PlayStation 5 - Next gen is expensive

[AI]

@Alex W. What did you come up with that stupid car analogy for?

 

Use dinosaurs instead.

 

If RDNA 1 is a diplodocus and RDNA 2 is a velociraptor, have Sony created a dino hybrid similar to what appears @10 seconds in this video?

 

 

[Vemsie]

https://www.psu.com/news/sony-patent-suggests-dlss-like-sampling-technique-could-be-used-on-ps5-games/

[Alex W.]

That does sound a lot like DLSS.
 

That article says that the UE5 demo used DLSS - that’s not the case is it? I can’t see confirmation of that anywhere. It was running at something like 1440p but I don’t think it then had DLSS applied. If Epic already have a version of DLSS running on the next gen consoles that’d be a big deal.

[layten]

45 minutes ago, Vemsie said:

https://www.psu.com/news/sony-patent-suggests-dlss-like-sampling-technique-could-be-used-on-ps5-games/

They would be crazy not to be doing something along those lines. Microsoft gave a presentation a couple of years back on the subject as well so you can be sure they are both cooking something up. I wonder how well it will work on the Console GPU's though given that Nvidia's Turing chips have pretty ludicrous amounts of AI compute power from the Tensor cores.

[jonamok]

2 hours ago, layten said:

Nvidia's Turing chips have pretty ludicrous amounts of AI compute power from the Tensor cores.

Not gonna lie, I’m sporting a semi.

[rafaqat]

Ok, I thought initially they meant software but they're talking about AMD and Sony working it into hardware.   Suh-weeeeet

 

[Uzi]

For those wondering what DLSS is - basically cybernet being fed enough data and guessing trillions of times over on how to fill missing data in a scene until it gets it right.

 

It is one of the coolest tech that Nvidia has developed - demo from the CEO himself

 

 

[FiveFootNinja]

That's really impressive.

 

Are the trained neural networks for this sort of technique shipped on the chips? Software versioned? Or cloud-based? (e.g. are you hardware bound or could you get ever improving results as they crunch more images to learn from and update it). Also does this effect the framerate at all?

[footle]

6 minutes ago, FiveFootNinja said:

That's really impressive.

 

Are the trained neural networks for this sort of technique shipped on the chips? Software versioned? Or cloud-based? (e.g. are you hardware bound or could you get ever improving results as they crunch more images to learn from and update it). Also does this effect the framerate at all?

 

Software. A few %; but Sony/Microsoft's kit is a bit weaker. It's worth reading a few Digital Foundry things on the subject.

 

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2020-image-reconstruction-death-stranding-face-off

 

Quote

On an RTX 2080 Ti at 4K, DLSS completes in around 1.5ms - meaning it's faster than checkerboarding on PS4 Pro. However, the hardware comparison is obviously lopsided. The weakest capable GPU is the RTX 2060 (still significantly more powerful than the Pro) and DLSS has an overhead in excess of 2.5ms on this card. That's heavy, especially if you're targeting 60fps where the entire frame rendering budget is just 16.7ms.

 

The trade off being not having to render at 4k for a start. But noting that these new GPUs aren't RTX 2060 equivalents:

 

There's an important point of differentiation between Nvidia's hardware and AMD's, however. The green team is deeply invested in AI acceleration across its entire business and it's investing significantly in die-space on the processor for dedicated AI tasks. AMD has not shared its plans for machine learning support with RDNA 2, and there is some confusion about its implementation in the next-gen consoles. Microsoft has confirmed support for accelerated INT4/INT8 processing for Xbox Series X (for the record, DLSS uses INT8) but Sony has not confirmed ML support for PlayStation 5 nor a clutch of other RDNA 2 features that are present for the next generation Xbox and in PC via DirectX 12 Ultimate support on upcoming AMD products.

Broadly speaking then, the Xbox Series X GPU has around 50 per cent of the RTX 2060's machine learning processing power. A notional DLSS port would see AI upscaling take 5ms to complete, rather than a 2060's circa 2.5ms. That's heavy, but still nowhere near as expensive as generating a full 4K image - and that's assuming that Microsoft isn't working on its own machine learning upscaling solution better suited to console development (spoilers: it is - or at least it was a few years back). In the meantime though, DLSS is the most exciting tech of its type - we're sure to see the technology evolve and for Nvidia to leverage a key hardware/software advantage. The only barrier I can see is its status as a proprietary technology requiring bespoke integration. DLSS only works as long as developers add it to their games, after all.

[layten]

9 minutes ago, FiveFootNinja said:

That's really impressive.

