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PlayStation 5 - Next gen is expensive

Eighthours

By Eighthours
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Uzi

Uzi

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Ry said:

Anybody think that Amazon leak of price is a good outliner?

 

I know it could be total bullshit and it's just a placeholder but I imagine Amazon would be the first company after Sony to know the price. 

 

Until Sony confirm its anyone's guess. 499 makes sense though but I don't see the digital being (£/e)100 cheaper. Maybe 50 to 75.

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footle

footle

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Flanders said:


This is a very good point. Both the levels you mentioned are widely rightly regarded as two of the most inventive pieces of design in recent years, but both are also small scale relative to the games they’re in.

 

Crack in the Slab is noticeably smaller and less architecturally complex than the rest of Dishonored 2’s levels and Effect and Cause has very little Titan gameplay. 
 

The SSD tech presents the opportunity to take these concepts and massively expand them. You could definitely build a whole game around that kind of time shift mechanism if you could dial up the complexity of the zones you’re moving between. 


thing is, they’re interesting pieces of design because they’re different. Once every game has seamless level shifts, perhaps less so.

 

though God of War, War Some More will be vastly improved by being able to just jump through a portal into whichever other realm, without extensive and lengthy hidden lift sequences.

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Alex W.

Alex W.

Posted
Posted

Edge’s Unreal Engine thing this month includes the interesting proposal from one of their engineers that - and I’m making up my own metaphor here - now that your local storage is as fast as RAM used to be, you can use a fast network connection the way we used to use local storage. Have absolutely enormous games with tens of gigabytes of assets available in real time at the player’s location, and potentially unlimited assets coming in off the web for the experience as a whole.

 

That’s where Flight Simulator is right now, isn’t it?

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footle

footle

Posted
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27 minutes ago, Alex W. said:

Edge’s Unreal Engine thing this month includes the interesting proposal from one of their engineers that - and I’m making up my own metaphor here - now that your local storage is as fast as RAM used to be, you can use a fast network connection the way we used to use local storage. Have absolutely enormous games with tens of gigabytes of assets available in real time at the player’s location, and potentially unlimited assets coming in off the web for the experience as a whole.

 

That’s where Flight Simulator is right now, isn’t it?


 A reasonable SSD cache would do wonders for flight sim, but in practice the datasets are probably not large.

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Uncle Mike

Uncle Mike

Posted
Posted

Was anyone thinking Forbidden West was anything like a launch title after its showing in the event? I'd thought it was going to be prior to seeing the reveal, but I thought it was pretty clear from that that it was a way off.

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layten

layten

Posted
Posted
Just now, Alex W. said:

Digital Foundry on how PS5 developers seem to be using ray tracing based on the videos shown so far. Answer - carefully, conservatively, for the most part.

 

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2020-playstation-5-ray-tracing-software-analysis

They seem to be taking image quality hits on it as well. DF are gonna be like pigs in shit when these new consoles launch. :lol: 

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layten

layten

Posted
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21 minutes ago, Alex W. said:

PC Monster Munch did you skim it looking for something negative or what. 

I watched it earlier, I thought it was impressive for such early hardware and software and on the weaker of the two next gen machines, but you could still see where compromises were being made. This one sticking out particularly. https://youtu.be/Azl772uylh4?t=727 You can also see that the denoiser is not quite up to speed yet either and the reduced RT reflection resolution. All things DF love to obsess over which was the point being made.

 

And Pickled Onion are best Monster Munch.

 

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footle

footle

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, Alex W. said:

PC Monster Munch did you skim it looking for something negative or what. 


it can look amazing, but you know that people will be looking to see what compromises they’re using to get ray tracing to work on both consoles.

 

Quarter Rez with checkerboarding, raytracing for reflections on dashboards, static objects only?

This is the kind of stuff that DF live for.

 

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HarryBizzle

HarryBizzle

Posted
Posted

I think this is the line in the DF piece that resonated with me the most:

 

Quote

This console generation has used the same kind of faked effects for so long that we've got used to them, and we don't even notice the errors and fakery in many scenarios. 


I mostly just stare blankly at these ray tracing videos unless they’re blindingly obvious God rays or they freeze and zoom 400% into some reflection of a piece of rubble you wouldn’t even notice in gameplay. 

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Petrousgyre

Petrousgyre

Posted
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19 minutes ago, HarryBizzle said:

I mostly just stare blankly at these ray tracing videos unless they’re blindingly obvious God rays or they freeze and zoom 400% into some reflection of a piece of rubble you wouldn’t even notice in gameplay. 

