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PlayStation 5: Launch is 19/11/20. £360 digital, £450 full fat. Launch games £70?!?!


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2 hours ago, Hitcher said:

But you explicitly mentioned menus/maps!

 

Sorry, I should be a bit clearer about exactly what he said. He matter-of-factly states that simple scenes increase CPU power consumption*, and then speculates that's what's going wrong with map screens. It's the matter-of-fact "simple geometry needs more electrical power" thing I really want to understand.

 

*And therefore heat output, and therefore the fans spin up

 

Edit - One thing I figured out from researching this which I hadn't appreciated before, is that the actual types of instructions being done on the CPU/GPU have an impact on its power usage/heat output. That whole business about 256-bit instructions in his presentation, that's already an issue for other instruction types. If a game is using a whole lot of particularly power-using/heat-producing instructions, that contributes to the console running hot, even if it's running at the same clock speed and voltage as every other game. Not that it relates to this specific issue but I've clearly got to read more about how semiconductor devices work.

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1 hour ago, Mike S said:

 

 

Given that Bloodborne is far and away the best platform exclusive PS4 game of it's generation, and up there with the very best of every other generation, I'd be fine paying again for a jazzed up, higher res, smoother version. 

 

I would indeed welcome it.

 

Wouldn't you rather we got our existing versions jazzed up for free?

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Just now, rafaqat said:

 

Wouldn't you rather we got our existing versions jazzed up for free?

I’d say both - I’d expect patches to improve resolution and performance etc. but something like, say, Shadow of The Colossus, is such an overhaul that is justified in being a separate product. So with Bloodborne I think that still looks good enough to just give it a 60fps patch but with Demon’s I’d prefer a complete remaster. 
 

In short it depends on how old the game is and how much work is required to get it upto standard.  

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Just now, Stanley said:

I’d say both - I’d expect patches to improve resolution and performance etc. but something like, say, Shadow of The Colossus, is such an overhaul that is justified in being a separate product. So with Bloodborne I think that still looks good enough to just give it a 60fps patch but with Demon’s I’d prefer a complete remaster. 
 

In short it depends on how old the game is and how much work is required to get it upto standard.  

 

Don't get me wrong, I think getting stuff to work on completely different hardware is a fair ask for more money.   Moving from PS3 Cell tech to x86 on Ps4/Ps5 is no easy thing.

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10 minutes ago, rafaqat said:

 

Wouldn't you rather we got our existing versions jazzed up for free?

 

That's a pretty stupid question.

 

 

 

 

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There is no way on earth From Software is going to go back to patch an old game, for free. They will however gladly resell it to you, that is the way of things now

 

+1 for buying anything they do again to get no framepacing and 60fps out of it (don't give a hoots about 4K right now). Demon Souls is long overdue, so that would be a remaster, but thinking back to Bloodborne its hard to think how much better they could get it to look graphically.

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It's fucking dumb to debate the value proposition of something that we don't even know exists and to what extent is a remaster. Not all remasters are the same anyway - some have an extensive amount of work go into them and some are lazy up-ports that should have just been a patch or heavily discounted.

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I don't know - look at the recent Saints Row 3 remake which shows much can truly be done when I would have just shrugged my shoulders and gone they'll make it sharper before watching the digital foundry of it. It's not for me to judge until I see a product that exists but I certainly won't sit here and go "yeah that will be a rip off" based on fucking no information.

 

And where is the evidence that making a remaster or something directly stops a sequel being made? Bluepoint wouldn't be making bloodborne 2 so unless From's A team were working on it I don't get that argument either. I assume there was a similar kick off at the Master Chief Collection from the same folk here hmmm

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Alex W. said:

Sorry, I should be a bit clearer about exactly what he said. He matter-of-factly states that simple scenes increase CPU power consumption*, and then speculates that's what's going wrong with map screens. It's the matter-of-fact "simple geometry needs more electrical power" thing I really want to understand.

I think this Resetera post has the answer.

