PlayStation 5 - Next gen is expensive

[Steven]

1 minute ago, Pelekophoros said:

 We should know before September 22nd I guess. 

 

Sony should just announce a blow out State of Play for the 21st

[Minion]

5 minutes ago, Hawklord said:

 

I've uploaded them to the DeS thread

 

 

 

Thanks, I've been trying to stay out of there for fear of spoilers (I've never played it) but I will check your post, many thanks!

[jcafarley]

37 minutes ago, JPL said:

I was just thinking, if the average gamer buys 3 games a year at roughly £40 a pop, that’s £120.

 

GamePass Ultimate at £11 a month over the year comes to £132.

 

Thats only £12 more for hundreds of extra games! Seems like a no-brainer to me.

 

Not if the only games you buy or care about are Fifa, COD and Fortnite.

 

Obviously, Gamepass is absolutely brilliant, but I'm really interesting to see if Microsoft can grow it beyond the core they already have.

[Kevvy Metal]

35 minutes ago, JPL said:

I was just thinking, if the average gamer buys 3 games a year at roughly £40 a pop, that’s £120.

 

GamePass Ultimate at £11 a month over the year comes to £132.

 

Thats only £12 more for hundreds of extra games! Seems like a no-brainer to me.

Game Pass will not have the latest and most hyped titles on it - unless it’s MS first party - For that you’ll have to purchase and pay a premium. 
 

Game Pass is useful for playing smaller indie titles, mid-tier games and older AAA games that have been added. 
 

This is why for me, a PS5 for those “must have now” games and Sony 1st party, and a Series S, to use Game Pass for its selection of indie and mid tier, or games I might have missed and fancy a go of. And MS 1st party. 

[JPL]

4 minutes ago, Kevvy Metal said:

Game Pass will not have the latest and most hyped titles on it - unless it’s MS first party - For that you’ll have to purchase and pay a premium. 
 

Game Pass is useful for playing smaller indie titles, mid-tier games and older AAA games that have been added. 
 

This is why for me, a PS5 for those “must have now” games and Sony 1st party, and a Series S, to use Game Pass for its selection of indie and mid tier, or games I might have missed and fancy a go of. And MS 1st party. 

Yeah, I get that. I’ll be getting an X for GamePass and any must-have third party games, so I can play them on the most powerful console, and a PS5 digital for any of their first party stuff I need to play. I think they’ll complement each other perfectly.

 

It’s exactly what I’m doing now actually. One X for GP and the best third party stuff and a PS4 Slim for all their first party goodness.

[teddymeow]

29 minutes ago, Steven said:

 

Sony should just announce a blow out State of Play for the 21st

 

Mwahahahahahaaaaa!!! #EvilGenius

 

[Steven]

4 minutes ago, Kevvy Metal said:

Game Pass will not have the latest and most hyped titles on it - unless it’s MS first party - For that you’ll have to purchase and pay a premium. 
 

Game Pass is useful for playing smaller indie titles, mid-tier games and older AAA games that have been added. 
 

This is why for me, a PS5 for those “must have now” games and Sony 1st party, and a Series S, to use Game Pass for its selection of indie and mid tier, or games I might have missed and fancy a go of. And MS 1st party. 

 

Yeah, you having an amazing choice and at the same time no choice. Some stuff you just have to cough up for. I'd downloaded Phantom Pain but found it had left GP and it was going to set me back over thirty quid. It went on sale a while after but even then it was sixteen quid. It is a great thing to have, no doubt, but when you want something that isn't on it, you are paying full whack and not just for the newer stuff. When I do go for a next gen anything, it'll be disc-based.

[Majora]

11 minutes ago, Steven said:

 

Yeah, you having an amazing choice and at the same time no choice. Some stuff you just have to cough up for. I'd downloaded Phantom Pain but found it had left GP and it was going to set me back over thirty quid. It went on sale a while after but even then it was sixteen quid. It is a great thing to have, no doubt, but when you want something that isn't on it, you are paying full whack and not just for the newer stuff. When I do go for a next gen anything, it'll be disc-based.

