PlayStation 5 - Next gen is expensive

[Jg15]

37 minutes ago, Alex W. said:

Launch window! I bet it’ll be out before the end of the year.

I'm guessing early next year, but still, amazing that Insominac are getting two games out back to back.

[Mr. Gerbik]

Yeah, February or March I'm guessing for Ratchet. December would be a very weird moment to release it if they can't possibly make the whenever in November PS5 launch.

 

I'm also guessing that if there's just a few months difference in it, that Ratchet would have been a launch title if it weren't for Covid.

 

Regardless, Insomniac singlehandedly making the PS5 launch window worthwhile. Sony must be really happy with them right now. 

 

Edit: keep forgetting about the DeS remaster. Still, point still stands.

[sid]

55 minutes ago, Alex W. said:

Bugsnax is a lunch title.

 would read again

[Vemsie]

[Hitcher]

2 hours ago, Majora said:

During combat gameplay it just seemed like a fast grapple hook and when falling from dimension to dimension there's clearly still loading screens.

That's exactly what I thought. Nothing impressive so far then.

[Stanley]

Anything more of Demon’s Souls? 

[JPL]

39 minutes ago, Stanley said:

Anything more of Demon’s Souls? 

Nope.

[Gigawatt]

Ratchet and Clank looks pretty good to my eye, lots of lovely reflections on the shiny floor (which is clearly the most important gameplay enhancement). They seem to have changed the transitions on the dimension hopping part; where in the June PS5 demo there was a flat placeholder image which snapped out when the new bit was loaded in, this new demo has the portal opening in front of Ratchet which looks much smoother in my opinion. The dimension hopping bit still looks a little on-rails in this demo but if it really is loading full levels that fast it’s pretty impressive and bodes well for other stuff. 
 

The Topiary spray is amazing. 

[Calashnikov]

Ratchet and Clank looks and sounds like an absolute fucking headache.

 

I think the zero-loading dimension hopping shite will only serve to amplify this. It’s SSD-fuelled ADHD.

[HarryBizzle]

8 minutes ago, Gigawatt said:

The dimension hopping bit still looks a little on-rails in this demo but if it really is loading full levels that fast it’s pretty impressive and bodes well for other stuff. 

 

On a recent Digital Foundry vid, Leadbetter mentioned that the quick game resume between games on Series X requires writing 9GB of data from RAM onto the SSD and then reading another 9GB from the SSD into RAM. And it does this all in about 5 seconds. And the PS5 is even faster, right?

 

He did say that games need to be made to take advantage of it, though, so not to assume next gen is going to mean zero loading times from the off.

[footle]

1 minute ago, HarryBizzle said:

 

On a recent Digital Foundry vid, Leadbetter mentioned that the quick game resume between games on Series X requires writing 9GB of data from RAM onto the SSD and then reading another 9GB from the SSD into RAM. And it does this all in about 5 seconds. And the PS5 is even faster, right?

 

He did say that games need to be made to take advantage of it, though, so not to assume next gen is going to mean zero loading times from the off.

that is a different use case: it’s basically a system feature that’s saving the existing whole game state (ie everything in memory) as is, then loading a whole different game [cf. suspend/resume a virtual machine - the programmes in that virtual machine don’t know they’ve been suspended or resumed], as opposed to just forgetting what is currently in memory and reading.

whereas this type of level loading thing would need specifically coded for.

 

normally your ssd read is a fair bit faster than your write, so it seems unlikely there will be a lot of time spent swapping out four or five gb of level data (a second?) on either machine.

[Clipper]

7 minutes ago, HarryBizzle said:

 

On a recent Digital Foundry vid, Leadbetter mentioned that the quick game resume between games on Series X requires writing 9GB of data from RAM onto the SSD and then reading another 9GB from the SSD into RAM. And it does this all in about 5 seconds. And the PS5 is even faster, right?

