PlayStation 5 - Next gen is expensive

[Alex W.]

1 minute ago, mdn2 said:

Didn't Jim Ryan say "Why would anybody want to play this?" when shown older versions of Gran Turismo?

Sure, and Phil Harrison said rumble was a last generation feature. These are absurd PR rationalisations, not strategic stances.

[cubik]

1 minute ago, Alex W. said:

I don’t think EA will have the licence to distribute SSX titles with the soundtrack intact, and god knows who still has the Gitaroo-Man rights.
 

I’ve gone over it before so I’ll leave it at this, but the Xbox has the huge advantage that all 360 software and later was released for a console with an online store.

You're right in that licensing becomes one of the biggest issues with older titles, especially when there's music tracks or third party stuff like car brands etc. to consider.

 

I can but dream of a remastered run down Mesablanca with Run DMC banging out the speakers.

[mdn2]

1 minute ago, Alex W. said:

Sure, and Phil Harrison said rumble was a last generation feature. These are absurd PR rationalisations, not strategic stances.

Maybe, but it's still showing contempt for their own back catalogue. 

[Alex W.]

3 minutes ago, mdn2 said:

Maybe, but it's still showing contempt for their own back catalogue. 

Should I mention, like, two examples of them showing respect for their back catalogue in response? I’m not sure what point you’re making.

[HarryBizzle]

I’ve been able to buy and play PS1 games on my Vita and PS3 for years. It seems so odd that they can’t be bothered to bring them to PS4 or PS5. 

[Sarlaccfood]

12 minutes ago, HarryBizzle said:

I’ve been able to buy and play PS1 games on my Vita and PS3 for years. It seems so odd that they can’t be bothered to bring them to PS4 or PS5. 

I wonder if it’s usage stats from those consoles which made them think it wasn’t that important for PS4?

[Dudley]

49 minutes ago, Alex W. said:

Honestly the PS Mini was going to be difficult in a whole lot of ways the NES and SNES weren’t, and for similar reasons to why PS BC stopped being particularly well supported when disks went out of the picture. It’s a shame and a missed opportunity but “contempt” is not a great take IMO.

 

Nah, it's fair.  It was always going to be difficult yes but none of those ways involve a bare bones menu or putting 50hz versions of games on the thing even in NTSC territories.

 

There's no way of pretending they didn't at least half arse that machine.

[Mr. Gerbik]

Regardless of what makes sense business wise or what most players want, I know that *I* would really liket to see some form of decent BC on PS5. I love the enhanced BC on Xbox, making old games look and feel as bona fide remasters. And yes, I've bought loads of 360 and OG Xbox games from the store. Even if I still have the disc (and yes you can use OG Xbox and 360 discs on the Xbox One and XsX, they act as unlock keys for the digital version), just to have them digitally. I think it's absolutely brilliant and have replayed quite a few oldies this way. Maybe I'm in the minority, I really have no idea, but personally I would love to see it on PS5 also. I still have all my PS1 and PS2 games, but same as on Xbox I would gladly buy my favourites all over again digitally.

[footle]

27 minutes ago, HarryBizzle said:

I’ve been able to buy and play PS1 games on my Vita and PS3 for years. It seems so odd that they can’t be bothered to bring them to PS4 or PS5. 

PS1 and PS2 are a long long way back. It’s not like your 2D games which still work well - the vast majority (not all) of what is now “early” 3D games suffer by modern sensibilities because conventions we take for granted hadn’t formed yet. Without the magic of upscaling, even Ninja Gaiden is pretty shite.

and they’re stuffed with respect to PS3 (which, with the 360, is the generation where I’d say the conventions were well enough established).

 

Games I’d like to play are all trapped in licensing - vib ribbon, gitaroo man etc - or probably just from a licensing standpoint easier to reimplement. A lot of the other great stuff they’ve reissued, sometimes multiple times (Ico). I don’t know they’re is a great treasure trove with mass appeal they’ve not already ported?

(other games I’d like to replay tend to be the PGRs - licensing - or SSX Trickies - music licensing etc.)

