PlayStation 5 - Next gen is expensive

[mdn2]

1 minute ago, MNFRMTMRRW said:

 

 

The good thing is that this means the PS5 Slim will likely come faster and be spectacular but not necessarily cheaper.

I'm all in for a slim revision. As someone who bought 3 different copies of Demons' Souls on the PS3 (one for each region), I've preordered the game, but refuse to have that monstrosity in my living room. It have to wait until the hardware gets a revision for me to play it. 

 

5 minutes ago, HarryBizzle said:

@mdn2 I think the PS4 took a much less cautious approach design. They wanted to squeeze as much into the space as possible. If you open a PS4, there's no space left unused. And just for comparison, PS4 heatsink:

 

 

 

Aye, I get it and completely understand why they've done what they have, but even still...Jesus Christ. 

[bobontheway]

9 minutes ago, mdn2 said:

I'm all in for a slim revision. As someone who bought 3 different copies of Demons' Souls on the PS3 (one for each region), I've preordered the game, but refuse to have that monstrosity in my living room. It have to wait until the hardware gets a revision for me to play it. 

Am I misreading this or have you pre-ordered Demon’s Souls for PS5 at RRP knowing that you won’t be playing it for at least 18 months? Why? Seems like a total waste of money when you’d probably be able to pick it up for peanuts when the PS5 Slim is eventually released.

[MNFRMTMRRW]

7 minutes ago, gooner4life said:

Did you watch the teardown? It's nothing like an early access prototype, the heatsink needs a bigger footprint and this odd shape to give comparable performance to a vapour chamber and the Liquid Metal solution requires more pressure to be applied on the heatsink at build, a vapour chamber could have been smaller and more practical in shape but they are fragile compared to heatpipes so couldnt be used.

Yes and it changes nothing about anything I said. And don't buy everything Sony says... they wouldn't tell you if they are just trying to save costs. 

[gooner4life]

Just now, MNFRMTMRRW said:

Yes and it changes nothing about anything I said. And don't buy everything Sony says... they wouldn't tell you if they are just trying to save costs. 

 

[footle]

15 minutes ago, gooner4life said:

 

Did you watch the teardown? It's nothing like an early access prototype, the heatsink needs a bigger footprint and this odd shape to give comparable performance to a vapour chamber and the Liquid Metal solution requires more pressure to be applied on the heatsink at build, a vapour chamber could have been smaller and more practical in shape but they are fragile compared to heatpipes so couldnt be used.

they decided to overclock the apu to within an inch of its life (to save costs) and after that every decision is based on working out how to deal with that (while saving costs). The choice of liquid metal as a thermal paste and a giant heatsink rather than a vapour chamber is, just that, a choice.

the payback of those choices is that it’s the size of a bus, and hilariously, because of the styling, won’t fit in some people’s tv cabinets. I’m still not sure why it needs those curvy wings other than that someone thought a big black block that was 90% of the size without those curves would somehow look less “cool”.

[Minion]

47 minutes ago, mdn2 said:

I know I'm bringing this back around, but Jesus Christ. 

 

 

 

It's magnificant!

[JPL]

You've got to admire Gooner's blind devotion to the PS5. It's utterly without compromise.

[MNFRMTMRRW]

4 minutes ago, footle said:

I’m still not sure why it needs those curvy wings other than that someone thought a big black block that was 90% of the size without those curves would somehow look less “cool”.

Those curvy flaps ensure that now matter how dense you pack it in your cabinet, the machine will be able to generate the required airflow to cool itself. The only thing of course that you need to ensure is that it is not in a closed cabinet. Without those flaps, people could compromise the airflow more easily. For the same reason, the base of the Xbox Series X is non-removable. It is a safety measure, not purely an aesthetical one. 

[gooner4life]

2 minutes ago, footle said:

they decided to overclock the apu to within an inch of its life (to save costs) and after that every decision is based on working out how to deal with that (while saving costs). The choice of liquid metal as a thermal paste and a giant heatsink rather than a vapour chamber is, just that, a choice.

the payback of those choices is that it’s the size of a bus, and hilariously, because of the styling, won’t fit in some people’s tv cabinets. I’m still not sure why it needs those curvy wings other than that someone thought a big black block that was 90% of the size without those curves would somehow look less “cool”.

 

The APU hasn't been overclocked, it was always at that clock speed, look at the big Navi cards, the clock speeds are in line with PS5, it's the Xbox Series X that's looking more RDNA 1.7ish with it's clock speeds.

[mdn2]

6 minutes ago, bobontheway said:

Am I misreading this or have you pre-ordered Demon’s Souls for PS5 at RRP knowing that you won’t be playing it for at least 18 months? Why? Seems like a total waste of money when you’d probably be able to pick it up for peanuts when the PS5 Slim is eventually released.

