PlayStation 5 - Next gen is expensive

[Shimmyhill]

8 minutes ago, mdn2 said:

Ubisoft posted something on their website about BC with certain games:

 

 

https://ubisoftconnect.com/en-US/news/ignt.23726/all-you-need-to-know-on-cross-progression-and-cross-play-with-ubisoft-connect/

 

So is there more games that won't be BC?

Nah Sony said only 9 weren’t so must be a typo.... more shit VR news with that, what makes them incompatible is the real question here?

 

@Robo_1 I don’t think you should be put off posting tech stuff, it’s fascinating - that Twitter link is pretty desperate fanboy stuff but interesting none the less if you read between the idiots desperately backing their horse.

 

Surely all we really want is both consoles to be similar in power so parity there for devs but each to have unique games and experiences to set them apart - like most here I will end up with both so the tech talk is fun.

[Pug]

21 minutes ago, bobontheway said:

My platestation order has been refunded due to “copyright issues”.

That's a bit shit. I'm sure Amazon/ebay will be awash with coloured covers in the near future.

[Alex W.]

41 minutes ago, mdn2 said:

Ubisoft posted something on their website about BC with certain games:

 

 

https://ubisoftconnect.com/en-US/news/ignt.23726/all-you-need-to-know-on-cross-progression-and-cross-play-with-ubisoft-connect/

 

So is there more games that won't be BC?

I guess either Ubisoft doesn’t think they are as compatible as Sony do, or there’s a publisher veto and for some reason (rights?) they can’t make the games available.

[jonamok]

Oh well, no black Platestation covers for me. Just had my PayPal order refunded. Was order #1085, so perhaps they’re not confident that they can make/supply that many, or maybe they’re just giving up.

Still, the idea is sound. Hopefully an official version isn’t too far away.

[footle]

48 minutes ago, JPL said:

Have you got a link to this? I wouldn’t mind reading about the differences they’ve found between the PS5 and Series X. I can’t see it on their site.

i would imagine the more mature SDK will really help the PS5: more than the “power”. The only thing I would find surprising is if the SSD speeds don’t make that much difference, and even then that would just be a multiplat thing.

[JPL]

1 minute ago, footle said:

i would imagine the more mature SDK will really help the PS5: more than the “power”. The only thing I would find surprising is if the SSD speeds don’t make that much difference, and even then that would just be a multiplat thing.

What’s an SDK?

 

I think they way they’ve said ‘surprises’ makes me think that either the Series S is more capable than expected, or the PS5 is on a par or producing better results than the Series X even though it’s not as powerful. Maybe something to do with that SDK you mention.

[Super Craig]

For what it's worth, I tried to use my amp as an HDMI splitter back in the day (2x HDMI out) to get around the PS VR HDR issue and I couldn't get it to work. I ended up selling it on and buying the V2 headset.

[Alex W.]

I expect it will be Series X/S related: the occasional game that runs more smoothly, albeit at a much lower resolution, on the lower end console.

[AceGrace]

38 minutes ago, JPL said:

What’s an SDK?

 

I think they way they’ve said ‘surprises’ makes me think that either the Series S is more capable than expected, or the PS5 is on a par or producing better results than the Series X even though it’s not as powerful. Maybe something to do with that SDK you mention.

Software Development Kit.

 

Basically, Sony have gone on record saying that developers can build PS5 games in the same way they currently build PS4 games and just add more stuff so developers are productive and comfortable. 

 

[AI]

Spiderman MM booting from PS5 dash to menu screen ~7 seconds, then menu screen to game loaded in ~2 seconds:

 

Can't embed

https://imgur.com/ojMm3pa

[JPL]

23 minutes ago, AceGrace said:

Software Development Kit.

 

Basically, Sony have gone on record saying that developers can build PS5 games in the same way they currently build PS4 games and just add more stuff so developers are productive and comfortable. 

 

Don’t MS have a mature SDK as well then? I thought both consoles were based on the same architecture as the current gen, so won’t their development environments just carry over? It’d be mental for MS to make dev start from scratch wouldn’t it?

 

As you can tell, I don’t really know what I’m talking about, but I do find it interesting!

[teddymeow]

10 minutes ago, AI said:

Spiderman MM booting from PS5 dash to menu screen ~7 seconds, then menu screen to game loaded in ~2 seconds:

 

Can't embed

https://imgur.com/ojMm3pa

 

Very nice.

[Quexex]

5 hours ago, Robo_1 said:

This just popped across my Twitter feed. With MS confirming that Series X is the only console to feature the full RDNA2 feature set, many have been speculating what that means for the PS5, so one inquisitive user has gone through recent patents filed by Cerny and the team and have worked out what they think Sony's custom solutions look like:

 

 

The patents look legit and the commentary tweets come from a self described game developer, but I can't speculate as to his qualifications. All sounds good though.