 

I'm struggling to understand what you're getting at to be honest. How is this any different from, say, Netflix not having a movie available and you having to buy/rent it instead? It's part and parcel of streaming, you pay a low monthly cost for a lot of choice and accept that not everything you want to play will be on it and you'll have to pay for content every so often as well (I'll conveniently ignore music streaming since that's a different kettle of fish for whatever reason).

[Ferine]

5 hours ago, gooner4life said:

Sony are in big trouble

I'd save that assessment until you've seen what they're offering.

 

Microsoft have put forward a good value/service proposition, which naturally has people momentarily enthused, but I think it's fair to call their pitch somewhat unexciting; same controller, same OS, cross-generation games, etc. When you're asking someone to fork out for new hardware novelty can be a powerful factor, so I think the perceived 'newness' of the PS5 will be a big tick in its favour. On top of which Sony appear to have invested in having a lot of exclusives releasing throughout the first year, both first- and third-party, which is currently in stark contrast to Microsoft's recent showing of games which almost all appear to be years away.

 

No doubt Sony will have a tougher fight this generation – Microsoft pretty much took themselves out at the start of the last one – but they're still the market leader and thus in an enviable position. It feels like people expect them to immediately react to every move Microsoft makes, but they don't need to: they'll stick to their own schedule because there's no need to fight for attention, as evidenced by any metric you care to point at.

 

Ultimately both companies will have had a pretty accurate idea of what the other will be offering for quite some time, either due to loose lips or simple extrapolation; they were both working in the same possibility space with the same hardware partner. I can't imagine Sony are totally blindsided by the loss Microsoft must be taking on its hardware, aggressive as it might be.

 

 

[Captain Kelsten]

I reckon the ps5 will sell millions just off the back of the PS4 alone, especially amongst the more casual crowd. 

[Sarlaccfood]

Every time I see the thread bumped I think Sony have announced something.

 

So good to feel hype for the next gen again. 

[footle]

1 hour ago, Kevvy Metal said:

Game Pass will not have the latest and most hyped titles on it - unless it’s MS first party - For that you’ll have to purchase and pay a premium. 
 

Game Pass is useful for playing smaller indie titles, mid-tier games and older AAA games that have been added. 
 

This is why for me, a PS5 for those “must have now” games and Sony 1st party, and a Series S, to use Game Pass for its selection of indie and mid tier, or games I might have missed and fancy a go of. And MS 1st party. 

 

I'm not sure Crusader Kings 3 is mid-tier. If you're into the genre, it's certainly not.

I'm not sure that Destiny 2, 60fps edition is mid-tier. If you're into the genre, it's certainly not.

and so on.

 

I mean, Games Pass is entirely useless if you just want to play every Sony First Party Title. But if you just want to play those, you're paying far more than you'd pay for Games Pass anyway, aren't you?

 

And if you're really wanting the best experience of any game that isn't Sony 1st Party or Sony Money Hatted, you'd buy a Switch. (Or the Series X.)

 

(I think I'm hoping for a £399 price point, and it to drop to £350 at some point before the late 2021 releases - playing Spiderman again when there's Cyberpunk / Valhalla to play doesn't excite, and I'm never got on with Ratchet & Clank / Soulsborne, but Horizon 2 is very appealing).

[Steven]

1 hour ago, Majora said:

 

I'm struggling to understand what you're getting at to be honest. How is this any different from, say, Netflix not having a movie available and you having to buy/rent it instead? It's part and parcel of streaming, you pay a low monthly cost for a lot of choice and accept that not everything you want to play will be on it and you'll have to pay for content every so often as well (I'll conveniently ignore music streaming since that's a different kettle of fish for whatever reason).

 

If I couldn't find something I wanted on Netflix, I'd have a variety of places, options and prices to access that content. If I'm all digital, Sony or MS call the shots on what price I pay as they are the only ones I can buy it off. So instead of picking up Phantom Pain for three quid ( which I managed to do) my options were thirty- odd or sixteen in a sale. 