 

He did say that games need to be made to take advantage of it, though, so not to assume next gen is going to mean zero loading times from the off.

5 secs for 9gb - 1.8gb / sec and the Series X nvme is apparently 2.4 gb/sec so that covers the "about".

 

PS5 super SSD is 5.5 gb/sec

[HarryBizzle]

Yeah, I was just pointing out that they can completely clear (after writing) and repopulate 9GB of RAM in 5 seconds. So games which are streaming much smaller amounts of data from the SSD should be able to do that ridiculously fast.

 

Just now, Clipper said:

5 secs for 9gb - 1.8gb / sec and the Series X nvme is apparently 2.4 gb/sec so that covers the "about".

 

 

It has to write the data first, which takes longer than reading it.

[Steven]

22 minutes ago, Calashnikov said:

Ratchet and Clank looks and sounds like an absolute fucking headache.

 

I think the zero-loading dimension hopping shite will only serve to amplify this. It’s SSD-fuelled ADHD.

 

I was wondering if it came with a pack of paracetamol when I watched it. Like a screen of white noise.

[Broker]

R&C games are so awful looking. Just shit everywhere with the most bland gameplay imaginable. The short loading screens between dull areas full of shite that could all be tiny isn’t impressive. Nor is having some teleport thing. It looks like a HD remake of a PS2 game.

[Steven]

2 minutes ago, Broker said:

R&C games are so awful looking. Just shit everywhere with the most bland gameplay imaginable. The short loading screens between dull areas full of shite that could all be tiny isn’t impressive. Nor is having some teleport thing. It looks like a HD remake of a PS2 game.

 

I think the only time I played one was a demo that came on the front of a mag for PS2. Lasted about five minutes before my eyes glazed over.

[Clipper]

21 minutes ago, HarryBizzle said:

 

 

 

 

It has to write the data first, which takes longer than reading it.

Writing it and reading 9gb takes 5 seconds? 3.6 gb per sec avg - that is within the "compressed" speed of 4.8gb/sec

 

ANd does writing data still take longer than reading when it comes to NVME? They used to split read/write speeds but for NVME all I see is one "IO" speed (2.4gb raw or 4.8gb compressed for Series X)

[Qazimod]

R&C looks fine, but I can already feel the dimension hopping losing its appeal quickly. They could cycle you between thousands of locations with instantaneous loading but it’s all scenery for an established gameplay formula.

 

It might be neat if this kind of thing was used in a more open format - even if you had two dimensions that amounted to “guns blazing or sneaky approach” and led back to the same area, it would offer some replay value...

[JPL]

Graphically it looked really good, but I’m not sure that the dimension hopping adds anything, other than the initial wow moment of being in a totally different world. It’s good to see how fast the new SSD can pull in new assets though, but I’m not sure the way they’ve used it here is anything special. Certainly not as cool as that Titanfall 2 level from a gameplay perspective anyway. I can’t wait to see what other devs do once they really get to grips with it.

[HarryBizzle]

17 minutes ago, Clipper said:

Writing it and reading 9gb takes 5 seconds? 3.6 gb per sec avg - that is within the "compressed" speed of 4.8gb/sec

 

I don't really know what point you're trying to make here with these calculations. 

[Clipper]

2 minutes ago, HarryBizzle said:

 

I don't really know what point you're trying to make here with these calculations. 

im not trying to make a point - just trying to understand what it means to read and write 9gb in 5 seconds and how that fits into the performance stats provided.

 

And then I had a question about NVME read vs write speeds.

 

that was all it was, a general "wondering"

[Majora]

My hope would be that they will use the very quick dimension hopping for some interesting puzzles. There's plenty of potential for the player to set these rifts up themselves in different worlds in order to facilitate completion of puzzles that span several completely different locations. What I don't want to see is just scripted set-pieces where the background changes every so often when you go through a rift.

