PlayStation 5 - Next gen is expensive

[layten]

32 minutes ago, Alex W. said:

based on an obscure internet rumour

When said 'internet rumour' is started by an ill thought out DM by the 'Principal Graphics Engineer at Sony Interactive Entertainment Europe' it has a certain weight to it.

[Uzi]

While I'm sure it may have some usually but hard to come to the conclusion that PS5 is not primarily RDNA2 based when from AMD themselves says :

 

[layten]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

It wouldn't be the first time Sony got AMD to back port GPU features. It just seems that there has been enough leaked info to indicate something interesting is going on with the PS5. We will find out sooner or later any how.

[Alex W.]

7 minutes ago, layten said:

When said 'internet rumour' is started by an ill thought out DM by the 'Principal Graphics Engineer at Sony Interactive Entertainment Europe' it has a certain weight to it.

A “principal graphics engineer“ who apparently has insight in to RDNA 3 and 4: an architecture which only exists on AMD’s roadmap as the inevitable successor to RDNA 2, and one which doesn’t exist on AMD’s public road map at all. Hey, maybe his uncle works at AMD.
 

He’s describing the AMD graphics architectures like they’re just rough umbrella terms for feature sets for branding purposes which is just nonsense to me. You’re either using the RDNA 1 architecture or the RDNA 2 architecture, customisations or not.
 

Either something is being badly lost in translation or it’s an elaborate troll.

[layten]

2 minutes ago, Alex W. said:

A “principal graphics engineer“ who apparently has insight in to RDNA 3 and 4: an architecture which only exists on AMD’s roadmap as the inevitable successor to RDNA 2, and one which doesn’t exist on AMD’s public road map at all. Hey, maybe his uncle works at AMD.
 

He’s describing the AMD graphics architectures like they’re just rough umbrella terms for feature sets for branding purposes which is just nonsense to me. You’re either using the RDNA 1 architecture or the RDNA 2 architecture, customisations or not.
 

Either something is being badly lost in translation or it’s an elaborate troll.

Like I said in my post above. Sony have history with getting AMD to back port GPU features from a more recent architecture. They did this with the PS4 GPU. I doubt the PS5 is a pure RDNA1 design, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a chimera of the two.

[HarryBizzle]

If it’s got a mix of features from the two then how does it being “either one or the other” make any sense?

[Alex W.]

Hey, I could be wrong, but if RDNA 2 is enough of a warmed-over upgrade of RDNA that you could make a tweaked RDNA card and call it whatever you want, somehow I doubt those fantasies about the two consoles having a massive performance difference because of it are going to pan out.

 

It all reads to me like a whole lot of people with a little technical knowledge taking something and extrapolating it in to bullshit.

[Alex W.]

When I talk about extrapolation: that excited screengrab of the DM from this engineer has a caption that trumpets this as evidence that the PS5 doesn’t do VRS - but we know from press comments from development teams on actual PS5 games that it does, and they’re excited about it and it’s one of the things Sony championed as part of the RDNA 2 feature set when they announced the console. I don’t think anyone’s using it yet on either machine but that shouldn’t be a shock.

 

I don’t think the opinion of one guy who happens to work for Sony should outweigh the rather overwhelming evidence everywhere else.

[AI]

To use a car analogy, I'm assuming RDNA 1 is the equivalent of a Lada and RDNA 2 is the equivalent of a Bugatti and what certain people are assuming (read: hoping for) is that Sony have taken a Lada and bolted on the wheels, doors, headlights and windscreen wipers of the Bugatti and gone 'look at our Bugatti, isn't it lovely!'

[layten]

14 minutes ago, Alex W. said:

warmed-over upgrade

AMD's stock in trade for the past half decade or so.  They beat that GCN horse into a fine mist.

[layten]

2 minutes ago, AI1 said:

To use a car analogy, I'm assuming RDNA 1 is the equivalent of a Lada and RDNA 2 is the equivalent of a Bugatti and what certain people are assuming (read: hoping for) is that Sony have taken a Lada and bolted on the wheels, doors, headlights and windscreen wipers of the Bugatti and gone 'look at our Bugatti, isn't it lovely!'

No, I would assume they have a very similar level of base performance. If it's anything like how they versioned GCN based parts the fundamentals will be very similar.

[Alex W.]

From the engineer’s comments it sounds more like a case of taking a Bugatti, removing the rear bumper and calling it a Lada. He says there’s one (one!) RDNA 2 feature it doesn’t support and in his eyes that makes it RDNA 1. (It could be something that’s completely obviated by some other piece of the design as far as we know.) But if it’s the RDNA 2 microarchitecture with a missing feature it’s that microarchitecture missing a feature. It’s not RDNA1 with almost every RDNA 2 thing added to it.

 

And now he’s hedging by saying, well, it’s not exactly RDNA anything because it’s a custom part. Well, I guess Mark Cerny, AMD and the rest disagree.

[gooner4life]

I don't care if the PS5 is using an intel celeron and onboard graphics as long as it's exclusive games dont look like Halo infinite 

[layten]

3 minutes ago, gooner4life said:

I don't care if the PS5 is using an intel celeron and onboard graphics as long as it's exclusive games dont look like Halo infinite 

I think we can all agree to that. Poor Clive.

[HarryBizzle]

10 hours ago, Alex W. said:

From the engineer’s comments it sounds more like a case of taking a Bugatti, removing the rear bumper and calling it a Lada.