I was watching this unfold on Neogaf earlier in the week. It seems between the usual shit posting similar conclusions were drawn. Another thread was started with the Sony patents but it wasn't long before the trolls started up again. 

 

Personally I find it all fascinating. Do keep posting this stuff, most of us are adult enough to not let it descend in to console warz. The leading and most sensible theory I saw was MS went for RDNA2 parity to make the XSX to PC port much easier. Sony took a different route as they do not have that as part of there strategy. 

 

 

[AceGrace]

4 minutes ago, JPL said:

Don’t MS have a mature SDK as well then? I thought both consoles were based on the same architecture as the current gen, so won’t their development environments just carry over? It’d be mental for MS to make dev start from scratch wouldn’t it?

 

As you can tell, I don’t really know what I’m talking about, but I do find it interesting!

 

Yes they probably do but it was just Sony saying it. The architecture whilst x86 is very different the processor is a Ryzen instead of a Jaguar. Also the GPU will be a lot different. Maybe Sony have had it easier. Who knows?

[Robo_1]

2 hours ago, layten said:

I'd recommend the Beyond3d forums next gen hardware thread for anyone really interested in the technical nuts and bolts of both these machines.

https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/next-generation-hardware-speculation-with-a-technical-spin-post-gdc-2020-xbsx-ps5.61641/page-218

 

Oh I do stick my nose in from time to time. Obviously the very nature of that place is deeply technical, I honestly just post the tech stuff I do here because this is the community I've grown up with for twenty odd years now and I've always enjoyed the spec talk and mulling over the comparative solutions each manufacturer has come up with. For me it's just part of the "Rllmuk console launch experience", such as it is.

 

I find Twitter one of the easiest platforms to digest this information, as there's often a developer on-hand to translate these things into more understandable terms, but Twitter brings with it a lot of the "warz" stuff, which to be honest I just find amusing at this point, but I can see why others are more fatigued with it.

 

2 hours ago, Phil said:

Sorry, my comment wasn't aimed at you at all, apologies that I came across like that - it was absolutely not my intention. It's all interesting stuff, but it gets twisted in some quarters. Please don't change your posting habits on my account.

 

Anyway, I was referring to the inevitable tidal wave of fanboy nonsense the news that 'only Series X has the full RDNA2 feature set' will fuel more widely. We'll get a comparatively small amount of that here, but it's still tiresome none-the-less.

 

I appreciate that Phil, thanks. You're absolutely right of course, the various factions are all over this and "other forums" are hyper invested in this stuff. As I said above, I totally understand why some people are fatigued by it all. In future I'll try and parse the information myself and bring less of the Twitter stuff into the forum.
 

2 hours ago, Shimmyhill said:

 

@Robo_1 I don’t think you should be put off posting tech stuff, it’s fascinating - that Twitter link is pretty desperate fanboy stuff but interesting none the less if you read between the idiots desperately backing their horse.

 

Surely all we really want is both consoles to be similar in power so parity there for devs but each to have unique games and experiences to set them apart - like most here I will end up with both so the tech talk is fun.

Thanks Shimmy. I find Twitter an easy way to share information but indeed, if you click through and go through the comments it's nearly all uninformed screeching between the various factions. I think the original tweet was legit though. If memory serves I did actually create a PS5 / Xbox tech talk thread a few months back, I'm not sure if there would be any interest in resurrecting it or if it will just be seen as inviting fan warz though, although I don't think it's such a problem in this community. Maybe if Cerny ever has a proper sit down with Digital Foundry.

[JPL]

Just now, AceGrace said:

 

Yes they probably do but it was just Sony saying it. The architecture whilst x86 is very different the processor is a Ryzen instead of a Jaguar. Also the GPU will be a lot different. Maybe Sony have had it easier. Who knows?

Oh right, I thought it was a guess based on Digital Foundry mentioning they’ve still got some surprises to reveal.

 

As much as I don’t like this drip feed of information, at least it’s keeping us talking.

[AceGrace]

I reckon it is that the Series S isn't that much worse than the X.

[Robo_1]

2 minutes ago, Quexex said:

Personally I find it all fascinating. Do keep posting this stuff, most of us are adult enough to not let it descend in to console warz. The leading and most sensible theory I saw was MS went for RDNA2 parity to make the XSX to PC port much easier. Sony took a different route as they do not have that as part of there strategy. 

 

Cheers Quexex. That's an interesting theory though and would make sense. Opting for custom solutions would be no small extra investment of time and resources on Sony's part though, when AMD had comparable features ready to go. I'd really love to hear Cerny talk more about this stuff with the Digital Foundry folk and hear what his thinking was on these decisions.