[Jg15]

At this stage the new R&C is being used as a tech demo for the capabilities of the SSD, its obviously the only game Sony has in it's launch window arsenal that can demonstrate how this can be used from a gameplay perspective.

 

I personally enjoy The R&C series and it was a shame we didn't get more (other than a remake of the original) this gen. Onboard for this provided it is more than a glorified tech demo, looks great. 

[Robo_1]

Ratchet & Clank remains one of my favourite game series and this looks excellent. I hope to see more innovative weapons revealed but I'm pleased to see the auto upgrade system back in place and the scale of the game looks like a considerable step up.

 

It reminds me how much I would love another Resistance game. With the third instalment, I really felt the team got it absolutely right, the weapons were a delight to use and the enemy and level design were spot on. There's rarely been a gun more satisfying to use than the Bullseye.

[Kevvy Metal]

2 hours ago, JPL said:

Graphically it looked really good, but I’m not sure that the dimension hopping adds anything, other than the initial wow moment of being in a totally different world. It’s good to see how fast the new SSD can pull in new assets though, but I’m not sure the way they’ve used it here is anything special. Certainly not as cool as that Titanfall 2 level from a gameplay perspective anyway. I can’t wait to see what other devs do once they really get to grips with it.

 

It's literally loading in an entire new environment in a second. Everything is culled from memory and loaded in almost instantly. 

It's utterly incredible that is can do this, and R&C is the first game showing off what can be done with the technology that will absolutely be built on and mature as the generation progresses. 

 

Titanfall 2 is two variations of a basic environment that it flips on the fly. The environment is only really modified. This is loading in a crazy complex entire level almost instantly. 

 

Imagine fast travel that's not longer a tedious menu selection and instead a warping super power in the actual game. Or games that transition scenes instantly like a movie, without the need for fmv to mask the loading in the background, like how TLOU2 does it. 

[JPL]

19 minutes ago, Kevvy Metal said:

 

It's literally loading in an entire new environment in a second. Everything is culled from memory and loaded in almost instantly. 

It's utterly incredible that is can do this, and R&C is the first game showing off what can be done with the technology that will absolutely be built on a mature as the generation progresses. 

 

Titanfall 2 is two variations of a basic environment that it flips on the fly. The environment is only really modified. This is loading in a crazy complex entire level almost instantly. 

 

Imagine fast travel that's not longer a tedious menu selection and instead a warping super power in the actual game. Or games that transition scenes instantly like a movie, without the need for fmv to mask the loading in the background, like how TLOU2 does it. 

I know what it’s doing, but what they showed last night was just not a very exciting use of it to me. The reason I mentioned Titanfall was that is tied to the gameplay excellently, so, as you say, as the next gen matures I’m sure we’ll see some really clever uses of it that give us new ways to play and interact.

 

Maybe R&C has better uses of it, but they should have really shown those instances off.

[Alex W.]

To be fair that seems to be from the very start of the game when it’s just introducing portals.

[footle]

38 minutes ago, Kevvy Metal said:

Imagine fast travel that's not longer a tedious menu selection 

It’s the biggest potential improvement to the FH4 port (or any driving game), that and 4k/60, which should be easily achievable.

[JPL]

18 minutes ago, Alex W. said:

To be fair that seems to be from the very start of the game when it’s just introducing portals.

Yeah, one of the devs said something about them having more uses for it later on, so hopefully they really ramp it up.

[Mystacon]

2 hours ago, Broker said:

R&C games are so awful looking. Just shit everywhere with the most bland gameplay imaginable. The short loading screens between dull areas full of shite that could all be tiny isn’t impressive. Nor is having some teleport thing. It looks like a HD remake of a PS2 game.

Christ, you’re hard to please aren’t you?

 

Don’t get me wrong, Ratchet & Clank has never done anything for me, but I can’t deny that Rift Apart looks technically impressive at the very least. I imagine someone that has always enjoyed the series will be really excited for it.