I managed to get a good discount on a copy (a little over £48 with a friend's discount) and even though I know it's a waste of money, I can't bring myself to cancel the order. Demons' is my favourite Souls game and I want to play it badly. Just not enough to own that iteration of the PS5. And yet, I can't cancel the preorder. 

[footle]

4 minutes ago, gooner4life said:

 

The APU hasn't been overclocked, it was always at that clock speed, look at the big Navi cards, the clock speeds are in line with PS5, it's the Xbox Series X that's looking more RDNA 1.7ish with it's clock speeds.

Your big navi cards will have... vapour chambers. And aren’t an APU. And will be much wider (more cores) because graphics is embarrassingly parallel.

[David Kenny]

11 minutes ago, JPL said:

You've got to admire Gooner's blind devotion to the PS5. It's utterly without compromise.

Remember Matthew 7:3, "And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"

 

Also take it to the console warz thread.

[Quexex]

23 minutes ago, gooner4life said:

 

The APU hasn't been overclocked, it was always at that clock speed, look at the big Navi cards, the clock speeds are in line with PS5, it's the Xbox Series X that's looking more RDNA 1.7ish with it's clock speeds.

Yeah a bit of reading around has suggested that in certain circumstances the PS5 actually has 15% more fill rate and triangle Drawing/Culling than the XSX. I think the difference between the two is going to be a lot less pronounced that the TFLOPs suggest. Let's face facts the TFLOP no. is some what redundant as the PS4 Pro has the same TFLOP count as the XSS. The XSS should totally outpace a PS4Pro. Time (and DF) will tell.

[JPL]

22 minutes ago, David Kenny said:

Remember Matthew 7:3, "And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"

 

Also take it to the console warz thread.

I just find it funny, that’s all.

 

And I’ve been very critical of MS recently. I even started a discussion about their lack of AAA titles the other day. It’s totally fine to see the negatives, along with the positives, in each company’s approach.

 

But, if you want to turn it into console wars bollocks, be my guest.

[Quexex]

1 hour ago, Marlew said:

 

Seems very unlikely, but I've heard nothing at all about it - which again makes me think it's very unlikely. 

 

Xbox had Atmos gaming on the One and Vision support for playback, and they've made a big deal of Atmos and Vision gaming on the Series. Dolby themselves announced this, too. 

 

Sony have continually talked up their Tempest 3D audio. I don't see why they'd invest so much in this if they also planned to offer (and pay for) Atmos audio.

 

I can well imagine Dolby Vision support for movie playback, not least because they don't have a Sony variant to push, but if it were coming for gaming, I think they'd have already mentioned it. And I think that's probably why they haven't even mentioned whether it's coming for playback - that'd be giving MS an easy tap-in. It would only highlight a deficit at this point. 

 

 

It might be to save on costs it's not licensed for every console and is activated when the user selects it in the settings. I think they did something similar on PS3 but can't be sure. I'm in the same boat, nearly bought a Xbox One X for the UHD Drive until I found out it was a poor quality player. Hopefully Sony hasn't muffed this one up as well!

[FiveFootNinja]

42 minutes ago, MNFRMTMRRW said:

It is a safety measure, not purely an aesthetical one. 

It's certainly hope it's not an aesthetic decision on the Series X, when it's horizontal looks like something you'd find on Groupon. Total afterthought.

 

45 minutes ago, footle said:

the payback of those choices is that it’s the size of a bus, and hilariously, because of the styling, won’t fit in some people’s tv cabinets.

And yet it is still more compatible with TV units than the Series X dimensions (in my case)

 

 

I know it sounds like I'm defending the PS5 here (I'm really not, it's an ugly monster), but it's not like either premium console is going to win any pretty awards this time around or be particularly practical, both wear the scars of their quest for more power (and heat) plainly for the world to see. The Series S is the only winner in the looks department this time around.

[Uncle Mike]

1 minute ago, FiveFootNinja said:

And yet it is still more compatible with TV units than the Series X dimensions.

 

I think this is going to be quite variable. TV units come in quite a few shapes, and each of them are going to struggle. The length/height of the PS5 is exceptional for a lot of units, whereas it's the square cross section of the X causing space issues.

[Uncle Mike]

7 minutes ago, JPL said:

But, if you want to turn it into console wars bollocks, be my guest.

 

This is a very un-self-aware post.

[FiveFootNinja]

1 minute ago, Uncle Mike said:

 

I think this is going to be quite variable. TV units come in quite a few shapes, and each of them are going to struggle. The length/height of the PS5 is exceptional for a lot of units, whereas it's the square cross section of the X causing space issues.

Yeah it's a fair point. I've edited my post for context.

[JPL]

Just now, Uncle Mike said:

 

This is a very un-self-aware post.