[JPL]

2 minutes ago, AceGrace said:

I reckon it is that the Series S isn't that much worse than the X.

Yeah, you could be right.

 

We’re getting so close to launch now, I can see MS giving us plenty of stuff next week, then Sony the week after. Exciting times!

[Radish]

I'd have thought Sony would be next week too since the US release is a week ahead of ours. 

[Robo_1]

Load times are officially a thing of the past. Wow.

[SeanR]

3 hours ago, mdn2 said:

Ubisoft posted something on their website about BC with certain games:

 

 

https://ubisoftconnect.com/en-US/news/ignt.23726/all-you-need-to-know-on-cross-progression-and-cross-play-with-ubisoft-connect/

 

So is there more games that won't be BC?

 

AC Syndicate would have been a game I would have revisited to take advantage of faster everything. So that sucks.

 

Not that it was ever as bad as AC Unity...

[Shimmyhill]

3 hours ago, layten said:

I'd recommend the Beyond3d forums next gen hardware thread for anyone really interested in the technical nuts and bolts of both these machines.

https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/next-generation-hardware-speculation-with-a-technical-spin-post-gdc-2020-xbsx-ps5.61641/page-218

I’ve read some of that and my word it’s incredible to read so many people with so much knowledge that goes way over my head - is there a google translate for it!?

 

I actually forgot that I had posted PS5 wasn’t rdna2 and Xbox series was a while back and got shot down..... I got the scoops!

 

That Spider-Man load time is incredible, if next gen just had fast load times it would be worth it!

[rafaqat]

12 minutes ago, Shimmyhill said:

I’ve read some of that and my word it’s incredible to read so many people with so much knowledge that goes way over my head - is there a google translate for it!?

 

I actually forgot that I had posted PS5 wasn’t rdna2 and Xbox series was a while back and got shot down..... I got the scoops!

 

That Spider-Man load time is incredible, if next gen just had fast load times it would be worth it!

 

Wasn't there that Dev that posted about it on twitter and got death threats a month or two back? 

 

I'd love to see how the conversations go with the console manufacturers and the GPU manufacturers when they're talking what features they want from their current hardware and are effectively either asking for an existing chipset or a sub selection of features.

 

"yeah, we'll take VRR and your RTX Lite please, hold the DLSS, that part of your chip if too expensive"

 

 

 

[Uncle Mike]

27 minutes ago, Robo_1 said:

Load times are officially a thing of the past. Wow.

 

You can see why they might not have bothered worrying about quick resume.

 

Will be interesting to see what it does for your typical PS4 title. With all the middleware and dev logos to sit through you might wish for it there more, ironically.

[Lyrical Donut]

1 hour ago, JPL said:

Yeah, you could be right.

 

We’re getting so close to launch now, I can see MS giving us plenty of stuff next week, then Sony the week after. Exciting times!

And you learned a new acronym today. Good times.

[Alex W.]

21 minutes ago, rafaqat said:

 

Wasn't there that Dev that posted about it on twitter and got death threats a month or two back? 

 

I'd love to see how the conversations go with the console manufacturers and the GPU manufacturers when they're talking what features they want from their current hardware and are effectively either asking for an existing chipset or a sub selection of features.

 

"yeah, we'll take VRR and your RTX Lite please, hold the DLSS, that part of your chip if too expensive"

 

 

 

 

A senior graphics programmer at Sony I think, he said he considered it “RDNA 1 plus some stuff” because it lacked the full RDNA2 feature set. (Semantics?) I think it was the guy who popularised the Sony engineer who got the death threats, not the engineer himself.

 

Sony really should have been ahead of this, in the olden days we would’ve had Ken Kuturagi explaining why AMD’s VRS was a load of shite and Sony’s solution patented was better, souring the corporate relationship before the machine was even on sale. But at least they would’ve had a clear message on it that was less potentially negative than “PS5 isn’t current gen AMD graphics”.

[Alex W.]

The news going around is that it’s only missing DirectX features MS wouldn’t let them have, but is even that obvious PR line verified by Sony?

[layten]

4 minutes ago, Alex W. said:

The news going around is that it’s only missing DirectX features MS wouldn’t let them have, but is even that obvious PR line verified by Sony?

Unless it's some specific piece of chip design that they worked on with MS I'm not sure how they could restrict it. You can access the full functionality of a DX12U GPU in Vulkan.

[Alex W.]

Yeah, it didn’t make much sense to me either. It (DX 12 support) basically boils down to Microsoft requiring that RDNA2 has a specific feature set and letting AMD stick that badge on there.