 

Are the trained neural networks for this sort of technique shipped on the chips? Software versioned? Or cloud-based? (e.g. are you hardware bound or could you get ever improving results as they crunch more images to learn from and update it). Also does this effect the framerate at all?

Nvidia supply updated neural networks via driver updates.

[FiveFootNinja]

Nice, thanks for the info. I'll have a further read.

 

Having not dabbled in PC builds for about 15 years I've only had a passing look into underlying tech of late. The last gaming machine I built was sporting a shiny new GeForce4 4200 Ti  

 

EDIT: The video on the Digital Foundry link above is excellent, cheers.

[FiveFootNinja]

The person who suggested the August 6th State of Play has tweeted this possible leak (via 4Chan) of the possible running order including a Silent Hill reveal...

 

 

Also possible GoW2 mention amongst other things, further bits on games we know about, something about hardware and backwards compatibility and PS Now in their running order too. Nothing on VR mentioned again.

 

Caveat: Could well be utter nonsense!

[gospvg]

OOh hope it is true RDR 2 PS5 enhancement & Hogwarts.

[Uncle Mike]

Without wanting to sound like a dick, what's the reason why we should pay attention to that? Some guy on  - is that 4chan? - somehow has the whole running order for a talk we don't know exists yet. Sounds legit.

[footle]

Ending on Vagrant Story? Right.

[Alex W.]

They got a plausible mixture of a few exciting things and utter tedium in the first screenshot so at least they’re learning to imitate the style of the real conferences in these things.

[Ry]

Do you think it's likely that PS4 steering wheels will be compatible?

 

I know PS3 ones were not on PS4 and Sony are generally dipshits in letting people use existing accessories. 

[FiveFootNinja]

1 minute ago, Ry said:

Do you think it's likely that PS4 steering wheels will be compatible?

 

I know PS3 ones were not on PS4 and Sony are generally dipshits in letting people use existing accessories. 

 

No idea. I have the same question on HOTAS support too.

[Darwock]

The latest AC7 flight stick has a toggle switch for PS3 or PS4 use. I can just imagine that means it won’t work at all on PS5. It identifies in the controller settings as a DS3 or 4 though, not as a flight stick. Fingers crossed, but I’m not hopeful.

[MansizeRooster]

Vagrant Story 2 is horseshit. Konami working with Japan Studio on SH? Horseshit.

[Theholyhogg]

6 hours ago, FiveFootNinja said:

The person who suggested the August 6th State of Play has tweeted this possible leak (via 4Chan) of the possible running order including a Silent Hill reveal...

 

 

Also possible GoW2 mention amongst other things, further bits on games we know about, something about hardware and backwards compatibility and PS Now in their running order too. Nothing on VR mentioned again.

 

Caveat: Could well be utter nonsense!

Smt nocturne?????

Thats lucifers call on the ps2 right???

Sayyy whatttttt 

[Theholyhogg]

and p4 golden 

Ahhh i hope this is real

[mdn2]

3 minutes ago, Theholyhogg said:

Smt nocturne?????

Thats lucifers call on the ps2 right???

Sayyy whatttttt 

SMT: Nocturne is getting both a PS4 and Switch release next year. That's been known for a couple of weeks now. 

 

[Theholyhogg]

Just now, mdn2 said:

SMT: Nocturne is getting both a PS4 and Switch release next year. That's been known for a couple of weeks now. 

no way ive read nothing about it on here??

What about p4g? 

[mdn2]

Just now, Theholyhogg said:

no way ive read nothing about it on here??

What about p4g? 

There's a bit about it in the Switch SMT: V thread. There's nothing about P4G, I think the rest of the list is bollocks, personally. Silent Hill might be a thing, it's been rumoured for a while. But Vagrant Story? Nah, I can't see that. 

[Theholyhogg]

This is my favorite part just before a new console is released,all the speculation regarding games they are going to show,gets me so hyped.

[Boozy The Clown]

I want enchantments for RDR2 too.

[HarryBizzle]

Hurry up and confirm the damn SoP, Sony. 

[Dirty Harry Potter]

On 30/07/2020 at 19:23, Theholyhogg said:

This is my favorite part just before a new console is released,all the speculation regarding games they are going to show,gets me so hyped.

 

I think the build up to this next gen has been the least exciting of all time.

 

A long drawn out - dribble of announcements - mixed with games look the same as the current gen - just makes me feel very meh.

[Vemsie]

Leak seems fake. The next CoD is called Cold War, not Vietnam. I think they will go in-depth on the launch games, reveal some system features (and perhaps the release date) and they'll have a surprise or two as multiple reliable sources have said Sony still has some stuff to announce.