 

This slightly misses the point though. You probably won't notice the difference in individual elements that are ray traced vs cube mapped but the overall results will definitely look better. 

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jonamok

jonamok

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, petrolgirls said:

 

This slightly misses the point though. You probably won't notice the difference in individual elements that are ray traced vs cube mapped but the overall results will definitely look better. 


If there’s one thing we’ve learned from resolution and frame rate comparison videos over the years it’s that the difference (or not) is very much in the eye of the beholder.

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Petrousgyre

Petrousgyre

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, jonamok said:


If there’s one thing we’ve learned from resolution and frame rate comparison videos over the years it’s that the difference (or not) is very much in the eye of the beholder.


Not really sure what that means in this context. Ray tracing makes games look better, that’s not a particularly subjective assertion. 

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Trigg

Trigg

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, petrolgirls said:


Not really sure what that means in this context. Ray tracing makes games look better, that’s not a particularly subjective assertion. 

 Some people just don’t see it though or don’t care enough to see it. 
 

I mean, I’ve seen takes on the internet that stated nothing shown by Sony looked any better than PS4. 

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jonnyalpha

jonnyalpha

Posted
Posted

Different people are affected /unsettled by different things. I'm insensitive to frame rates, as long as they are steady,  and my brain rarely notices clipping in game but if there is any screen tearing present I can't play the game. I have a friend who doesn't notice tearing at all but practically jumps when objects clip through each other. Obviously he's weird. 

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Alex W.

Alex W.

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, PC Master Race said:

I watched it earlier, I thought it was impressive for such early hardware and software and on the weaker of the two next gen machines, but you could still see where compromises were being made. This one sticking out particularly. https://youtu.be/Azl772uylh4?t=727 You can also see that the denoiser is not quite up to speed yet either and the reduced RT reflection resolution. All things DF love to obsess over which was the point being made.

 

And Pickled Onion are best Monster Munch.

 

 

The whole point of the article is that ray tracing is an extremely computationally intensive technique and its usage in real games will be about making appropriate design compromises which DF are quite encouraged by, but ok.

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JPL

JPL

Posted
Posted

I think I’m immune to any of the problems that people seem to have with gaming. I’ve been at it since the late 70s, so I’ve encountered the worst of everything. Single digit frame rates, low resolutions, the lot.

 

It doesn’t take me long to adjust. I’m playing Bloodborne for the first time at the moment and when I initially booted it up, the frame rate was really noticeable, but I’ve totally settled into it now and it doesn’t bother me in the slightest.

 

Obviously all this progression is good and I really appreciate all the new, fancy things we get, but I can quite happily go back to playing Goldeneye on the N64 and enjoy it as much as the latest cutting edge games. As long as the games are good, I’ll put up with anything, but I’m still really excited to see where things go in the upcoming generation.

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HarryBizzle

HarryBizzle

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, petrolgirls said:

 

This slightly misses the point though. You probably won't notice the difference in individual elements that are ray traced vs cube mapped but the overall results will definitely look better. 

 

Yeah, I'm just not sure they're going to look "rush out and spend £500" better to me.

 

But I find all this SSD far more interesting than the graphical side of things, anyway. Over the past 5 years or so I've gone from 90% PC gaming to 100% console gaming on the couch, largely because I want gaming to be as seamless and hassle free as possible. Not having to deal with any loading or boot times will what pushes me to upgrade well before I think games on my One X don't look good enough.

 

3 hours ago, Trigg said:

 I mean, I’ve seen takes on the internet that stated nothing shown by Sony looked any better than PS4. 

 

 

I think we can blame Sony for that. Their stream was 1080p and the macro-blocks on it were horrendous. Watching the 4K trailers after the fact is night and day.


But also, I think we remember the overall aesthetic of games. Loads of remakes look like what I remember the original looking like. So if they wanted me to see the difference between Ratchet and Clank and the PS4 game, they should have done a side by side, because I remember thinking that looked like a Pixar movie to me when it came out, so the improvements aren't immediately apparent.

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layten

layten

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Alex W. said:

 

The whole point of the article is that ray tracing is an extremely computationally intensive technique and its usage in real games will be about making appropriate design compromises which DF are quite encouraged by, but ok.

yes

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rafaqat

rafaqat

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, The Mighty Ash said:

I thought early 2021, but that's sounding like it won't even be 2021!

 

It's like you haven't seen any Sony reveals in the last 5 years.  :)

 

We'll see it xmas 2021 at earliest. Almost certainly to be 2022

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