 

I suppose I could have framed my argument better as It was more about the price and options you have if going digital. Gamepass is ridiculously good value, there is no argument with that.

[Alex W.]

26 minutes ago, Steven said:

 

If I couldn't find something I wanted on Netflix, I'd have a variety of places, options and prices to access that content. If I'm all digital, Sony or MS call the shots on what price I pay as they are the only ones I can buy it off. So instead of picking up Phantom Pain for three quid ( which I managed to do) my options were thirty- odd or sixteen in a sale. 

 

MGSV: The Definitive Experience (which includes all the DLC and Ground Zeroes) is routinely £6.50, and now seems to be alternating months at £16 and £4:

 

https://psprices.com/region-gb/game/966070/metal-gear-solid-v-the-definitive-experience

 

I get the argument in principle that fewer places to buy games means fewer ways to cut prices, but the only games I've paid full price for on PS4 were digital exclusives I wanted on launch day.

[FiveFootNinja]

Sony execs will certainly be discussing the last 24 hours in their meetings today but it's not like this has come completely out of left field from Microsoft. Everyone knew the Series S was coming and I would put money on Sony having a good handle on what the min/max prices could be on it and running their own models accordingly.

 

Ultimately I don't think they will be flapping, they have a big generational brand and install base lead, a bloody fantastic selection of very well regarded IP to call upon that people are clambering to play and a comparable product tech wise (people will mumble but the fact is the Series X and PS5 will not be lightyears apart).

 

Obviously I hope it's as cheap as possible and I think they will trim their margins down to look more appealing if they can, but they aren't about to stomach a massive hit per unit because they don't need to. Their model is to sell a console that is the only place you will be able to play a collection of absolutely banging exclusive titles over the next 7-10 years that lots of people will want to play. Microsoft want you to subscribe to their game service and ultimately buy whatever hardware you want to do that.

 

Personally I'm fine with all this. I was always going to lean towards a PS5 based on the exclusive IP available (and the option of VR). The difference is whereas I had consigned myself to just sticking with my Xbox One for now (or picking up a refurb One X unit) the aggressive pricing has really made me consider dropping another £250 on a Series S to have as a decent upgrade for what is essentially now my dedicated Game Pass machine. I suppose you could say from their perspective they have both won.

[Alex W.]

Let me put what I’m thinking explicitly: lots of people think that digital only consoles are when the other boot will fall and we’ll be locked in to a digital only high priced dystopia. But what if it doesn’t? What if the digital market now, which works, which is pretty reasonably priced and finally solved the terrible long tail problem in games publishing, is what we’d still have?

 

There’s a reasonable example here in Steam, which basically ended physical PC game sales and held a near monopoly on games distribution online for a decade or so. And yet it didn’t turn in to a disaster.

[layten]

4 minutes ago, Alex W. said:

There’s a reasonable example here in Steam, which basically ended physical PC game sales and held a near monopoly on games distribution online for a decade or so. And yet it didn’t turn in to a disaster.

I'm not sure it is. The console platform holder have and always will have complete control over what gets sold. Steam never had such a luxury. If they had gone full Apple all it would have done is hasten other stores coming to the market, so had to temper themselves. You are never going to see competing marketplaces on any of the console platforms.

[Alex W.]

Yeah, those are bits of the comparison which don’t quite land. But in historical terms it seems the publishers using the PSN and MS stores are more interested in copying Steam’s aggressive sales and healthy diversity of content than in pushing prices as high as they can get away with.

[rafaqat]

4 hours ago, Majora said:

 

Anyone hoping for a $299 digital only PS5 is going to be profoundly disappointed, good lord. Stuff of fanboy wet dreams.

 

I can still hope!   It would  kick off the next gen with such a bang.  Entry at £250 for both MS/Sony with Nintendo being around there with their take too.

[Alex W.]

