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PlayStation 5 - Next gen is here!


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22 minutes ago, petrolgirls said:

@JPLThat or you're as tedious as you are delusional. 

Alright, no need for insults. I thought we were just having a bit of fun. Not my fault you’re objectively wrong.

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1 hour ago, Rumspringa said:

There's also pretty big differences in human vision that don't seem to be accounted for. I was always surprised (before my eyes started melting) by how poor 20:20 actually is, I think 20:10 has been recorded. 

 

 

Best-case scenario post-surgery peaks at 20 : 6 I believe.

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1 hour ago, gooner4life said:

 

Yeah i misread, 360 and PS3 were actually sub-HD for most things, certainly as games got prettier towards the end of the generation they started rendering sub 720p to maintain framerates.

 

The launch Xbox One was horribly under powered and only does 720p native on a lot of stuff,  I very much doubt PS5 or XSX will achieve native 4k if games are going to look better than this gen's graphical showcases.

 

Given that the most powerful GPU in the PC gaming market struggles with native 4k, and is significantly more powerful than even the Xbox Series X, we are definitely not getting native 4k on the new consoles.

 

Native 1440p for most games, I'd imagine.

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6 minutes ago, Isaac said:

 

Given that the most powerful GPU in the PC gaming market struggles with native 4k, and is significantly more powerful than even the Xbox Series X, we are definitely not getting native 4k on the new consoles.

 

Native 1440p for most games, I'd imagine.

 

Plenty of One X games run at 4k.  The issue with PCs is people setting 4k and stupid ultra settings at the same time.

 

A bigger issue than resolution is antialiasing.  Temporal solutions will improve again with PS5/XSX.  1440p with really good antialiasing is better than 4k with none. 

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36 minutes ago, Isaac said:

 

Given that the most powerful GPU in the PC gaming market struggles with native 4k, and is significantly more powerful than even the Xbox Series X, we are definitely not getting native 4k on the new consoles.

 

Native 1440p for most games, I'd imagine.


don’t discount not allowing customised settings and tuning for a fixed configuration. I’d imagine 4k30 to be perfectly attainable: a 1070 from 2016 will do that on anything - it’s just when you’re pushing 60hz and stupid settings that things go wrong.

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On 05/01/2020 at 11:08, JohnC said:

Maybe a silly question, but with modern filetype optimisations (which to be fair I'm just assuming exists), does zipping things carry much advantage these days?

 

No not really.  Graphics, music and video take up the majority of the space and all are compressed formats before you begin.

 

On 05/01/2020 at 11:51, Ghosty said:

 

The PS5 will probably be Sony's last console endeavour. So 8k support seems sensible.

 

The "opinion formers" have said this is the last console generation since at least the PS2/Xbox actually 1 generation. It's not been true yet.

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5 hours ago, monkeydog said:

Plenty of One X games run at 4k.  The issue with PCs is people setting 4k and stupid ultra settings at the same time.

 

A bigger issue than resolution is antialiasing.  Temporal solutions will improve again with PS5/XSX.  1440p with really good antialiasing is better than 4k with none. 

 

Yeah, a lot of modern game engines make a clear distinction between target and internal resolutions, particularly if they support dynamic resolutions. So you might get a 4K image in certain scenes, but most of the time it will be a bit softer than that, but still technically "4K" because of the way it's munging data from different frames together. Given how close you need to be to a TV to get the full benefit of 4K, I'm inclined not to care.

 

Frame rates I'm not so sure about. I doubt these consoles are going to be able to hit 60fps reliably at resolutions anything north of 1080p. So maybe you will get locked 30fps by default in most games, then if you have a VRR capable display, it will let you unlock. I see VRR as the key, as developers presumably won't be comfortable changing / removing FPS caps unless they know players will get a good experience when they hit a drop. I think higher frame rates have much more potential to improve the gaming experience than higher resolutions, so to be honest I'm a bit annoyed about the fuss around 4K.

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I regularly work with 2k, 4k and 8k footage and I'm 100% with @petrolgirls on this, from a consumer perspective it's almost entirely placebo nonsense. We regularly have big name directors coming in to review things, cache their shot/film/show/whatever in 2k (because it's so much quicker to work with) and just not bother telling them because they can't tell the difference, even on a cinema screen.

