Avengers: Endgame - BIG SPOILERS TOPIC - You have been warned!

[yakumo]

5 minutes ago, John Edward Gammell said:

Previously I'd have agreed, but Cap constantly making sacrifices for the greater good and finally choosing something for himself, something he deserved, totally knocked me in the feels. 

 

I get that by going back in time to be with Peggy Steve forfeits any control he has to change events. But you cannot convince me that he was 100% living in bliss with Peggy while also simultaneously knowing about what's happening with Bucky, what will happen to Tony's parents, and everything else that will eventually come to pass in history during that 70 year time period. He's helpless to do anything to change it. How is that a happy ending for him?

 

I feel they really messed up here regarding Cap, and its why I didn't enjoy the ending as much because of this.

[Droo]

Just now, yakumo said:

I get that by going back in time to be with Peggy Steve forfeits any control he has to change events. But you cannot convince me that he was 100% living in bliss with Peggy while also simultaneously knowing about what's happening with Bucky, what will happen to Tony's parents, and everything else that will eventually come to pass in history during that 70 year time period. He's helpless to do anything to change it. How is that a happy ending for him?

 

Sounds a bit like a living hell, that, really. 

[yakumo]

 

Plus  what happens to Peggy's original husband and kids?

[Thor]

7 minutes ago, Droo said:

Sounds a bit like a living hell, that, really. 

Depends on your point of view. Thanos getting the stones is inevitable. Steve knows that. And while we don't see it on screen, it's a fair bet he's knows that the win that comes is the only one in 14,000,605. He can be content knowing that, throughout all the shit, it works out mostly for the best. 

 

5 minutes ago, yakumo said:

Plus  what happens to Peggy's original husband and kids?

What husband and kids? There was no mention of them in her funeral in Civil War. Peggy's eulogy came from her neice. 

[yakumo]

1 minute ago, Thor said:

Depends on your point of view. Thanos getting the stones is inevitable. Steve knows that. And while we don't see it on screen, it's a fair bet he's knows that the win that comes is the only one in 14,000,605. He can be content knowing that, throughout all the shit, it works out mostly for the best. 

 

What husband and kids? There was no mention of them in her funeral in Civil War. Peggy's eulogy came from her neice. 

In Winter Solider.

[Thor]

Ooohh, in which case I have no idea. 

[yakumo]

2 minutes ago, Thor said:

Depends on your point of view. Thanos getting the stones is inevitable. Steve knows that. And while we don't see it on screen, it's a fair bet he's knows that the win that comes is the only one in 14,000,605. He can be content knowing that, throughout all the shit, it works out mostly for the best. 

 

 

I was wondering why they didn't just cut his hand off in Infinity War, and at time I was told it was because it was too dark. Yet they did it here.

[yakumo]

1 minute ago, Thor said:

Ooohh, in which case I have no idea. 

She was quite happy by all accounts too.

[Thor]

Wait, what if he was the husband, and Peggy got his name changed and shit... 

[Sabreman]

I didn't think it was as good as Infinity War, but after a shaky start it got better and better until a pretty much perfect climax.

 

It's very rushed and messy in the first act. The cold opening with Clint as excellent, as is Tony stuck in space with Nebula. Them being immediately rescued by Carol (in screen time at least) pushes it a bit.

 

I was mostly worried we'd get a time travel fix story, and when they started talking in those terms my heart began to sink. Luckily the writers probably knew they couldn't get away with something so obvious, and they did something much more inventive with it. I got the feeling they were about to embark on a trip through the movies, and while that's a little indulgent I can't begrudge it, especially when they worked in so many clever moments (Hail Hydra!) and a few powerfully emotional ones (Tony bumping into his dad).

 

Regrettably, I thought the handling of Thor was the worst thing in the movie by far. Not so much the fall from grace, but the way it was portrayed. Too broad, didn't seem to fit in with the rest of the movie at all. I just couldn't buy the character becoming that person.

 

Natasha's death unfortunately lacked impact for me. Partially because of the replay of the previous Vormir scene, but also because the contest between her and Clint to sacrifice themselves played a bit too long. The fallout from it also gets lost in the ensuing hour of intensity, leaving you only thinking about Tony.

 

Speaking of, Tony and Steve were treated perfectly. Each with their own very different ending. I was expecting a death (I really thought Steve was done for up to the "On your left" moment), but what they did with him was so right. He at last got to live a full life.

