PlayStation 5 - Next gen is expensive

[Girth Certificate]

 

 

 

how do these new variable triggers work then? Little gears? Little magnets?

[p1nseeker]

Has there been any images of the back? Do we think it will have an optical out?

[Yiggy]

13 minutes ago, p1nseeker said:

Has there been any images of the back? Do we think it will have an optical out?

I would have thought it would do as it’s still such a common connection for soundboard and headphones etc. But no confirmation yet I don’t think. 
 

Is there any clue when more details such as price and size etc will be released? When is the next event? 
 

Seriously considering getting one to go alongside my current X and having access to all the next generation stuff for a few year before my X needs an upgrade. 

[Uzi]

Dominos Pizza have chimed in 

 

https://m.facebook.com/177319659067853/posts/1925365147596620/?d=n

 

 

 

(from resetera) 

[PaB]

34 minutes ago, p1nseeker said:

Has there been any images of the back? Do we think it will have an optical out?

maybe for the disc version . I don’t think the digital box will .

[Alex W.]

9 hours ago, petrolgirls said:

 

All the hardware images are CG renders, maybe not surprising given how tricky shooting anything is right now.

 

There's also a bunch of stills from some of the games shown. I was struck by Abe's Oddysee when I watched the stream, not the art style particularly but the render quality:

 

 

I'm struggling to believe this is straight out of a console, it's incredibly clean, there isn't a hint of fringing around the depth of field, texturing, lighting, aa - it just looks too good, like it's been rendered in Arnold, Renderman or similar. If next gen consoles can render that cleanly then we're in for a treat but I fear they're fibbing in this instance. By contrast - I thought Stray looked great but if you look at this render cropped in you can clearly see the artifacts around the defocused edges and sparkles in what I assume are raytraced reflections on the street (typical of low sample raytracing) along with some less than perfect anti-aliasing - that's all reassuringly in engine.

 

Re. the console images, I saw an article some years ago about the workflow for Apple’s main product photographer. A lot of their product images that look like renders are very well made stacks of multiple exposures with lighting sent from different directions. Actual photos made to look impossibly clean like CG.

 

Relatedly, you can get shockingly clean real-time CG out of consoles these days if you have the right look in mind. The Ratchet and Clank game for PS4 has a similar “CGI movie” look to Oddworld and the new Ratchet and Clank PS5 game so I wouldn’t rule out its being real-time. But Lanning likes his rendered cut-scenes.

[Alex W.]

Just now, PeteBrant said:

maybe for the disc version . I don’t think the digital box will .

Because it won’t play UHD disks?

[Alex W.]

10 hours ago, Spacehost said:

The audio is beamed to the pad via Bluetooth so if its good enough for the pad, I dunno why they can’t support AptX headphones or whatever.

AptX is laggy AF and the low latency versions of the codecs don’t sound as good.

 

Also money.

[PaB]

Just now, Alex W. said:

Because it won’t play UHD disks?

I just think they will strip as much as they can out with the cost with that model . 

[Alex W.]

Just now, PeteBrant said:

I just think they will strip as much as they can out with the cost with that model . 

They could’ve started with 90% of the plastic in that case. Made it actually flat on one side so it doesn’t need to ship with a stand...

[Spacehost]

6 minutes ago, Alex W. said:

AptX is laggy AF and the low latency versions of the codecs don’t sound as good.

 

Also money.

I thought AptX and LDAC were the low latency ones? I've got synchronised audio and video on my phone using it. I don't see why it would be an issue in gameplay.

 

Edit- it's AptX LL that's the low latency one.

[jonathanhoey]

5 minutes ago, Alex W. said:

They could’ve started with 90% of the plastic in that case. Made it actually flat on one side so it doesn’t need to ship with a stand...

 

I assumed that's an airflow thing. Raising it up when it's horizontal so that the underside has more clearance. I suppose in a way it's neater than rubber feet.

[footle]

9 minutes ago, PeteBrant said:

I just think they will strip as much as they can out with the cost with that model . 

 

Most of the cost is the SSD though. the UHD is bugger all, and economies of scale mean "keep the same everything except the shell and the UHD drive". I can't imagine they're not UHD decoding on CPU/GPU, for a start.

[Alex W.]

4 minutes ago, beenabadbunny said:

 

I assumed that's an airflow thing. Raising it up when it's horizontal so that the underside has more clearance. I suppose in a way it's neater than rubber feet.