Surely there’s more than £250 worth of stuff in it just counting plastic and rim lights.

[pinholestar]

Yeah these proclamations of Sony being doomed are ridiculously premature and reactive. I never cease to be amazed at the lack of awareness of the wider market that you see on enthusiast forums such as these.

 

Microsoft are clearly going to put up more of a fight this coming generation and their pricing is excellent. I had no interest in an Xbox next gen but the Series S is such a fantastic value proposition as a Game Pass machine to sit alongside a PS5 as my main console that I’m going to pick one up. £250 is just fucking crazy for a next-gen console. Brilliant move by them, no doubt about it.

 

But Sony are the market leader by a pretty hefty margin and they’re in a very commanding position going into the next gen. There’s over 100 million PS4 owners who are invested in the PlayStation library and ecosystem to one degree or another. It would be folly to assume that every one of them will automatically transfer to PS5 but a hell of a lot of them will and are just waiting to do so. You only have to look at social media engagement metrics for anything PS5-related to see the huge interest that exists for it out there and Sony’s market research has evidently given them reassuring indications that have led them to ramp up production of PS5 to 10 million units in its first year. They wouldn’t be doing that just on a whim, so they’re obviously confident that what they’re offering is going to fly off the shelves and I’m quite sure it will.

 

Sony have an outstanding stable of first-party studios whose games routinely sold north of 10 million copies on PS4, an incredibly strong global brand awareness and cachet and a completely dominant position and relationships with suppliers, distributors and retailers in many markets where Xbox doesn’t really exist. They have rock solid and extensive third-party support with rumours of a host of exclusivity deals that they’ve signed and are making what seems to me like a concerted effort to have a very strong first year out of the gate. Spider-Man, Demon’s Souls, Ratchet and Clank, GT7 And Horizon Forbidden West along with all the big hitters from third-parties looks like a pretty fucking good software line-up In the first year of a console from where I’m sitting and once their marketing gets going I think they’ll be able to illustrate that they can offer a proper next-gen experience in a way that Microsoft just can’t at the moment.

 

Series S incredibly low price has certainly put a cat amongst the pigeons and I think we can safely say that there is going to be some healthy competition this next generation in a way that there wasn’t in this one, which is something everyone should be really happy about. But the notion that the execs at Sony are suddenly absolutely shitting themselves is nonsense. They’ll have been well aware of what Microsoft were planning in a broad sense (a cheaper, lower powered next-gen Xbox had been strongly rumoured for at least 2 years) but as long as they don’t completely shit the bed and price PS5 at £600 or something then they’ll continue to be the main game in town, bank on it.

 

When Xbox Game Studios get up to speed then we’ll see where we are but a lot of the stuff they showed in the software showcase the other month looked several years away at least. As excellent as their hardware options and Game Pass offering is (it’s enough to convince me to buy in at £250 which I wasn’t planning to do a week ago) the exclusive software support just isn’t there yet and that’s a huge differentiator when you’re trying to convince people to swap from one system to another. There are no tentpole exclusive games for the Series X|S launch and that’s a huge fuck up, however you spin it. For that reason I really don’t see some mass exodus from PlayStation to Xbox occurring over the next year or so.

 

I think Series S could well convince many like me to get one as a second console and at such a tempting price or with the phone contract-like payment options I can see it being a hit as a Fortnite and FIFA machine for a certain portion of the casual market. They’ve broadened their base and are playing a bit of a different game to Sony, I think that much is apparent.

 

But the notion that with a couple of tweets Microsoft have pulled the rug from under Sony’s feet and they never saw it coming? Nah.

[Kevvy Metal]

1 hour ago, footle said:

 

I'm not sure Crusader Kings 3 is mid-tier. If you're into the genre, it's certainly not.

I'm not sure that Destiny 2, 60fps edition is mid-tier. If you're into the genre, it's certainly not.

and so on.

Crusader Kings 3? I don’t think you can get anything more mid-tier, and Destiny 2 is really old just like I mentioned. 
 