[JPL]

Time Heist!

[Pelekophoros]

Oh oh oh ...

 

That shot of Cap squaring up to the entire Thanos army was fucking majestic.

[layten]

3 hours ago, Ork1927 said:

 

We’ve never had open spoiler threads before though. 

 

Why not not just one thread and click the little box as we’ve done for all the other big films.

Because it's  annoying to have a thread become just pages of this.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Treble]

Just about perfect, although I suspect some scenes may jar a little on second watch. Not much, but I agree the Thor stuff is played a little broad, and felt like it was a nerfing exercise to make him fit the Guardians more easily. 

 

I also thought there should have been more Strange (felt like they knew he was too powerful so had to tie him up) and the CapAm title should have gone to the Buckster. 

 

Other than that, so much joyous brilliance. Quill getting knocked out by Rhodey, everything Paul Rudd did and said (but especially crushing that twonk Cull Obsidian), the failed headbutt on Marvel, Loki immediately escaping, Avengers Assemble... glorious payoff goodness. 

[Wroth]

26 minutes ago, Pelekophoros said:

Oh oh oh ...

 

That shot of Cap squaring up to the entire Thanos army was fucking majestic.

Was totally expecting him to throw out an ironic "I can do this all day" line at that point.

[JPL]

3 minutes ago, Wroth said:

Was totally expecting him to throw out an ironic "I can do this all day" line at that point.

He’d already done that earlier in the film though. ‘I know, I know’!

[Comrade]

Seemed a bit weird that they literally played a Spice Girls song in the middle of the climactic battle sequence.

[Wroth]

11 minutes ago, JPL said:

He’d already done that earlier in the film though. ‘I know, I know’!

yeah, hence it being an ironic line and not a genuine callback. It's good they didn't have it either way.

[Stopharage]

Went with the wife and kids. Best thing was asking questions to both kids about what was going on, previous plot lines etc. I've had to put up with years of them doing it, so was great to finally get my revenge. 

 

Had a large americano before the film started and didn't feel the need to go for a wee; such was my level of engagement with the film. Regret not having seen the Antman films now, as he was a fairly integral character and light relief (with Thor). Felt it started a little bit slowly, but to tie all the various plot lines and feature such a wide array of characters was quite an achievement. Yes, some characters fell by the wayside, but they'd be hard-pressed to cram them all in any better than they did. 

[Treble]

Gotta also call out the sterling work done on the trailers. They gave a flavour of what was to come, but with a ton of restraint. It was a genuine pleasure going into a film with so few spoilers rattling around. 

[Benny]

I was just happy to see Korg and Miek again. In some of the funniest bits too.

[linkster]

9 hours ago, Zero9X said:

Only issue i had with this was Captain Marvel. I really don't like her, her character is bland and empty. She has no weight at all and if she wasn't in it, it would have made no difference. They could have easily done something different other than have her find Tony. I know shes only had one movie where her character was completely empty and devoid of empathy.

This. She's currently the MCU equivalent of a loot crate. No doubt people will argue she's now the tentpole character and this was simply establishing her as top dog but that's to be seen. I groaned at the "I'll be gone for a while" but I was relieved the end went to the characters who deserved it most.

 

Question about Black Widow and the soul stone though - it wasn't a sacrifice, so how did that work they way it did ...?

 

There was a great moment in our screening with the hammer and Cap when the entire place just made a kind of 'oooh' noise, it was special cos even though it was packed it wasn't a fanboy screening that cheered everything

 

There were quite a few bits that made me laugh but also ones that, had they been in our Funny Pictures thread, would have come with 'Better without the text', e.g. Cap admiring his own ass. I was laughing on my own a good few seconds before he stated the obvious and I kind of think if that joke had been in Assemble it'd have been a purely visual gag

 

I can't go along with all the "OMG they pulled it off", for me the MCU has had more misses than hits, and the amount of characters given nothing to do in this really underlined how they'd painted themselves into a corner but frankly they did the least worst thing and just breezed past them to stay on the good stuff so I'm grateful for that. 

