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PlayStation 5 - Next gen is expensive


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2 hours ago, scoobysi said:


Firmer grip on tarmac, FFB over bumps/kerbs, slip on ice, less force/slip on dirt all felt through wheel forces/rumble. Damage to the car via e.g. pull to one side on the wheel. In terms of engine damage I’d say that was mostly through sound and rumble on the wheel. Assetto Corsa Competizione sets the bar for sound. More advanced pedals have forces but I don’t have those but I do have a load-cell brake that offers variable resistance.


Still not sure we’re talking about the same kind of thing, or whether how I’m imagining the DualSense to work is actually correct! Guess it will come down to actually experiencing it. I’m pretty sceptical that it’s as revolutionary as it’s being made out to be. Either way, if driving games can add that similar sense of connection, using the pad as they do a wheel then, that would be pretty cool! Then there are all the other possibilities for other types of games.

 

44 minutes ago, Chadruharazzeb said:

 

Really? I can think of 2 (two) games that used the pad as anything other than a map button. 


Really! There are lists of games using the Touchpad for stuff other than map buttons on PS4 if you Google it. The lists I’ve just checked don’t even have games like AstroBot or the later VR stuff on either.

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1 hour ago, LaveDisco said:

Also, it will make some stuff harder, which is totally more fun. 

 

I don't think this is what you were talking about, but there may be accessibility issues as well. There was a EG article yesterday about it, which I found really interesting: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2020-10-31-what-do-next-gen-controllers-mean-for-accessibility

 

Someone in my family has some difficulties and current gen gaming has made things really difficult, as games have gotten more and more complex. The advent of QTEs was also disastrous as they have a learning disability, so they can learn how to play some fairly complex games by learning the controls, but really struggle with reading the inputs and timing of QTEs, which were everywhere at one point.

 

I'm all for this stuff but want devs to provide accessibility friendly options.

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12 minutes ago, Fully Aspel said:

Still not sure we’re talking about the same kind of thing, or whether how I’m imagining the DualSense to work is actually correct! Guess it will come down to actually experiencing it. I’m pretty sceptical that it’s as revolutionary as it’s being made out to be. Either way, if driving games can add that similar sense of connection, using the pad as they do a wheel then, that would be pretty cool! Then there are all the other possibilities for other types of games.


I think the adaptive triggers will add most to driving games but the haptic feedback might be good for simulating someone you’ve thrown in your boot who is trying to get out in GTA VI :D.

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36 minutes ago, HarryBizzle said:

 

I don't think this is what you were talking about, but there may be accessibility issues as well. There was a EG article yesterday about it, which I found really interesting: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2020-10-31-what-do-next-gen-controllers-mean-for-accessibility

 

Someone in my family has some difficulties and current gen gaming has made things really difficult, as games have gotten more and more complex. The advent of QTEs was also disastrous as they have a learning disability, so they can learn how to play some fairly complex games by learning the controls, but really struggle with reading the inputs and timing of QTEs, which were everywhere at one point.

 

I'm all for this stuff but want devs to be provide accessibility friendly options.

 

Yeah I read that article. Really interesting. I'm glad they can be turned off for those who need it. MS have got to be praised for their accessibility controller too. That and TLOU2 was a masterclass in offering options.

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3 hours ago, Fully Aspel said:


Just to be clear with what’s being claimed.......

 

You’re saying that you can actually feel with your hands, through the steering wheel, what surface you are driving on? And you can feel through the pedals, that the cars engine is struggling etc? 
 

I played Forza and GT on my Nephew’s set up, and there was force feedback and resistance in the wheel which was great, but I’m not up on wheels and stuff so don’t know what the latest tech is.

 

However, from the previews I’ve seen about the DualSense they seem to be describing something different, at least to that. They seem to be saying you can actually feel surfaces through the controller. For example you feel a character skating over ice or feel a character getting bogged down in mud. Or if it’s raining on the game you can feel the rain drops through the controller. With the triggers you can feel a spring being coiled and released. Maybe I’m missing something or I’m imagining something different to what’s being described in previews but it does sound different to the standard force feedback I’ve experienced with a wheel.

 

I had the T300RS thrustmaster wheel. Was fantastic and the brushless motors with the force feedback was something else. 

 

You could definitely feel surfaces through the wheel. Tarmac surface you could tell the tyres were gripping and when they were letting go. Gravel surface the wheel would feel rather loose and you could tell there was no grip on the tyres but you would feel jittering in the force feedback. Icy surface it would be loose and no feedback. It also wasnt just on or off it was really clever with increasing intensity to make it feel very realistic.