...also a superb nail-on-head-hitting post from @pinholestar there! 

[TehStu]

5 hours ago, pinholestar said:

Series S incredibly low price has certainly put a cat amongst the pigeons and I think we can safely say that there is going to be some healthy competition this next generation in a way that there wasn’t in this one

Which is exactly what everyone invested in Sony should want. 

[Steven]

7 hours ago, Alex W. said:

 

MGSV: The Definitive Experience (which includes all the DLC and Ground Zeroes) is routinely £6.50, and now seems to be alternating months at £16 and £4:

 

https://psprices.com/region-gb/game/966070/metal-gear-solid-v-the-definitive-experience

 

I get the argument in principle that fewer places to buy games means fewer ways to cut prices, but the only games I've paid full price for on PS4 were digital exclusives I wanted on launch day.

 

The problem for me was that I was playing on an Xbox, where my digital options were thirty-odd and sixteen in a sale. If playing on digital those were my options. The alternating month thing is also just irritating when it's a five year old game that's consistently cheap elsewhere.

[Mr. Gerbik]

4 minutes ago, Steven said:

 

The problem for me was that I was playing on an Xbox, where my digital options were thirty-odd and sixteen in a sale. If playing on digital those were my options.

And of course, playing 'for free' on game pass. You can't ignore that option. If your argument is "but *I* didn't have a subscription back then before it left gp", well that's just a good argument in favor of subscribing sooner than later.

[Steven]

1 minute ago, Mr. Gerbik said:

And of course, playing 'for free' on game pass. You can't ignore that option. If your argument is "but *I* didn't have a subscription back then before it left gp", well that's just a good argument in favor of subscribing sooner than later.

 

I did have a subscription though, I downloaded it in two sessions and it asked me if I owned the game when I was done. I checked and found out it had left GP.

[Mr. Gerbik]

6 hours ago, pinholestar said:

But the notion that with a couple of tweets Microsoft have pulled the rug from under Sony’s feet and they never saw it coming? Nah

Yeah, I suspect that at best Sony will have had a lower and a higher price point in mind beforehand. The lower one still being acceptable to them. At best Microsoft's price megaton will make them decide on the lower one, but it won't cause panic leading to crazy pricing of the digital PS5. I would welcome it of course, because I want to buy one. But on brand strength alone PS5 will sell out on launch regardless, even without taking their incredible first party output into account. As others have said though, it benefits all of us regardless of which of the two platforms we buy, that Microsoft puts up a better fight than last time.

[Steven]

7 hours ago, FiveFootNinja said:

Personally I'm fine with all this. I was always going to lean towards a PS5 based on the exclusive IP available (and the option of VR). The difference is whereas I had consigned myself to just sticking with my Xbox One for now (or picking up a refurb One X unit) the aggressive pricing has really made me consider dropping another £250 on a Series S to have as a decent upgrade for what is essentially now my dedicated Game Pass machine. I suppose you could say from their perspective they have both won.

 

Yeah, first party and VR are the sellers for me. I wouldn't have even bought an XB this gen if RDR2 ran at a stable rate on PS as the exclusives did nothing for me. Gamepass is cool, so I'm keeping the 1X until something comes along to sell The Series X to me.

[Mr. Gerbik]

4 minutes ago, Steven said:

 

I did have a subscription though, I downloaded it in two sessions and it asked me if I owned the game when I was done. I checked and found out it had left GP.

That's what I'm saying - it's an incredibly specific example of you in that specific situation. I get that it was frustrating, but it was on GP for a good long while and you get a two weeks heads up before it leaves with an additional discount. So, as an example of a drawback I don't think it outweighs the benefits of having a gp sub in an all-digital dystopia. (Seeing both companies positioning a digital console as their default/cheaper entry point convinces me that there might not even be a disc option in the generation after the upcoming one)

[monkeydog]

The swinging doomometer that moves every time MS/Sony have a good/bad week is really silly.  Even a £449/£499 PS5 will do just fine at launch.