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PlayStation 5: Launch is 19/11/20 - UI Video Released


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11 minutes ago, APM said:

Who gives a shit about 4k, 8k, 1080p? Seriously, when did fucking gaming become about resolution? Y'all should be ashamed of yourself.


You’re posting in a thread about a new console whose major marketing selling point is resolution.

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3 minutes ago, footle said:


You’re posting in a thread about a new console whose major marketing selling point is resolution.

Resolution does not make the game. I mean, how the hell did we enjoy Doom, Metal Great Solid, Halo and all those others at such sub standard resolutions? Won't somebody think of the children!?

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6 minutes ago, Alex W. said:


Because you can run the game internally at 540p or something with an absurdly high frame rate and lots of nice effects and still get an image that looks good on your 1080p/4K/whatever TV. DLSS is free graphics power.

I wasn't responding to you directly.

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To be fair @APM, your core argument seems to be that so long as developers can make interesting, fun, original games there’s no need for new consoles, which is extremely contrarian in a new PS5 thread. 
 

I don’t fundamentally disagree, but there’s no reason we can’t have a jolly good time analysing and speculating on new tech that will run those interesting, fun, original games. 

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There's always a few at every generation change. PS3 was also not needed, likewise the PS4. Yes, we're in diminishing returns territory in terms of visual fidelity but as always there will eventually be amazing games that wouldn't have been possible on the previous generation hardware. And everybody will celebrate

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11 hours ago, APM said:

Resolution does not make the game. I mean, how the hell did we enjoy Doom, Metal Great Solid, Halo and all those others at such sub standard resolutions? Won't somebody think of the children!?

 

That's reductive though, I played the shit out of Geoff Crammond's first F1 game but that doesn't mean that Assetto Corsa isn't 700 leagues better now I have that.

 

Just because something was good for its time isn't an argument to make something better.

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11 hours ago, Popo said:

To be fair @APM, your core argument seems to be that so long as developers can make interesting, fun, original games there’s no need for new consoles, which is extremely contrarian in a new PS5 thread. 
 

I don’t fundamentally disagree, but there’s no reason we can’t have a jolly good time analysing and speculating on new tech that will run those interesting, fun, original games. 

That wasn't my core argument at all. It was simply that I was reading the thread and it all seemed to be around resolution, which at this point in time isn't really an issue. I'm all for the new consoles and the new experiences they may bring, but I want that power channeled into stuff that matters more than resolution, that's all.

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2 hours ago, Ghosty said:

Going back and playing older games is never a good idea. The fond memories quickly turn to horror.

 

this doesn't happen with any other medium...

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14 minutes ago, SeanR said:

 

this doesn't happen with any other medium...


Furthermore, having gone back to Sega Rally this weekend thanks to @dumpster’s discovery of a Windows 10 compatible conversion of the old PC version, which holds up beautifully by the way, it’s not categorically true. 

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I play older games all the time. Lots of stuff holds up well or hasn't been bettered. People who seriously argue that older games aren't as much fun to play now, come across the same way as people who argue that old black and white movies are shit/not as good as more modern movies because they're in black and white. 

 

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I still play older games - just yesterday I was revisiting some NES stuff via FCE Ultra and my RS97. Sometimes the fun has a nostalgic element attached to it, but often I'll enjoy games I never played in the 80s or 90s. Look at the old Retro Game Club threads - we played Rainbow Islands, Super Castlevania IV, Parodius, Pop'n Twinbee (etc)... and most of them held up pretty well. Sure, there are games that have aged poorly, but that's a result of our own nostalgia goggles. ;) 

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15 hours ago, Alex W. said:

They train a neural network to convert a 540p version of the game to 4K by showing it both versions over and over like in Clockwork Orange until it does it right. Then they send that brainwashed robot mind to people and (for that game) it can instantaneously upscale any frame while weeping silently.

 

Machine learning is the future.

 

Nvidia train their AI with 16K images as the ground truth target image for reconstruction. Which probably explains how the reconstructed image can have more detail created than a 4K native image.

 

Quote

 

A special type of AI network, called a convolutional autoencoder, takes the low resolution current frame, and the high resolution previous frame, to determine on a pixel-by-pixel basis how to generate a higher quality current frame.

 

During the training process, the output image is compared to an offline rendered, ultra-high quality 16K reference image, and the difference is communicated back into the network so that it can continue to learn and improve its results. This process is repeated tens of thousands of times on the supercomputer until the network reliably outputs high quality, high resolution images.

 

 

 

15 hours ago, Ferine said:

Not sure deep-learning will play any part in console techniques – it's an area nVidia's been invested in for ages – but I'm anticipating some impressive "faux K" results as the generation goes on.

 

If you believe the hype, Microsoft will be using some form of Machine-Learning reconstruction for the XS generation:

 

sq4zaub.png

 

Forza Horizon 3 reconstructed from 1080p to 4K on a Nvidia GPU using DirectML, the XSX mentions it as a feature. Sony haven't specifically highlighted ML so it's unknown at present for PS5.