 

In terms of feeling what was happening in the pedals, no. I did buy the pedals with clutch only because you got better pedals and it had a rubber cone behind the brake pedal which gave you a progressive feel. This is the part I think the Dualsense will offer that pedals can't (the pedals I had anyway, i would bet there are pedals that can do this). Being able to feel ABS etc but it can't really offer FFB on the steering. 

 

I fully believe it is the same type of technology being used in the Dualsense and thats just incredible. You won't beat a proper wheel setup for a gaming driving experience but this new technology will bridge that gap and maybe even offer something the other doesn't have.

 

The other crazy thing is that the controller is packed in with the console, its not an additional spend.

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7 minutes ago, iknowgungfu said:

The actual design has grown on me a bit but I am constantly surprised at the size.


That’s what she said. 
 

But seriously, there’s no getting around the fact that it’s a huge mother. It’s mainly a practical consideration for me. I simply don’t have an easy spot for it to slot in horizontally and look inconspicuous. I could put it vertical but it will just look crazy in my family den. Series X will sit just behind the TV and blend in. 
 

Will 100% be picking up when they do a smaller revision. Or if haptic adaptive stuff really takes off I may need to knock a wall down. 

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2 minutes ago, Yiggy said:

Series X will sit just behind the TV and blend in. 

Stick some black vinyl on the nearest plate to reduce the white and surely the PS5 would fit easier behind your TV as its narrower?

 

I understand your position though, I have the same problem with the Series X as the shelf height required would mean I'd have to lose the Sky box completely from the unit which isn't going to happen (hence ordering the S instead). It also means the PS5 can be hidden away behind the door unless it's in use.

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17 minutes ago, Raoull duke said:

I heard from a mate that they've totally botched it. Doesn't even have graphics yet. They're gonna have to patch them in at a later date. Gonna be weeks before you'll even be able to see what you're playing. 

 

Does your mate's uncle work for Nintendo? 

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Just now, Shimmyhill said:

I didn’t realise that VR was back compatibility mode only, didn’t NMS dev say the PS5 version would run or do you need to have two versions of the game installed?

Dunno it's all very unclear ... Again ... 

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9 hours ago, Fully Aspel said:


I’ve played with a few wheels but, none of the ones I’ve personally used have allowed you to really physically feel different road surfaces, or feel how your car is damaged outside of the ways I’ve already mentioned.
 

We’re talking about a standard controller though that, applies to all games, and allows new gameplay possibilities and an extra layer of immersion......if it is as good as people are describing it in previews etc. 
 


There are many first and third party games that took advantage of the gyro, touchpad and other features of the DualShock4. It worked brilliantly with many VR titles too - Astrobot, Statik, Dreams, are a few that immediately spring to mind.

If you’re not playing the right game, then force feedback can be very subtle. But certainly your average £180 Logitech setup will let you feel surfaces etc, as well as weight, kerbs, changes in adhesion as you hit the brakes etc. in the right game.

 

it’s also very easy for games to fuck force feedback up though, because each brand of wheel is different.

 

for VR hopefully Sony will introduce some proper hand controllers and stop faffing about with the DualShock and ancient move controllers. You can think it’s great and work brilliantly at the moment, but the difference between a controller - even a tracked controller - and having two independent hands in 360 space makes to the feeling of presence needs to be experienced.

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8 minutes ago, Quexex said:

Not sure if this has been posted already, but this teardown shows the innerworkings of the adaptive triggers. 

 

https://youtu.be/M7msPRHXB_o

 

At 10 mins onwards

Very interesting. I don’t see the plastic breaking really, it’s probably pretty stable but I would be keeping an eye on that little motor. Also dust and dirt but the trigger looks well covered.

 

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1 hour ago, Harrisown said:

Very interesting. I don’t see the plastic breaking really, it’s probably pretty stable but I would be keeping an eye on that little motor. Also dust and dirt but the trigger looks well covered.

 

Plastic gear teeth on a plastic corkscrew mechanism could mean broken teeth down the line.  Not sure how else they could do it though. I think as long as you’re not really fighting the triggers hard they should be fine. Like the gut in he video says though, the first batch will be monitored to see if they need to adjust anything. A bit like the rubber rot the thumb sticks got on early batches of the dual shock 4’s. Not an issue anymore I once they worked out what they needed to adjust. 

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4 hours ago, Harrisown said:

Very interesting. I don’t see the plastic breaking really, it’s probably pretty stable but I would be keeping an eye on that little motor. Also dust and dirt but the trigger looks well covered.

 

I dunno. I’m quite surprised it’s a plastic on plastic gearing providing resistance. Although not all plastics are the same, they’re not the greatest thing at providing resistance to competing forces over time.

 

There’s a lot of videos of broken Lego gears under motors, slipping gears, unexpected resistance. Those parts have far less deliberate resistance than this will have to put up with.

 

Be interesting to see failure rates in a years time.

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