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PlayStation 5 - Mark Cerny reveals even more details in second WIRED exclusive

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Rumours saying the PS5 SSD is twice as fast as next gen Xbox’s. If true, probably the tradeoff for the rumoured 2-3TF difference. Wonder if it’ll pay off.

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1 hour ago, Meat said:

Rumours saying the PS5 SSD is twice as fast as next gen Xbox’s. If true, probably the tradeoff for the rumoured 2-3TF difference. Wonder if it’ll pay off.

 

It'll depend on price I think. If they can deliver that and come in for $100 less than Xbox, they'll be able to market the machine as, "the fastest next gen console", which will blunt MS's claim to the power crown.

 

Be very curious what the final specs are now. We'll have to find out before GDC as I expect the leaks to be coming at us left and right after that.

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7 hours ago, Meat said:

Rumours saying the PS5 SSD is twice as fast as next gen Xbox’s. If true, probably the tradeoff for the rumoured 2-3TF difference. Wonder if it’ll pay off.

And yet we haven't heard what speed either of them are?

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8 hours ago, Meat said:

Rumours saying the PS5 SSD is twice as fast as next gen Xbox’s. If true, probably the tradeoff for the rumoured 2-3TF difference. Wonder if it’ll pay off.

 

What's the source of these rumours? 

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16 minutes ago, The Mighty Ash said:

 

What's the source of these rumours? 

 

Some of the regular PS5 youtubers put up a vid yesterday, I’m sure they mention source.

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42 minutes ago, Chadruharazzeb said:

 

Well yeah, that's what rumours are - speculation. 

Oh. My. God.

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If this super fast drive is a real thing, how difficult would it be for MS to stick one in the Series X?

 

Would their policy of allowing cut down versions of their games on current consoles stop that?

 

Is it something that would have needed to be factored in at an earlier stage?

 

How much of a benefit would a double speed drive actually be?

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10 hours ago, Meat said:

Rumours saying the PS5 SSD is twice as fast as next gen Xbox’s. If true, probably the tradeoff for the rumoured 2-3TF difference. Wonder if it’ll pay off.

It’ll make no difference.

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1 hour ago, PC Master Race said:

It’ll make no difference.

Combined with games that specifically make use of the feature will make a massive difference. 

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Just now, Stanley said:

Combined with games that specifically make use of the feature will make a massive difference. 

No it wont. Peak transfer rates are an extreme edge case which you only ever see in benchmarks. When you start getting into low queue and thread depth reads you wont be seeing any perceptible difference. Now if Sony have blown the budget on 3DXpoint (very expensive, very fast, very unlikely) you might see something.

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Any chance you could explain it in a way us normal folk understand? If there’s no benefit to it, why would they do it?

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7 minutes ago, JPL said:

Any chance you could explain it in a way us normal folk understand? If there’s no benefit to it, why would they do it?

Basically you hardly ever read huge chunks of data that start at point A and finish at point B. Almost always there will be bits of data from points G and Y (for example) and then it comes down to how fast the flash (performance of flash is pretty much constant these days) and controller can handle the random reads as well (even then, this is pretty stable across controllers these days). Your big open world game is going to be pulling data from all across different parts of the storage.

 

Why would they do it? Well I'd be very surprised if they go for a SSD that has double the peak performance numbers as it really wont make all that much difference. Sounds like people upset about the GPU numbers (hi resetera) clinging to this gens "power of the cloud".

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1 minute ago, PC Master Race said:

Basically you hardly ever read huge chunks of data that start at point A and finish at point B. Almost always there will be bits of data from points G and Y (for example) and then it comes down to how fast the flash (performance of flash is pretty much constant these days) and controller can handle the random reads as well (even then, this is pretty stable across controllers these days). Your big open world game is going to be pulling data from all across different parts of the storage.

Right, makes sense. That demo of Spider-Man where they’re blasting down a single street while it streams everything in super fast isn’t a good demonstration then? As soon as you turn around or fly off in a different direction, it’ll have to read from other parts of the disk, which won’t be as quick. Is that right?

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18 minutes ago, PC Master Race said:

No it wont. Peak transfer rates are an extreme edge case which you only ever see in benchmarks. When you start getting into low queue and thread depth reads you wont be seeing any perceptible difference. Now if Sony have blown the budget on 3DXpoint (very expensive, very fast, very unlikely) you might see something.

I’m afraid I don’t understand most of that however I’d have thought that, for streaming data, if it’s twice as fast, then that would result in the world being streamed in faster and more smoothly.