 

I think it's more that he's said it's a mixture of Bugatti and Lada parts. Which is fine but seems to be upsetting an awful lot of people who seem to think it's going to mean the PS5 is going to be awful.

 

After all the hoo-ha of DDR5 vs DDR3+esRAM last generation, the base PS4 wasn't earth shatteringly more powerful than the base Xbox One. Customising your "custom RDNA2" part with a couple of RDNA1 features is probably not going to mean much at this poin, and nowhere near as much as the Xbox just having more CUs and RT cores.

[Alex W.]

3 minutes ago, HarryBizzle said:

 

I think it's more that he's said it's a mixture of Bugatti and Lada parts. Which is fine but seems to be upsetting an awful lot of people who seem to think it's going to mean the PS5 is going to be awful.

 

After all the hoo-ha of DDR5 vs DDR3+esRAM last generation, the base PS4 wasn't earth shatteringly more powerful than the base Xbox One. Customising your "custom RDNA2" part with a couple of RDNA1 features is probably not going to mean much at this poin, and nowhere near as much as the Xbox just having more CUs and RT cores.

But a microarchitecture isn’t a set of “parts”, if it’s the RDNA 2 microarchitecture but it doesn’t have hardware ray tracing (hypothetically), it doesn’t suddenly become the RDNA 1 microarchitecture. Maybe from a programmer’s perspective it looks like a set of features from both generations but it’s going to be a bit of silicon from a specific design generation, with all those implications for power efficiency etc etc etc

[Uzi]

I think lay people interpreting a tweet from an engineer who never meant it to be out there in the public is definitely going down well.

[rafaqat]

6 hours ago, Alex W. said:

But a microarchitecture isn’t a set of “parts”, if it’s the RDNA 2 microarchitecture but it doesn’t have hardware ray tracing (hypothetically), it doesn’t suddenly become the RDNA 1 microarchitecture. Maybe from a programmer’s perspective it looks like a set of features from both generations but it’s going to be a bit of silicon from a specific design generation, with all those implications for power efficiency etc etc etc

 

To carry your car analogy on to breaking point, RDNA1 could be a Diesel Range Rover and RDNA2 could be it's electric big brother with heated seats and assisted driving.   If you said you'd bought the super new electric version but had asked for some customisations in that you didn't want the electric engine but have a diesel engine instead but would like to keep the heated seats then you've effectively upgraded the basic diesel Range Rover not customised the Electric Range rover to your personal tastes

 

Anyway. They're going to be much of muchness in the end. 80% of this forum is going to buy a PS5.   It's fun to speculate when there's fuck all else going on.

 

 

 

[Alex W.]

That’s a ridiculous comparison. It really doesn’t sound (from that engineer’s “clarification”) like it’s missing much of the RDNA 2 feature set at all. Which makes sense seeing as literally everybody else refers to it as an RDNA 2 part.

[Uzi]

5 minutes ago, Alex W. said:

That’s a ridiculous comparison. It really doesn’t sound (from that engineer’s “clarification”) like it’s missing much of the RDNA 2 feature set at all. Which makes sense seeing as literally everybody else refers to it as an RDNA 2 part.

 

 

Forum engineers describe how the PS5 is actually a mishmash of stupid car analogies and show what is ACTUALLY under the surface #don'tbelieveAMDlies

 

[Hitcher]

If only it was like that then it would be backwards compatible!

[teddymeow]

Pretty sure a few people, including myself, said it's be great if the side fins were swappable.

 

Website shows side panels seperately from console.

 

It may be true...

[HarryBizzle]

I really hope they announce that rumoured State of Play for next week. I want info and I want it now. 

[Alex W.]

16 minutes ago, teddymeow said:

Pretty sure a few people, including myself, said it's be great if the side fins were swappable.

 

Website shows side panels seperately from console.

 

It may be true...

I figure it’ll be something like the PS4 Slim and Pro where the cover is held on with plastic clips for convenience, so it’s not meant to be user serviceable but you can basically get in there without undoing any scores or breaking any warranty seals.
 

They talked about showing off the cooling in a tear down way back when they did the GDC thing, I’d have to think that’ll be separate from the actual launch announcement right? Because the launch event would have to cover BC, accessory compatibility, price, launch date, and all that.

[Vemsie]

 

[Ferine]

Pretty sure that feature was mentioned in one of the Wired articles, and I believe there were some patents kicking around.

 

I'd guess it's also one of the things that'll fall under the Create button, essentially acting as a system-level hook for custom time trials or score attacks you can send to Friends.

[Harsin]

Please have a decent OS. I read an article saying MS have confirmed the Series X one will largely be the same as what they now. The PS4 one is desperately in need of an update, going back to it while I game in Modern Warfare Is painful, and that’s on a Pro.

[Alex W.]

Sort of like Stadia’s interactive shareable clips thing but without any game streaming involved. Did Stadia ever ship that or is it on the to-do list?

[footle]

6 minutes ago, Ferine said:

 

 

I'd guess it's also one of the things that'll fall under the Create button, essentially acting as a system-level hook for custom time trials or score attacks you can send to Friends.

Great idea.

[rafaqat]

23 hours ago, Alex W. said:

That’s a ridiculous comparison. It really doesn’t sound (from that engineer’s “clarification”) like it’s missing much of the RDNA 2 feature set at all. Which makes sense seeing as literally everybody else refers to it as an RDNA 2 part.

 

Well of course it's a ridiculous point. That's why I said it was going to take you analogy to breaking point!