 

[Sarlaccfood]

29 minutes ago, Mr. Gerbik said:

Regardless of what makes sense business wise or what most players want, I know that *I* would really liket to see some form of decent BC on PS5. I love the enhanced BC on Xbox, making old games look and feel as bona fide remasters. And yes, I've bought loads of 360 and OG Xbox games from the store. Even if I still have the disc (and yes you can use OG Xbox and 360 discs on the Xbox One and XsX, they act as unlock keys for the digital version), just to have them digitally. I think it's absolutely brilliant and have replayed quite a few oldies this way. Maybe I'm in the minority, I really have no idea, but personally I would love to see it on PS5 also. I still have all my PS1 and PS2 games, but same as on Xbox I would gladly buy my favourites all over again digitally.

I don’t think anyone is disputing that.

 

I’d give my right bollock to have all the metal gear games in one place. 

[HarryBizzle]

The PS3’s PS1 emulator works really well, has upscaling options, etc. 
 

I’m not really that bothered. I don’t really play old games - I just bought some of my old favourites to muck about with a few years ago (though most of them have had remakes now!). But when I can happily play them on a PSP, Vita or PS3, it just seems odd that they can’t be bothered any more.

 

I would love PS2 BC, though. My family has probably been through 6+ PS2s and it’s increasingly difficult getting the lens/laser repaired these days. 

[Alex W.]

Maybe if we’re lucky PS5 development will be such a pain in the arse that Sony will push for it to expand the catalogue.

[the_debaser]

I just want Burnout 3 please. And Ridge Racer 4. 

[Uncle Mike]

All I need, and I'll keep mentioning it in the publicly scrapable folder, is BC with the various PS3 digital titles. I have enough of those (Shatter, Super Stardust, Super Puzzle Fighter, Bionic Commando etc) that I'm still unwilling to let the PS3 go for.

[Cappuccino Kid]

10 hours ago, mdn2 said:

Didn't Jim Ryan say "Why would anybody want to play this?" when shown older versions of Gran Turismo?

To be fair, that is the correct reaction to all versions of Gran Turismo.

[HarryBizzle]

7 hours ago, Uncle Mike said:

All I need, and I'll keep mentioning it in the publicly scrapable folder, is BC with the various PS3 digital titles. I have enough of those (Shatter, Super Stardust, Super Puzzle Fighter, Bionic Commando etc) that I'm still unwilling to let the PS3 go for.

 

I think Shatter and Bionic Commando are on PC and should run on practically anything these days. Didn’t Stardust get a PS4 port? Not sure about Puzzle Fighter.

[Isaac]

12 hours ago, cubik said:

I can't believe anyone thought it would play PS1 games.

The PS4 doesn't even have a drive capable of reading CDs

I think everyone assumed it might be software emulation, no?

 

11 hours ago, Alex W. said:

I don’t think EA will have the licence to distribute SSX titles with the soundtrack intact, and god knows who still has the Gitaroo-Man rights.
 

I’ve gone over it before so I’ll leave it at this, but the Xbox has the huge advantage that all 360 software and later was released for a console with an online store.

 

SSX3 is available on Xbox with the full soundtrack intact and upscaled to 4k/60fps. I still play it pretty much once or twice a month.

[womblingfree]

Still got my PS3 Slim upstairs stuffed with practically the entire back catalogue they gave away with PS+. 
 

I think I’d get about a tenner for it and it’s still useful as a media-hub as well, so the only way it’s leaving the house is in a bin when it finally dies.

[Ethers]

10 hours ago, Mr. Gerbik said:

Regardless of what makes sense business wise or what most players want, I know that *I* would really liket to see some form of decent BC on PS5. I love the enhanced BC on Xbox, making old games look and feel as bona fide remasters. And yes, I've bought loads of 360 and OG Xbox games from the store. Even if I still have the disc (and yes you can use OG Xbox and 360 discs on the Xbox One and XsX, they act as unlock keys for the digital version), just to have them digitally. I think it's absolutely brilliant and have replayed quite a few oldies this way. Maybe I'm in the minority, I really have no idea, but personally I would love to see it on PS5 also. I still have all my PS1 and PS2 games, but same as on Xbox I would gladly buy my favourites all over again digitally.

I haven’t got my original Xbox discs anymore, but getting a freebie and playing it One X enhanced is very nice. Red Faction 2 last month was a nice surprise. 
 

I do have a lot of my PSX games however. Getting to put one of those in a PS5 and getting an enhanced version of the game would be brilliant. 