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10 minutes ago, JPL said:

Right, makes sense. That demo of Spider-Man where they’re blasting down a single street while it streams everything in super fast isn’t a good demonstration then? As soon as you turn around or fly off in a different direction, it’ll have to read from other parts of the disk, which won’t be as quick. Is that right?

Even then it is very unlikely that every single asset required would be stored in a contiguous stream on the storage.

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10 minutes ago, Stanley said:

I’m afraid I don’t understand most of that however I’d have thought that, for streaming data, if it’s twice as fast, then that would result in the world being streamed in faster and more smoothly.


something has to process that data at the increased rate. There will be a big improvement from the order of magnitude improvement of scrapping HDD. A mere doubling of performance on something that’s already ten times faster than the current state of play is an incremental improvement and it’s hard to see how that would compensate for a 25% deficit in rendering power (to make use of that data).

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13 minutes ago, PC Master Race said:

Even then it is very unlikely that every single asset required would be stored in a contiguous stream on the storage.

But, as Stanley asks above, I take it this faster storage will allow for quicker reads than we currently have, so traversal in open world games can be speeded up*, for example?

 

I’m just trying to get my head around why they’re including faster storage and what this even faster storage, if the rumours are true, will bring to the experience.
 

*This is the only improvement I’ve heard of so far, along with faster load times.

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13 minutes ago, Stanley said:

I’m afraid I don’t understand most of that however I’d have thought that, for streaming data, if it’s twice as fast, then that would result in the world being streamed in faster and more smoothly.


it’s like a motorway,  if the data you want is at junction 1 then 2 then 3, then great.

 

but it never is.

 

so far more important is how quick it can read a bit from 1 then 10 then 5 then 23.

 

its the reason why SSDs are so much better than old spinning discs in the first place.

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21 minutes ago, Stanley said:

So that on its own might not prove effective but that coupled with faster ram might? 


Sure, but most of the gain is from the first  ten times improvement, not the proportionally smaller two times improvement after that. Diminishing returns and all that.

 

At least until someone shows something utterly astonishing.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Stanley said:

Combined with games that specifically make use of the feature will make a massive difference. 


so we’re back to multi platform vs first party I guess.  Multi platform releases will take into account the lowest common denominator which will be PC’s with normal HDD’s and Xbox One/PS4 disks. 
 

1st Party Sony games can take advantage of it all but let’s be honest, how many are specifically going to be creating a game so unique in design that it can only be done with the fastest SSD.  Might make a difference in marketing but actual games doing anything different will be almost non existent.  I’ll bet Pete Brants 5th bollock that we’ll see about 3 games that utilize the SSD to the max as a defining hardware innovation in the next 5 years.  

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44 minutes ago, JPL said:

But, as Stanley asks above, I take it this faster storage will allow for quicker reads than we currently have, so traversal in open world games can be speeded up*, for example?

 

I’m just trying to get my head around why they’re including faster storage and what this even faster storage, if the rumours are true, will bring to the experience.
 

*This is the only improvement I’ve heard of so far, along with faster load times.


SSD will mostly be used to stream in a crap load of textures and geometry fast.  
 

so far the only thing people have been able to say is that it’ll mean you can traverse open world games faster.   Revolutionary game design right there....

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To quote the original Wired article:

Quote

At the moment, Sony won’t cop to exact details about the SSD—who makes it, whether it utilizes the new PCIe 4.0 standard—but Cerny claims that it has a raw bandwidth higher than any SSD available for PCs. That’s not all. “The raw read speed is important,“ Cerny says, “but so are the details of the I/O [input-output] mechanisms and the software stack that we put on top of them. I got a PlayStation 4 Pro and then I put in a SSD that cost as much as the PlayStation 4 Pro—it might be one-third faster." As opposed to 19 times faster for the next-gen console, judging from the fast-travel demo.

 

There's a Sony patent that lends some weight to their using a custom solution. As with most patents it's a bit of a slog to parse – you can read this ResetEra thread for a more manageable version – but the basic gist is that by tuning various aspects for use specifically in a games console, as opposed to a general computing device, you can minimise bottlenecks.

 

Customised or not, the move to SSDs as standard is going to be huge. PC gamers have been enjoying significantly faster load times for years, which already makes a large experiential difference, but now we'll really start seeing games designed with sold-state drives in mind.

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1 hour ago, Stanley said:

So that on its own might not prove effective but that coupled with faster ram might? 


potentially but it’s more we’re looking at one potential trait of the drive, that it’s twice as fast reading data in order and ignoring all the other potential ones.

 

eg - judging a car entirely on its top speed and ignoring acceleration and cornering when the job is not a drag race but to get across a winding mountain pass.

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