Avengers: Endgame - BIG SPOILERS TOPIC - You have been warned!

[Broker]

The idea is that Tony snapped Thanos back at the end rather than killing him and the Marvel writers thought the best way to show us that was to use the dust death effect from the end of IW instead of showing the green time stone effect that we know means time travel.

[And]

13 minutes ago, Broker said:

RE: Thanos being snapped back. It doesn’t work. Future Gamora is fully dead, which means the Gamora the Guardians are searching for is the past one who didn’t get snapped back so isn’t in the original timeline so it doesn’t work. Past Nebula is killed. Past Thanos literally changes his plans to killing everyone on earth. So what they defeated him and he decided instead of continuing with his new plan to kill them out of rage he would just wait five years and die? The time travel is a fun way to do this movie, it doesn’t make any sense and doesn’t really need to. 

 

As far as the 2024 timeline is concerned: 

Everything that happened already still already happens. 

So OG Gamora is dead, Thanos kills vision, everyone is dusted as of 2019. 

BUT - to the occupants of the Endgame 2024 universe, everyone dusted is back, but missing for 5 years, Thanos, Nebula and his army are dead, he no longer exists to come back and pose a threat. He isn’t going back to 2014 again to cause a loop, as the 2014 and 2019 versions are both dead. 

He doesn’t need to go back to do the stuff he’s already done because he’s already done it. 

Like Banner explained in the actual film. They literally say all timetravel films are bullshit. 

The stones are back where they need to be for this 1 specific timeline to play out. 

There’s probably an argument to be made for this causing lots of parallels or paradoxes but just wave your hands and think ‘timey-wimey’

 

[MDY]

7 hours ago, Stigweard said:

 

Me too and similar to when he met himself and said "ah shit" I was expecting the other Cap to say "language"

 

 

There was a line I was waiting for too.. They had a shot of Okoye just before Captain Marvel finally arrived and crashed through the ship..

I was expecting it to cut back to her and get a repeat of..

[Nick R]

I think some people in this thread are misinterpreting the time travel in the movie.

 

In the core timeline we follow, the stones are used by Thanos to do the Snap, and then destroyed by him twenty or so days later.

 

Time travel was not a part of Tony's final finger snap, which happens in 2023. In that scene, 2014 Thanos and his army were destroyed, not transported back in time to 2014 to go through the loop all over again. The Thanos who obtained all the stones in Infinity War in 2018 had not already lost to the Avengers in Endgame's 2023.

 

So at the end of Endgame, the stones no longer exist. (Not sure why this doesn't destabilise the timeline as the Ancient One said would happen if just one was removed.)

 

However at the end of the film we do have other timelines branching off the core one. (Not sure how stable they would be; need to rewatch that Ancient One scene!)

 

There's a diverging timeline where Cap has been told in 2012 that Bucky is alive and Hydra think Cap is one of them, and in which Loki ran off with the Space stone.

 

There's a timeline in which 2014 Quill got knocked out, and where Gamora, Nebula, Thanos and his army vanished (because Nebula brought them to 2023 and they never returned).

 

Cap living with Peggy is a bit less clear, but it's the subject of the first point in this handy FAQ article:

 

https://www.denofgeek.com/uk/movies/avengers-endgame/64877/avengers-endgame-very-spoilery-questions-and-theories

[Stig]

Exactly re @And. Tony doesn't have to send Thanos back for  things to play out because as Banner already says they already happened that like that already. They make a point in the film of making this point for this very reason.

 

Also after all Thanos has done why would Tony risk sending him back for Thanos to potentially change something and why would they make a point of showing him dust away the way like we saw our heroes dust away. Thanos is dead.

[Broker]

At the very least, Cap staying with Peggy erases her him and and kids creating a third branch.

[Nick R]

7 minutes ago, MDY said:

 

There was a line I was waiting for too.. They had a shot of Okoye just before Captain Marvel finally arrived and crashed through the ship..

I was expecting it to cut back to her and get a repeat of..

"Why was she up there all this time?"

 

Or better yet: have Wanda say it? 

[Stig]

@NexivRed

 

He was always philosophical, they even have that flash back where he meets Gamora and talks about things being perfectly balanced that was a long time before the Avengers.