[Superunknown]

26 minutes ago, Isaac said:

SSX3 is available on Xbox with the full soundtrack intact and upscaled to 4k/60fps. I still play it pretty much once or twice a month.

 

It looks fantastic and still plays well.

 

SSX Tricky (the game footle mentioned) isn't available, nor Burnout 3, another fan favourite. I would guess that either EA had changed their standard contract terms by the time SSX 3 was released, or had already renegotiated the licensing because (I think) SSX 3 was BC on the 360. Alternatively EA/MS went out and relicensed all the original music for SSX 3, or perhaps the soundtracks for later EA games were sourced from a small number of record labels than older games, making relicensing less challenging?

 

It could also be that they're holding Tricky and Burnout back for remaster, but that seems less and less likely as time passes. Edit: just remembered that the voices in Tricky were provided by various screen actors and musicians too.

 

Whatever the reason, I'd love SSX Tricky, JSRF and PGR.

[HarryBizzle]

6 minutes ago, womblingfree said:

Still got my PS3 Slim upstairs stuffed with practically the entire back catalogue they gave away with PS+. 
 

I think I’d get about a tenner for it and it’s still useful as a media-hub as well, so the only way it’s leaving the house is in a bin when it finally dies.

I booted up mine yesterday and before updating to the latest firmware, checked if I could jailbreak it or whatever and apparently even the latest firmware can be jailbroken and lots of PS2 games work on it that way. Have a PS2 game on its way to me from eBay so am thinking of giving it a go. 
 

Netflix and everything else on it is so unbelievably slow that I can’t imagine using it as a media hub any more. 

[Clipper]

In terms of putting in your own discs licensing is only required for emulation where you have to have recompiled executables. If they wrote an emulator that read the disc and executed the game then there is no need for a license as all you are doing is supplying a piece of software that lets your disc "play".

 

I thought that the reason that licensing has reared it's ugly head with emulation recently is because either

 

a) You are selling the games as roms on mini console or on digital stores

or

b) Xbox one BC where they supply a new executable package even if you have the disc as the emulation isn't the same as being a simple wrapper.

 

Obviously having "recompiled" executables makes emulation much easier in terms of performance but means each game needs "permission" to be released.

[HarryBizzle]

Yeah, I think there’s a fair few publishers which opted out of BC for their games on Xbox - Batman Arkham, GTAV, etc. 
 

A lot of my favourite PS1 games - Crash Team Racing, Crash and Spyro Trilogy all have remakes out which Activision are very happily charging £30+ for so they’re unlikely to allow PS1 games to be resold. THPS1+2 remake is £40. 

[Dudley]

I say this fully recognising it's not a universal solution but good PCs are powerful enough to emulate Xbox, 360, PS2 and even PS3 now and the emulator compatibility is improving a lot quicker than the official solutions will, I spent a couple of hours on Burnout 2 this week (still superb btw).

 

An alternative worth keeping in mind at least.

[Alex W.]

How many of the Xbox BC games aren’t available to purchase digitally? Is it just the 20 supported games for the original Xbox?

 

I don’t think that disk BC is of any interest to these companies except as a convenient side effect of digital re-releases.

[Dudley]

The only one I can actually think of off hand is Forza Horizon 1.

[Droo]

It’s funny how the ps1 is 25 years old and when it was released no one cared too much about Atari 2600 backwards compatibility....

 

as much as I love retro games I feel they are best experienced on the hardware they were made for, and that includes the monitors or TVs of the time. 
 

It seems a bit ask for the small bunch of people who actually will care about it. 
 

Anyway, not to derail this, but I came to ask a question: is there any update on the release date of the PS5?

[Alex W.]

Do you think we’d be arguing about BC again if there was?  

[Hitcher]

7 minutes ago, Droo said:

It’s funny how the ps1 is 25 years old and when it was released no one cared too much about Atari 2600 backwards compatibility....

Why would Sony add that to the PS1 though?

[Isaac]

7 minutes ago, Droo said:

It’s funny how the ps1 is 25 years old and when it was released no one cared too much about Atari 2600 backwards compatibility....

 

as much as I love retro games I feel they are best experienced on the hardware they were made for, and that includes the monitors or TVs of the time. 

 

This is becoming less of an issue as we all become (even) older, given that CRT consoles died almost 15 years ago...