I’m a changed man, Mike. I don’t care for console wars bollocks any more than you care to keep pointing out Gooner’s magic pad.

[Sixkiller]

30 minutes ago, footle said:

the payback of those choices is that it’s the size of a bus, and hilariously, because of the styling, won’t fit in some people’s tv cabinets. I’m still not sure why it needs those curvy wings other than that someone thought a big black block that was 90% of the size without those curves would somehow look less “cool”.

 

the tv cabinet issue is also true of the direct competition, though, so Sony are hardly alone in having this issue.  The PS5 is bigger, but it's thinner, so there's actually a greater likelihood it will fit (and nicely) in a tv cabinet space designed for a dvd player/set top box.  If the PS5 had gone simply with a black box approach, they'd've looked very like the OG xbone, so instead they've gone bold and different, albeit not to everyones' tastes.

[gooner4life]

51 minutes ago, footle said:

Your big navi cards will have... vapour chambers. And aren’t an APU. And will be much wider (more cores) because graphics is embarrassingly parallel.

 

Biggest NAVI will have 80 CU's and a 2.5ghz clock speed, but NAVI 22 is pretty much the PS5 GPU, 40 CU's (ps5 has 4 disabled) at the same clock speed, it's not been overclocked at all, it's as it was designed, and your fanboyish posts are embarrassing full stop.

[SeanR]

5 minutes ago, Sixkiller said:

 

the tv cabinet issue is also true of the direct competition, though, so Sony are hardly alone in having this issue.  The PS5 is bigger, but it's thinner, so there's actually a greater likelihood it will fit (and nicely) in a tv cabinet space designed for a dvd player/set top box.  If the PS5 had gone simply with a black box approach, they'd've looked very like the OG xbone, so instead they've gone bold and different, albeit not to everyones' tastes.

 

isn't the PS5 like, half a metre tall?

[gooner4life]

Just now, SeanR said:

 

isn't the PS5 like, half a metre tall?

 

Only when it's standing up.

[SeanR]

Just now, gooner4life said:

 

Only when it's standing up.

[gooner4life]

30 minutes ago, Quexex said:

Yeah a bit of reading around has suggested that in certain circumstances the PS5 actually has 15% more fill rate and triangle Drawing/Culling than the XSX. I think the difference between the two is going to be a lot less pronounced that the TFLOPs suggest. Let's face facts the TFLOP no. is some what redundant as the PS4 Pro has the same TFLOP count as the XSS. The XSS should totally outpace a PS4Pro. Time (and DF) will tell.

 

Yeah that's correct, i expect we will see some engines perform better on PS5 and some on XSX, but where it favours fillrate and raster performance the difference will be wider in favour of PS5.

[MNFRMTMRRW]

56 minutes ago, FiveFootNinja said:

I know it sounds like I'm defending the PS5 here (I'm really not, it's an ugly monster), but it's not like either premium console is going to win any pretty awards this time around or be particularly practical, both wear the scars of their quest for more power (and heat) plainly for the world to see. The Series S is the only winner in the looks department this time around.

There is only one battle this generation: Game Pass versus everyone else. The console being 10% less/more powerful is not going to matter at all. The console wars are not the same anymore.... it is about business models now and content (like it is for Netflix and Spotify). Gaming's business model will collide with the one pioneered in Services Valley. 

 

I believe both models can co-exist for now so everyone will be happy. Exclusive titles in the near future will just mean shilling out $10/month to subscribe to a streaming service for 1 or 2 months a year so you can stream the other platform's greatest hits and move on with your life again. PC games are also in a very good position this generation.

[Kevvy Metal]

I have to say, I think this is one of the most amazing looking consoles ever, the more of these unboxing vids I see, the most I think it looks totally cool! 

It's such an out there, exotic, alien sculpture of a thing that I just love to look at. Where as the new Xbox's aesthetic design seems to be, to be as unobtrusive as possible, the PS5 on the other hand is a feast for the eye!

So many cool looking sweeping lines! I absolutely love it, and on the reveal I was properly "what the?". 

 

 

[grounded_dreams]

Decided on Miles Morales as my launch game after Cyberpunk 2077 delay, I'm looking forward to the bundled in Astro's Playroom after the impression videos from yesterday.

[Alex W.]

1 hour ago, Sixkiller said:

 

the tv cabinet issue is also true of the direct competition, though, so Sony are hardly alone in having this issue.  The PS5 is bigger, but it's thinner, so there's actually a greater likelihood it will fit (and nicely) in a tv cabinet space designed for a dvd player/set top box.

Sony say they did consider a squarer console with a split motherboard layout like the Xbox Series X, but concluded that a larger but somewhat thinner console which was easier to manufacture was the better decision.