PlayStation 5 - Next gen is expensive

[Sarlaccfood]

4 hours ago, Madness said:

Spotify has never muted game soundtracks for me (I think the only console to ever do that was the Xbox 360 and it was freakin’ awesome and I don’t know why it isn’t the default)

Eh? It totally does for me when I’m playing GT sport or Wipeout (and it gives me a pop-up with artist and title when a new track starts @Parappa)

Maybe it’s a game-by-game basis? It’s one of my favourite features on PS4 (especially now they do podcasts) so would be gutted if it’s gone.

[scoobysi]

4 hours ago, Alex W. said:

PS4 would automatically enable/disable HDR depending on whether the game was using it.

Isn’t that what the PS5 does as the HDR setting is automatic?

[gooner4life]

Worms Rumble is available to download on the store now as part of PS+

[Wiper]

30 minutes ago, scoobysi said:

Isn’t that what the PS5 does as the HDR setting is automatic?

 

As per the posts that Alex was responding to, no:

 

5 hours ago, Wiper said:

My TV's an LG OLED55BX, which did at least make it easy to identify the issue (it pops up with an HDR logo when switching from SDR to HDR, so the fact that wasn't happening when switching to the UI from the game was a clue, then confirmed by going into the (blindingly white) HDR settings menu within the TV which is only available when being fed an HDR signal). After that I read around, and lo, it's officially a thing.

 

[Alex W.]

Yeah, if it's like the PS4 "Automatic" just means "detect what the TV is capable of and do that", nothing to do with changing the setting on-the-fly.

[gooner4life]

The PS4 OS wasn't in 4K or HDR though so it didn't turn it on by default, only if a game had HDR then it would turn it on, for PS5 the UI is in HDR so it turns it on regardless.

[gossi the dog]

20 hours ago, HarryBizzle said:

COD was one of the first to move to the Tuesday. Rather than being to do with giving us the game at the same time, I think the extra days on sales helped it break sales records every time.

 

Games released on a Tuesday was an American thing. I think originally the idea was that they shipped the games out to stores on the Tuesday, so they'd arrive by the weekend.

[gossi the dog]

11 hours ago, Wiper said:

The indicator's an absence; specifically, PS4 games appear in your library with [PS4] overlaid on them, while the front page appends "| PS4" to their title as shown below their thumbnail when highlighted, per the below.

 

 

Ace Combat Squadron Leader?

[Super Craig]

11 minutes ago, gossi the dog said:

 

Ace Combat Squadron Leader?

 

It was included in a pre-order/special edition of Ace Combat 7. The PS5 combines it with Ace Combat 7 annoyingly.

[gossi the dog]

2 minutes ago, Super Craig said:

 

It was included in a pre-order/special edition of Ace Combat 7. The PS5 combines it with Ace Combat 7 annoyingly.

 

Ah. So is that the port of Ace Combat 5?

[Super Craig]

1 minute ago, gossi the dog said:

 

Ah. So is that the port of Ace Combat 5?

 

Yep.

[Kevvy Metal]

15 hours ago, Wiper said:

 

 

• HDR implementation is inexplicable. Not an issue if you don't use HDR, of course, but if, like me, you do, having the so-called 'automatic' setting force HDR on everything is just insane. Ignoring it being a right faff to jump back and forth through the system menu when switching games, the fact that the system puts the onus on the player knowing which games are or aren't HDR titles is crazy. I'm hoping this is something that gets changed as a priority.

 

 

 

Are you not using one of the forum fav LG OLED's?

Do you have Dynamic Tone Mapping turned on? (which is default in game mode) that will raise the brightness across the board in HDR mode, so it's your tv doing it rather than the console. 

It should be in HGIG mode, with black levels Full for games. This will make non-HDR games look pretty much as they should, even when HDR is engage at the system level. 

 

Obviously your tv, do what you want. But HDTVtest on Youtube is a great resource. 

 

[Alex W.]

I do forget that the LG OLEDs are (with the correct settings) that mythical ideal TV operating under ideal conditions.

[footle]

13 hours ago, Wiper said:

My TV's an LG OLED55BX, which did at least make it easy to identify the issue (it pops up with an HDR logo when switching from SDR to HDR, so the fact that wasn't happening when switching to the UI from the game was a clue, then confirmed by going into the (blindingly white) HDR settings menu within the TV which is only available when being fed an HDR signal). After that I read around, and lo, it's officially a thing.

 

Could be worse: pretty much the only thing on an Xbox (given Auto HDR is now a thing, and mostly works) that isn't HDR is the UI.

So it's a continual flicker back and forth from HDR to not-HDR.

[Hitcher]

1 minute ago, footle said:

So it's a continual flicker back and forth from HDR to not-HDR.

How often are you really switching from playing a game back to the UI though?

[Alex W.]