It’s not a very thick stand, especially on the Slim version. It seems to mostly smooth out the non-flat bits. And with those crazy fins, I think no much air will get from under the console to the vents anyway.

[PaB]

11 minutes ago, footle said:

 

Most of the cost is the SSD though. the UHD is bugger all, and economies of scale mean "keep the same everything except the shell and the UHD drive". I can't imagine they're not UHD decoding on CPU/GPU, for a start.

The optical connection costs money . If you are conducting a VAVE exercise you strip out as much as you can , every single component costs money . 
it’s pure conjecture obvs . It may well be the digital only version does have an optical . I just get the impression they will strip out as much as they can . 

[Petrousgyre]

45 minutes ago, Alex W. said:

Re. the console images, I saw an article some years ago about the workflow for Apple’s main product photographer. A lot of their product images that look like renders are very well made stacks of multiple exposures with lighting sent from different directions. Actual photos made to look impossibly clean like CG.

 

Relatedly, you can get shockingly clean real-time CG out of consoles these days if you have the right look in mind. The Ratchet and Clank game for PS4 has a similar “CGI movie” look to Oddworld and the new Ratchet and Clank PS5 game so I wouldn’t rule out its being real-time. But Lanning likes his rendered cut-scenes.

Re: Apple - I’m intimately and excruciatingly familiar with their workflow. Yes, they, uniquely as far as I’m aware, always insist on shooting their product and then heavily work it in post. A small army of designers and product specialists would descend on you en masse and analyse every pixel of every frame. The result you’d end up with would be clean, certainly, but easy enough to distinguish between that and actual CG if you know what to look for. Those PS5 shots are definitely CG. Not brilliant CG either, I’ve seen better. 

 

As for Oddworld, you can get decent imagery out of consoles but nothing like as clean or as accurate as an unbiased Monte Carlo renderer that can take several hours a frame to calculate. I’m almost certain those Oddworld stills aren’t being generated in real-time, there’s none of the tell-tale artefacts you can see in every other PS5 game (including that unreal demo). I’d be interested to see full resolution stills of Ratchet as that also looked good - but it’s not on that PS blog as far as I can see. 

 

 

[Dirty Harry Potter]

9 minutes ago, petrolgirls said:

Re: Apple - I’m intimately and excruciatingly familiar with their workflow. Yes, they, uniquely as far as I’m aware, always insist on shooting their product and then heavily work it in post. A small army of designers and product specialists would descend on you en masse and analyse every pixel of every frame. The result you’d end up with would be clean, certainly, but easy enough to distinguish between that and actual CG if you know what to look for. Those PS5 shots are definitely CG. Not brilliant CG either, I’ve seen better. 

 

As for Oddworld, you can get decent imagery out of consoles but nothing like as clean or as accurate as an unbiased Monte Carlo renderer that can take several hours a frame to calculate. I’m almost certain those Oddworld stills aren’t being generated in real-time, there’s none of the tell-tale artefacts you can see in every other PS5 game (including that unreal demo). I’d be interested to see full resolution stills of Ratchet as that also looked good - but it’s not on that PS blog as far as I can see. 

 

 

 

Sorry to take this thread off topic... but really? Thats really interesting. I just assumed Apple CG'ed everything. So those are real product plates with every spec of dust and imperfection removed - (and presumably re-fixed with a CGI model tracked over the top?). I have worked on car stuff this way, so makes sense Apple would do that as well.

 

[Petrousgyre]

Just now, Dirty Harry Potter said:

 

Sorry to take this thread of topic... but really? Thats really interesting. I just assumed Apple CG'ed everything. So those a real product plates with every spec of dust and imperfection removed - (and presumably re-fixed with a CGI model tracked over the top?). I have worked on car stuff this way, so makes sense Apple would do that as well.

 

Unless something changed very recently they always shoot for real - only the screens would sometimes be comped. I didn’t work on anything where we tracked CG into the plates, it’s possible they did on other spots although it’d have been counter to their whole philosophy. Cars, yes - you generally always track geometry in order to add lots of bling reflections.

 

Interested to hear what yourself and the other VFX guys on here think of that Oddworld still. 

[BedroomBusinessman]

25 minutes ago, petrolgirls said:

Unless something changed very recently they always shoot for real - only the screens would sometimes be comped. I didn’t work on anything where we tracked CG into the plates, it’s possible they did on other spots although it’d have been counter to their whole philosophy. Cars, yes - you generally always track geometry in order to add lots of bling reflections.