 

That said it does make a much bigger difference for games than it does for films, since they mostly in-focus and actually render all the extra detail.  Even for games you'd never need more than 4k though, I sit about 2m away from 55-inch screen and a well processed image is pretty much flawless as it is.

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3 minutes ago, HarryBizzle said:

Nothing looks sharp to me in the cinema. 
 

I can fairly easily tell between resolutions with games. Never seen anything in 8K, though. 


Cinema isn’t meant to be sharp.

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Yeah, so I don’t know why Carlos would say they can’t tell the difference even on a cinema screen.

 

Also, I totally agree it’s a case of diminishing returns though, especially with good TAA. And I can’t tell the difference between checkerboard and native at all. The difference in the latter is only while in motion. 

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6 hours ago, CarloOos said:

I regularly work with 2k, 4k and 8k footage and I'm 100% with @petrolgirls on this, from a consumer perspective it's almost entirely placebo nonsense. We regularly have big name directors coming in to review things, cache their shot/film/show/whatever in 2k (because it's so much quicker to work with) and just not bother telling them because they can't tell the difference, even on a cinema screen.

 

Exactly so. Almost every film '4K master' is nothing of the sort either, whilst big budget films will generally have one Alexa 65/LF as their A-cam most of their B-cams will be older XT's/Minis that only shoot 2.8K. Most of the glass they're shooting with doesn't shoot sharp 4K and the VFX pipeline, particularly huge complex renders, are often targeted much closer to 2K and then uprezzed to camera native - 2880 pixels wide is a particularly popular render target in film.

 

 

 “I am not stupid!” thought the man: “it must be my good office, for which I am not fit. It is funny enough, but I must not let it be noticed.” And so he praised the stuff which he did not see, and expressed his pleasure at the beautiful colors and charming pattern. “Yes, it is enchanting,” he told the Emperor.

 

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6 minutes ago, joffocakes said:

Are we likely to hear much about PS5 from CES this week?

 

I think it is going to be talked about. This gen has had a series of unlikely reveals, so it's difficult to rule anything in or out.

 

At a bare minimum, I think they'll announce a specific Playstation event, where PS5 will receive a proper unveiling. We may get a look at the case or the controller to go along with that but who knows.

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1 hour ago, petrolgirls said:

 

Exactly so. Almost every film '4K master' is nothing of the sort either, whilst big budget films will generally have one Alexa 65/LF as their A-cam most of their B-cams will be older XT's/Minis that only shoot 2.8K. Most of the glass they're shooting with doesn't shoot sharp 4K and the VFX pipeline, particularly huge complex renders, are often targeted much closer to 2K and then uprezzed to camera native - 2880 pixels wide is a particularly popular render target in film.

 

 

 “I am not stupid!” thought the man: “it must be my good office, for which I am not fit. It is funny enough, but I must not let it be noticed.” And so he praised the stuff which he did not see, and expressed his pleasure at the beautiful colors and charming pattern. “Yes, it is enchanting,” he told the Emperor.

 

 

 

I don’t watch much TV, but I seem to recall Planet Earth 2 is shot in a mixture of 4K and 2K. This is quite obvious when watching it as you jump between the two and the latter looks disappointingly soft on my TV. 

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5 hours ago, HarryBizzle said:

Yeah, so I don’t know why Carlos would say they can’t tell the difference even on a cinema screen.


Well, that depends on the projector. The vast majority of cinemas are 2k (and out of focus, and too dark). That example I was trying to give could apply to anything between a £30,000 reference monitor and your standard 55-inch OLED TV, all of which we also use.
 

I think what footle might have been referring to is that film in general, unlike most games, isn’t actually meant to look too sharp. Sharp images are ugly, they’re not something most cinematographers actually desire. Seeing games finally moving away from their obsession with extreme clarity has been my favourite development of this generation, despite being guaranteed to wind up the purists who want to disable everything and play with a FOV of 180.

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4 minutes ago, HarryBizzle said:

 

I don’t watch much TV, but I seem to recall Planet Earth 2 is shot in a mixture of 4K and 2K. This is quite obvious when watching it as you jump between the two and the latter looks disappointingly soft on my TV. 

 

Almost all 4K films and TV are a mixture of camera resolutions, typically ranging from 2.8K - 4k. In all likelihood when you see an image that's soft it's much more likely due to the glass they've shot with being slightly soft or the focus being slightly out - both of these factors are much, much more obvious to the eye than camera resolution.

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