41 minutes ago, gooner4life said:

The PS4 OS wasn't in 4K or HDR though so it didn't turn it on by default, only if a game had HDR then it would turn it on, for PS5 the UI is in HDR so it turns it on regardless.

There’s nothing technologically stopping it switching in to SDR when it starts an SDR game though (except perhaps them needing to tone map the HDR pop-up menus back to SDR, or just design an SDR version of them).

[Kevvy Metal]

12 hours ago, Alex W. said:

PS4 would automatically enable/disable HDR depending on whether the game was using it.

 

It sounds like it’s tone mapping the SDR games in to the equivalent part of the HDR colour space, which with a correctly calibrated ideal display in principle should give the same results as displaying in the SDR colour space.
 

But displays aren’t ideal - on an HDR LCD in HDR mode for example, the backlight goes up to the maximum, even if the image isn’t using the full brightness range. That means backlight bleed that is avoided when the TV is in SDR mode, where the backlight is dimmed to only the level an SDR image actually needs.

 

You're totally right with this. It's not ideal at all with HDR LCD's that pump up the back light to max, but with the OLED's set right, there should be almost no difference in a non-HDR game with HDR on at a system level as the full dynamic range is available and being used. 

[footle]

9 minutes ago, Hitcher said:

How often are you really switching from playing a game back to the UI though?

 

At the moment, to test Quick Resume, more often than normal?

But if I can't safely complain about the Series X console's HDR implementation in the PS5 thread, where can I?

 

[Practically, I suppose I'd like both consoles to have a HDR UI, since most games are now in HDR, but drop out to SDR where HDR isn't supported by the game. But I suppose everything is better than on PC.]

[Uncle Mike]

It's perhaps worth mentioning that HDTVTest reckon the HGIG calibration screen gets you to set it up wrong:

 

 

[Hitcher]

 

11 minutes ago, footle said:

At the moment, to test Quick Resume, more often than normal?

But you can use the Guide to switch games without going to the home screen.

[Dudley]

22 minutes ago, Hitcher said:

How often are you really switching from playing a game back to the UI though?

 

My TV tries to be clever and dumps game mode between game and dash, it's not that bad because like you say it doesn't happen that often.

[Alex W.]

9 minutes ago, Uncle Mike said:

It's perhaps worth mentioning that HDTVTest reckon the HGIG calibration screen gets you to set it up wrong:

 

 

I’m not going to bother watching the whole YouTube Ads Minimum Ten Minutes of video there but it sounds like basically you want to run the calibration in the darkest environment where you’re actually going to play games, because otherwise you’ll set the black point too low and get mushy shadows.

[Grobbelboy]

 

21 minutes ago, Uncle Mike said:

It's perhaps worth mentioning that HDTVTest reckon the HGIG calibration screen gets you to set it up wrong:

 

 

I like the guy's channel and he has some genuine knowledge, but for those that don't want to watch 19 minutes for something that can be summarized in one sentence: on the first and second calibration screen, make sure the image is just invisible (instead of barely visible) and on the third (last) screen choose the lowest possible step (where the 'Darker' arrow is greyed out).

[Down by Law]

My eyes must be broke because I love the always on HDR. It makes older games like Yakuza Zero look amazing at night, the depth of the neon lighting looks way better than it did on the Pro on the same TV, ditto for Shenmue III and countless others. Even Streets of Rage 4's colours jump off the screen, i love it. I have a Panasonic DX700 from 2016 though, so admittedly it might be different for people who start every sentence with 'on my OLED'  *

 

*only jealous because black friday was crap for TV's this year - though i did nearly splurge £1400 on a 65" panasonic on HUKD yesterday but after measuring up it was just too darn large for the lounge, of course the 55" wasn't on sale 

 

[Uncle Mike]

15 minutes ago, Alex W. said:

I’m not going to bother watching the whole YouTube Ads Minimum Ten Minutes of video there but it sounds like basically you want to run the calibration in the darkest environment where you’re actually going to play games, because otherwise you’ll set the black point too low and get mushy shadows.

 

Yeah, it's needlessly long.

 

I think in short, the default PS5 setup encourages you to set the brightest point too dim and the blackest point too bright.

 

So it's suggested that on the first two screens - go to the same point (to where the icon is just invisible, rather than just visible)

And on the third, just go to full dark and ignore the icon altogether.

 

That way, the third screen ensures that Black is black (not dark grey) and the first two ensure you're getting all the brightness your screen is capable of displaying.

 

Whether any of this makes any difference to non-robotic eyes, who knows?

[Calashnikov]

16 minutes ago, Down by Law said:

My eyes must be broke because I love the always on HDR. It makes older games like Yakuza Zero look amazing at night, the depth of the neon lighting looks way better than it did on the Pro on the same TV, ditto for Shenmue III and countless others. Even Streets of Rage 4's colours jump off the screen, i love it. 

 

I didn’t think the PS5 did always on HDR for SDR games, such as the ones you mentioned?
 

And do you just play Shenmue III every week or something? 