 

 

  

1 hour ago, APM said:

That wasn't my core argument at all. It was simply that I was reading the thread and it all seemed to be around resolution, which at this point in time isn't really an issue. I'm all for the new consoles and the new experiences they may bring, but I want that power channeled into stuff that matters more than resolution, that's all.

 

So you should be cheering on the rise of reconstruction techniques as they allow the power saved to be used in places other than being wasted on rendering at high native output resolutions :)

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4 minutes ago, mushashi said:

 

Nvidia train their AI with 16K images as the ground truth target image for reconstruction. Which probably explains how the reconstructed image can have more detail created than a 4K native image.

Not any more. That was DLSS 1.x DLSS2.x is trained using generic images and does not need high res footage of each individual title.

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20 minutes ago, layten said:

Not any more. That was DLSS 1.x DLSS2.x is trained using generic images and does not need high res footage of each individual title.

 

That quote is from Nvidia's blog post about DLSS 2.0, it's a general explanation of how they train the system. I suppose their AI is now proficient enough that it doesn't require specialised specific training on every game.

 

https://www.nvidia.com/en-gb/geforce/news/nvidia-dlss-2-0-a-big-leap-in-ai-rendering/

 

Quote

One Network For All Games - The original DLSS required training the AI network for each new game. DLSS 2.0 trains using non-game-specific content, delivering a generalised network that works across games. This means faster game integrations, and ultimately more DLSS games.

 

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8 hours ago, Mr. Gerbik said:

There's always a few at every generation change. PS3 was also not needed, likewise the PS4. Yes, we're in diminishing returns territory in terms of visual fidelity but as always there will eventually be amazing games that wouldn't have been possible on the previous generation hardware. And everybody will celebrate

 

We can only really appraise generations as they draw to a close, but I think in doing so there's an interesting contrast between the 7th and 8th. Lots of people felt the 360 was premature just 4 years after the Xbox, which was still very capable at the time. I didn't think the 360's early games looked much better myself, but as a PC gamer I was ready for the next console gen. RRoD aside, I think the majority of us now agree that the 360 was a great machine at the right time. The PS3 also had a ton of highlights IMO.

 

But if we contrast those consoles and what they achieved with the One and PS4? I'd say there's a big difference. For a number of reasons this has felt like a continuity gen to me, and I've been wanting to abandon it for a good while. I know the PS4's been hugely popular, but I've tired of Sony's exclusives and the vast majority of franchises. Anyway, that's digressing into the personal rather than focusing on clear hardware breakthroughs, and once again the SX and PS5 bring hope. But it's not resolution, it's their loadtimes and number-crunching power I want to see utilised. I don't think it'll be as great a generation as the 360 and PS3's, but I believe this new hardware lends developers that level of potential this time, whereas the current consoles didn't.

 

Talking of res, though, I think it's a mistake to try and leapfrog 1440 and 2.7K straight to 4K, when it took an entire generation to go from 720 to 1080. Especially with DLSS now. I also feel — and this is my own funny thing — that flatscreens have held back consoles a lot by imposing higher than optimal native resolutions on them. Flatscreen motion still sucks in comparison to CRT, and I'd much rather play at 1440/90+ on a new widescreen CRT than stuttery 4K on an OLED or equivalent. So yeah, I feel that modern TVs have had a negative effect on gaming, though their larger sizes are obviously great for passive viewing.

 

But those loadtimes! It'll mostly be the same dudebro games and numberwang shooters again, but at least there won't be as much staring at did-you-know nonsense. Fighting games should, hopefully, also finally feel like the arcades of old, and that's what I'm most looking forward to. Obviously it won't work out like that, as shoddy netcode upsets the matchmaking applecart again, and as long as guys like Harada are in charge we won't see the innovation the genre's crying out for (co-op and team modes, etc, in an age when team-based games are more popular than ever).

 

Completely random post, this, innit, but I feel better to have wanged it out! Yeah, I'm ready for the next gen, I just don't want any of the games on the horizon. All of the PlayStations bar the first took a year or more to get going, so we'll wait and see.

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On 05/09/2020 at 22:30, APM said:

Who gives a shit about 4k, 8k, 1080p? Seriously, when did fucking gaming become about resolution? Y'all should be ashamed of yourself.


I didn’t care about 4K until I got a 4K TV. 

 

Now I really do.  

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On 06/09/2020 at 11:48, Vemsie said:

Of course resolution matters. I much rather watch a movie in 4K than on VHS.

8K is overkill though.

 


I said 4K was overkill and pointless until I watched something in 4K. 
 

There is a point with diminishing returns, and maybe between 4K to 8K is that point. But I won’t be so quick to dismiss it. 

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  • gospvg changed the title to PlayStation 5: Launch is 19/11/20 - Teardown Video Released
  • gospvg changed the title to PlayStation 5: Launch is 19/11/20 - UI Video Released
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