 

(In fact, on that note I think the biggest laugh for me was Thanos drawling to Scarlett Witch 'I have no idea who you are'. Amen, bro)

 

Good experience, enjoyed it, impressive feels that had weight, unlike, for me, the last one

 

(Also, nice to see the Scottish theme from IW continuing with a bottle of Irn-Bru in, um, Norway)

[Sabreman]

Regarding the Soul Stone. It's more that you have to exchange something you love for it, whether that thing goes willingly or unwillingly isn't important. Clint and Natasha love each other (platonically), so either of them dying there would 'award' the Soul Stone to the other.

[freezycold]

I've seen various people complaining about the Hulk and how they feel robbed of the real hulky Hulk getting his revenge on Thanos. I really loved what they did with Banner's character, he's figured himself out and has basically gone through a super glow up where he's he's now living his best life and thriving. He may be a little weaker and smashy smashy but it's such a huge progression for the character that I don't really care about ever seeing more hulky Hulk smashing shit up again. Such a great payoff for the one in the team that always seemed to get the rawest deal a lot of the time.

[NexivRed]

Hands down, best part of that movie was when I said “He looks like the fuckin’ Dude” just before Tony walks past and gives his line. 

 

Me an’ Marvel writers be

 

[linkster]

1 minute ago, freezycold said:

I've seen various people complaining about the Hulk and how they feel robbed of the real hulky Hulk getting his revenge on Thanos. I really loved what they did with Banner's character, they basically gave him a super glow up and he's now living his best life and thriving from it. He may be a little weaker and behave more sensibly but it's such a huge progression for the character that I don't really care about seeing more hulky Hulk smashing shit up. Such a great payoff for the one in the team that always seemed to get the rawest deal a lot of the time.

I was just glad they got him out of that fucking suit, I cringed when it made the early appearance in the attack on Thanos

 

I missed the rage. Hulk is probably my favourite character. The line in Assemble about 'I'm always angry' just gets me every time. The issue I had with what they did here was they just ignored that entire aspect of his character, which I think was a real shame.

[whizzo]

3 hours ago, Wroth said:

So is Peter now 5 years younger than his classmates then?

Not quite. He's five years younger than his former classmates that survived the snap. 

[freezycold]

I just realised what Tony made happen with his snap. He didn't snap Thanos etc out of existence, he snapped them back to 2014 so that the timeline could be repaired/continue as needed. That means the Thanos we saw in Infinity War had already fought the Avengers (here in Endgame in 2014) and lost, and he was doing his best to change the course of history in the hope he would succeed. That's why Thanos knows Tony Stark, and that's why he said to Tony in IW that he's not the only one cursed with knowledge.

 

This may aso explain Thanos' different attitudes to the Avengers between the two movies. In Endgame at his first encounter with the avengers he seems fairly curious about them and engages relatively directly. In hindsight and in comparison, in IW Thanos is largely disinterested in the Avengers like he's already well aware of them except for Tony. In 2014 Thanos saw concrete proof that he had successfully collected all the stones, which I think gave him some sort of confidence or emboldened self assuredness that he was destined to get the stones and always win. This confidence is very much on display in Infinity War but missing from 2014 Thanos. Unfortunately for him that fearless drive for success was his downfall as it leads to this weird recursive time loop where he inevitably is always defeated in the end.

 

Tell me I'm wrong.

[NexivRed]

1 hour ago, freezycold said:

I just realised what Tony made happen with his snap. He didn't snap Thanos etc out of existence, he snapped them back to 2014 so that the timeline could continue. The Thanos we saw in Infinity War had already fought the Avengers (here in Endgame) and lost, and he was doing his best to change the course of history in the hope he would succeed. That's why Thanos know's Tony Stark, that's why he said to Tony in IW that he's not the only one cursed with knowledge. 

 

Tell me I'm wrong.

 

So 5 years ended up having not happened, and the battle we just saw was Thanos’s only chance to change things, hence his expression right at the end?

 

Edit: Oh, duh. Just the bad guys you meant. 

[linkster]

18 minutes ago, freezycold said:

I just realised what Tony made happen with his snap. He didn't snap Thanos etc out of existence, he snapped them back to 2014 so that the timeline could continue. The Thanos we saw in Infinity War had already fought the Avengers (here in Endgame) and lost, and he was doing his best to change the course of history in the hope he would succeed. That's why Thanos know's Tony Stark, that's why he said to Tony in IW that he's not the only one cursed with knowledge. 

 

Tell me I'm wrong.

How does that fit with Thanos finding out from his daughter that in their time the war had already been fought ... ? Surely if you're right he'd have known that already