[Down by Law]

Ha it seems like it, i clocked up 108 hours by February for the platinum but I didn't touch it again till the PS5 came out - the performance gain is massive so very much enjoying loading up a save and comparing it to the PS4 version. Along with the Last Guardian on disc it's possibly the best example I have of PS4 BC being improved on PS5. Yes everything gaming wise runs in HDR on PS5 whether it's 'properly' supported or not, some people really not happy with this but I have found everything to look better on my display. It only flicks over to non-HDR when running a standard Blu Ray disc or DVD.

 

I just finished the Challenge mode on Days Gone (another game now running at 60FPS) which took about 10 hours longer than expected and am going for the Yakuza 6 platinum now (unfortunately I found a bug in that Virtua Fighter 5:FS crashes the PS5 when you get to Stage 8) luckily you don't need 100% completion for the plat but that's the only disappointing thing about the PS5 so far !

[Kevvy Metal]

2 hours ago, Grobbelboy said:

 

I like the guy's channel and he has some genuine knowledge, but for those that don't want to watch 19 minutes for something that can be summarized in one sentence: on the first and second calibration screen, make sure the image is just invisible (instead of barely visible) and on the third (last) screen choose the lowest possible step (where the 'Darker' arrow is greyed out).

 

This will summarise the last few PS5 on an LG OLED related vids from HDTV - 

 

• From the TV Home menu, set the HDMI input to PC. This will disabled all unwanted processing, this is also apparently the only way to get full 4:4:4 chroma!
• On the PS5, keep all settings on "Recommended" 
• In HDR Game mode, leave all the settings default, apart from -
• Expert settings - Dynamic Tone Mapping set to HGIG (This will turn off all TV tone mapping and add a hard clip at around 800 nits)
• Expert settings - White Balance - Warm2
• Picture options - Black Level - Auto (only available in PC mode) You'll be outputting Full RGB range as recommended in that video, which is a little different from the usual recommendation of "Limited" but with this set up, it will do full RGB for games and Limited for movies. 

 

In PS5 menu options - HDR Calibration

• Set the two white levels to the point where the sun completely disappears. If it is still visible, then you will lose specular highlight detail 
• Set the Black level to absolute zero. You will get a proper 0,0,0 RGB black level. 

 

Things to note - 

 

The PS5 HDR Calibration tool will ONLY EVER DO ANYTHING if the game is pulling the data from the OS. Like Mile Morales. A lot of games don't do this and you have to calibrate the game in the game's menu's anyway! Lots of Sony first party games even do this! Demon's Souls has it's own calibration, as does TLOUp2.

 

It's best practice to always check if the game has an in-game HDR Calibration, as it will NOT be using the OS settings and you instead have to set it yourself by hand. 

As HGIG lets the game do all the tone map with a hard clip ceiling set at around 800 nits you should still always use it. You should be yourself setting the white point in games to the 900-1000 nit range which is at the point the "grey boxes" disappear.

Sekiro and Saint's Row 3rd Remaster have in-game nits meters, and this all works out as expected.

 

Another thing worth noting, setting Dynamic Tone Mapping to OFF still does tone mapping! HGIG is the best option for everything.  

 

With it set like this, there is basically no visible difference when running an SDR game with HDR on or off in the PS5 settings menu, as the HDR dynamic range is now set correctly. It might not be ideal having it always on for some tv's, but it looks good with the LG OLEDs

 

Here's Evil Boris' patreon with similar info. He recommends Limited RGB, where as Vincent recommends Auto mode and full RGB. 

I like Vincent's settings the best, as with Limited and Warm 2, white looks a bit yellow, where as with Full RGB and Warm2, white looks paper white. 

 

https://www.patreon.com/evilboris

 

[Parappa]

33 minutes ago, Grobbelboy said:

 

I like the guy's channel and he has some genuine knowledge, but for those that don't want to watch 19 minutes for something that can be summarized in one sentence: on the first and second calibration screen, make sure the image is just invisible (instead of barely visible) and on the third (last) screen choose the lowest possible step (where the 'Darker' arrow is greyed out).

Thanks for this - just changed mine and at least the dashboard looks a lot better.  It was too bright on my screen but looks a lot better now.  

[Parappa]

10 hours ago, Sarlaccfood said:

Eh? It totally does for me when I’m playing GT sport or Wipeout (and it gives me a pop-up with artist and title when a new track starts @Parappa)

Maybe it’s a game-by-game basis? It’s one of my favourite features on PS4 (especially now they do podcasts) so would be gutted if it’s gone.

Yeah I thought it did! - I need to try it with one of those games however I have found that displaying the track name is turned off by default in the PS5 options.

 

Edit  - just tested with Wipeout Omega Collection and you are right - it mutes the soundtrack so seems to be game specific (it doesn't work with Wreckfest) 

 

Edit 2 - Feck me - Wipeout looks incredible on PS5