 

Interested to hear what yourself and the other VFX guys on here think of that Oddworld still. 

A bit out of date now but this talks about some of their (and I guess other companies?!) procedures.

 

https://www.theverge.com/2013/5/8/4311868/the-illusion-of-simplicity-photographer-peter-belanger-on-shooting

[Dirty Harry Potter]

 

1 hour ago, petrolgirls said:

Unless something changed very recently they always shoot for real - only the screens would sometimes be comped. I didn’t work on anything where we tracked CG into the plates, it’s possible they did on other spots although it’d have been counter to their whole philosophy. Cars, yes - you generally always track geometry in order to add lots of bling reflections.

 

Interested to hear what yourself and the other VFX guys on here think of that Oddworld still. 

 

I'm a post producer/editor.. However from a scheduling and logistic point of view I'm going to assume alot of those videos are target renders using game assets. Given the covid situation and many of these games still being a very long way off - it would seem the most straight forward (and painless) way of getting a launch video together. So yeah I think you are bang on about there being a lack of artefacts and looking pre-rendered in certain videos.. I'm sure the final versions won't be far off - but will likely have the flaws you mentioned.

 

 

 

 

[Petrousgyre]

1 minute ago, Dirty Harry Potter said:

 

However from a scheduling and logistic point of view I'm going to assume most of those videos are target renders using game assets.

I reckon most of them were in-engine PS5 (except that game from the Octodad devs which looks like it was rendered on an N64.) It did say at the front of that video “all images captured from from PS5 in real time” - I know that didn’t mean much around the PS3 launch but I think people take that more seriously now. 

[footle]

https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/15/21291288/sony-ps5-software-user-interface-ui-design-dashboard-teaser-video
 

This [hardware] is also customizable in ways previous gens weren’t,” reveals MacLaurin. He even teases a “maybe” response to questions about a black version of the PS5, and that “there will be a special edition for everyone.”

 

it looks shit because that way you can buy fun branded covers?

 

good reason to lead with white: get the internet to really explore different colour schemes!

[Alex W.]

I guess because the white plastic bits are a separate part, it’s going to be easy to run those off for SEs, and the LED colour can just be changed in software. Although the PS4 hardly wanted for special edition colours.

 

Edit - I’ve read “customisable” as meaning “customisable by Sony”, not by the end user.

[JPL]

I wonder if the central part is just a standard black box without melted sides? I’ll leave it like that if it is.

[footle]

9 minutes ago, Alex W. said:

I guess because the white plastic bits are a separate part, it’s going to be easy to run those off for SEs, and the LED colour can just be changed in software. Although the PS4 hardly wanted for special edition colours.

 

Edit - I’ve read “customisable” as meaning “customisable by Sony”, not by the end user.

I doubt they’re going with a full rgb strip if they’re cost conscious, perhaps though.

User customisable snap on, snap off faceplates could be a thing if you’re standing it vertically, I suppose (pointless if horizontal). And it’s big, so there’s lots of space for your Jak and Dexter characters and you can sell it for lots more than a 360 faceplate.
 

Only problem would be that you’ve two editions with different shapes, so you’ve fragmented the market: perhaps not then.

[Alex W.]

1 minute ago, footle said:

I doubt they’re going with a full rgb strip if they’re cost conscious, perhaps though.

User customisable snap on, snap off faceplates could be a thing if you’re standing it vertically, I suppose (pointless if horizontal). And it’s big, so there’s lots of space for your Jak and Dexter characters and you can sell it for lots more than a 360 faceplate.
 

Only problem would be that you’ve two editions with different shapes, so you’ve fragmented the market: perhaps not then.

I don’t think it’ll be an RGB strip, probably a few LEDs each side and a diffuser. But I expect it’ll have the same sort of status light colour thing as the original PS4.

[yakumo]

Need Updated Ps5 graphics

[Haribokart]

23 minutes ago, JPL said:

I wonder if the central part is just a standard black box without melted sides? I’ll leave it like that if it is.

I would totally do this, whatever is underneath can’t be as ugly as those fucking plates.

[AI]

21 minutes ago, footle said:

Only problem would be that you’ve two editions with different shapes, so you’ve fragmented the market: perhaps not then.

 

Left (upright)/top (flat) faceplate customisable only then?

[footle]

9 minutes ago, AI1 said:

 

Left (upright)/top (flat) faceplate customisable only then?

 

would explain why the disk is on the bottom, along with keeping the profile of the "top" of the console consistent.