 

 

[freezycold]

Think about it again. Like people have said. Exactly what banner says happens uhhhh, happens. Thanos HAS to go back to 2014. If he doesn’t:

 

- Infinity War doesn’t happen.

- He doesn’t destroy 50% of earth (remember he was planning on destroying ALL of earth).

- If 50% of earth isn’t destroyed and the avengers don’t kill him and find out the stones are gone, they don’t do their time heists.

- If they don’t do their time heists, nebula doesn’t send the message back to 2014.

- If Nebula doesn’t send her message back to 2014, Thanos doesn’t fight them in Endgame. 

 

 

 

If Thanos hasn’t seen evidence that he is able to successfully collect the stones and use them for his plan then why is his whole attitude and character in Infinity War all about enacting this grand destiny he now assumes he has?

 

 

 

[Stig]

You're reading that all wrong he says that what has happened has already happened and going back from their point in time won't change things, hence why they can't go back and just kill baby Thanos.

 

Back to the Future makes the point that Lorraine and George have to meet each other and fall in love on that night otherwise Marty doesn't exist, Banner says that's not how it works.

[freezycold]

They can’t go back and kill baby Thanos because if adult Thanos hadn’t existed they wouldn’t even be going on the time heists. They need adult Thanos to have won once. 

[Super Craig]

You need to watch the film again.

[freezycold]

I have. It’s you that needs to watch it again, then you’ll see it.

[JPL]

I think someone needs to do a diagram of the time travel shenanigans and how it works across this and Infinity War!

[Super Craig]

I saw it again yesterday. It's all explained.

[Stig]

2 minutes ago, freezycold said:

They can’t go back and kill baby Thanos because if adult Thanos hadn’t existed they wouldn’t even be going on the time heists. They need adult Thanos to have won once. 

 

Thats not what they say at all.

[linkster]

Does this thread deserve its own thread?

[Super Craig]

"Changing the past doesn't change the future."

 

That's exactly what Hulk says to Rhodey after he brings it up. Just verified it on a dodgy copy.

[freezycold]

In Infinity War Thanos has three scars on his face. I’m wondering now if he got those scars in Endgame. What does his face look like before the battle in 2021?

[freezycold]

Tony isn’t changing the past with his snap. He’s ensuring the sequence of events that leads 2014 Thanos to 2021 happens. It’s like a recursive time loop that has to happen and is meant to be part of our/the timeline. 

[Stig]

1 minute ago, freezycold said:

Tony isn’t changing the past with his snap. He’s ensuring the sequence of events that leads 2014 Thanos to 2021 happens. It’s like a recursive time loop that has to happen and is meant to be part of our/the timeline. 

 

But he doesn't need too, that's the point.

If it was, they'd spell it out for people on screen. MCU films have never been short of exposition.

[freezycold]

I think it’s done subtly on purpose. It’s there to see for the people who look for it.

[Super Craig]

"If you travel to the past, that past becomes your future. And your former present becomes the past. Which can't now be changed by your new future."

[freezycold]

But they aren’t changing the past. 

[JPL]

So what exactly did Tony wish for when he used the stones?

[mdn2]

The destruction of Thanos and his army. 

 

Edit: @JPL

[freezycold]

If he destroys Thanos, who has travelled from 2014, then as of 2014 in that timeline Thanos ceases to exist. So they don’t lose. So he doesn’t have his kid. 

 

Sending Thanos back to 2014 was the only way he got to keep his kid.

[mdn2]

No. It was explained in the film - time travel doesn't affect past and future events. It's the reason Nebula kills her younger self. 

[McCoy]

55 minutes ago, Kodamarama said:

So, uh, how does Captain America get the aether back inside Jane Foster? 

 

Tony did tell him to do some living. Easy to mishear that.. 

[Stig]

2 minutes ago, freezycold said:

If he destroys Thanos, who has travelled from 2014, then as of 2014 in that timeline Thanos ceases to exist. So they don’t lose. So he doesn’t have his kid. 

 

Sending Thanos back to 2014 was the only way he got to keep his kid.

 

You are literally ignoring the words in the film though. Time moves in a straight line, so when future selves go back, technically they are still moving forward. So matter what they do in the past, it doesn't affect how they experienced things at all.

 

Thanos doesn't need to be sent back to 2014 for IW to happen, it already happened, it's been and gone.