pair 're centre camera' from 'lock on' in the control bindings.  The amount of times an invisible collision box has stopped lock on form engaging, while also turning my camera to face the last useful direction possible, is maddening. 

 

I think that would pretty much sort it entirely for me. 

 

Honestly, during phase one of Rennala with my bow-only character, it would sometimes choose the most BAFFLING targets when I clicked that right stick.  It seemed madly inconsistent, I couldn't work out if it was doing closest enemy, the one I was pointing the camera at, or something else.  It definitely didn't seem to be one of the first two!! 

 

Anyway, these kinds of issues are ones that tangibly exist and aren't just 'an opinion'.  All the stuff about when to use it or not, it's a tool not mandatory, etc etc sure, I think most people here get that.  

 

I think what puts people's backs up is when others 'defend' the game from their experiences because it seems a bit jarring and unnecessary, I guess?  

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I need to get back into the habit of accepting death as a normal constant for game progression. The last game I wholeheartedly embraced the concept with was Darkest Dungeon, and that's one of my fave games. 

 

Although in this game, it's a rather different prospect really!

 

I kind of knew that I'd suck at it, but I didn't know just how much that very early section lulls you into a false sense of security inasmuch as it's spectacularly easy to clobber individual folks, but by god when they all come at you at once it's pant-wettingly scary.

 

I do love how the game looks though - the world is very, very pretty. I'd like to wander it more, but not entirely certain I have the stones for the adventure :P

 

We'll see.

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12 minutes ago, JoeK said:

I need to get back into the habit of accepting death as a normal constant for game progression. The last game I wholeheartedly embraced the concept with was Darkest Dungeon, and that's one of my fave games. 

 

Although in this game, it's a rather different prospect really!

 

I kind of knew that I'd suck at it, but I didn't know just how much that very early section lulls you into a false sense of security inasmuch as it's spectacularly easy to clobber individual folks, but by god when they all come at you at once it's pant-wettingly scary.

 

I do love how the game looks though - the world is very, very pretty. I'd like to wander it more, but not entirely certain I have the stones for the adventure :P

 

We'll see.

You'll slowly get better and more confident. It might be slow burn but if it gets its grip on you it'll be the best thing you've played. 

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55 minutes ago, JoeK said:

I kind of knew that I'd suck at it, but I didn't know just how much that very early section lulls you into a false sense of security inasmuch as it's spectacularly easy to clobber individual folks, but by god when they all come at you at once it's pant-wettingly scary.

 

 

I'm absolutely not skillful at these games at all, but I can complete them (usually).

 

I can almost  never take on multiple enemies at once, unless I'm overlevelled, and my whole playstyle out in the open is to carefully pick off groups one by one, even if it takes me ages.  I think it's perfectly valid to play a these games without ever being able to wade into groups of enemies, and you don't need to see it as failure if you can't manage that.  I can't either.

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You need smarts to finish these games. Not skill. Skill lets you do it all fancy like. 

 

Just like any game with mobs, you need to find ways to thin the numbers and learn when to engage/retreat and be aware of your surroundings.

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Aye, they'll generally only follow you so far, if you get ganged up then bravely retreat and head back in when shit has calmed down. Torrent makes this a lot easier than in previous games.

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Anyone here watched this yet? I highly recommend it.  The most wholesome sounding guy (who to me sounds way older than he actually is) talking about how he came round to the Dark Souls series.  How he learnt all its lessons and came to love it.  It's lovely.  And five hours long.  But also like experiencing it again for the first time. Do it over the course of a weeks commute or whatever, it's so great ❤️

 

 

 

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Yeah, watched that while working the other day and quite enjoyed it.  Well, I enjoyed the first part where he talks about coming around to the games and liking them, after thinking he hated them. I don't quite agree with everything. I think the 'dark souls fans just tell you to git gud' thing is overdone.  Sure, there are some, but most I come across really want to help people get into these games, rather than put them off.  And I don't *quite* agree that 'levelling up is the easy mode' point he makes.  But I liked his insight overall.  Towards the end it was too weighted towards the lore and story of the games, which I'm only marginally interested in.

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