 

The short version is that less complex scenes can be engaging most of the transistors at the same time, as whilst there's a lot of apparent activity none of the processing is complicated meaning all the tasks are tackled concurrently. Very complex scenes engage more of the chip than usual, but draw doesn't peak to the same extent because complex jobs are more likely to have to wait for other functions to finish, leading to more staggered transistor flipping.

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42 minutes ago, Ferine said:

I think this Resetera post has the answer.

 

The short version is that less complex scenes can be engaging most of the transistors at the same time, as whilst there's a lot of apparent activity none of the processing is complicated meaning all the tasks are tackled concurrently. Very complex scenes engage more of the chip than usual, but draw doesn't peak to the same extent because complex jobs are more likely to have to wait for other functions to finish, leading to more staggered transistor flipping.


Ah! Now I get it. And I can see what the boost clocks are about.
 

The console has, say, 120 watts of electrical power at its disposal and the cooling system can clear 120 watts of heat. Suppose you have code that used 1 joule per tick, you could afford to do 120 ticks per second in that 120 watts, and that’s what you’d want as your clock speed. But if you had code that used half a joule per tick, you could double the speed and stay in the power budget. (Obviously these are orders of magnitude away from reality.)

 

On current systems you get whatever clock speed the system is designed to run at regardless of whether it’s appropriate for the computational problem. And the power consumption and heat output of the system vary from moment to moment depending on what computations it’s doing, and all you do is adjust the fan speed to get rid of however much heat that makes.
 

The boost clocks mean the system is changing its performance profile continuously so that whatever the game code is doing, it’s using all of the available energy, no more and no less.
 

Of course ideally the code would be written so that it was using the chips in the most energy-effective way, but that was never a priority. The PS5 instead becomes whatever system is more appropriate for that code. And if the code is incredibly power hungry, instead of turning the console in to a jet engine as it tries to bail out more heat than it was designed for, the console will hit the electrical power ceiling and the code will run slowly. So the developers will be incentivised to optimise the code to get the most performance per joule.

 

What that should mean in practice is that the PS5 fan runs at the same speed all of the time. Although it’ll run faster in a hot room than a cold one, it won’t vary by game.

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2 hours ago, rafaqat said:

 

Wouldn't you rather we got our existing versions jazzed up for free?


meanwhile in crazy land everything’s free

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5 hours ago, Mike S said:

 

That's a pretty stupid question.

 

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, sid said:


meanwhile in crazy land everything’s free

 

Guys. I have some magic beans to sell you.

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1 hour ago, rafaqat said:

 

 

Guys. I have some magic beans to sell you.

 

WTF are you talking about?

 

A couple of us state that, yeah, we'd happily pay for a remastered version of one of the greatest games of all time to which you ask 'would't you rather have it for free?' Well, duh, of course we would but that is not on offer it it? So, a pretty stupid question. And then you come back with some dumb ' I have magic beans to sell' snark despite being the one actually expecting magic beans. Amazing.

 

Anyways, I've got plenty of form with FROM mutlibuys -  I've bought Demons twice, Dark Souls 5 (maybe 6) times, DaS 2 three times, and DaS3 twice. Bloodborne is the only one I have only bought once so, yeah, I'll happily pay again as I'll  always be playing through the game in some form or other for as long as I have hardware that runs it.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Mike S said:

 

WTF are you talking about?

 

A couple of us state that, yeah, we'd happily pay for a remastered version of one of the greatest games of all time to which you ask 'would't you rather have it for free?' Well, duh, of course we would but that is not on offer it it? So, a pretty stupid question. And then you come back with some dumb ' I have magic beans to sell' snark despite being the one actually expecting magic beans. Amazing.

 

Anyways, I've got plenty of form with FROM mutlibuys -  I've bought Demons twice, Dark Souls 5 (maybe 6) times, DaS 2 three times, and DaS3 twice. Bloodborne is the only one I have only bought once so, yeah, I'll happily pay again as I'll  always be playing through the game in some form or other for as long as I have hardware that runs it.

 

 

 

Sigh.  You were saying you'd happily pay for a remaster with some up-rezzed graphics.  I was saying that you SHOULD get the patch/upgrade free (or for a very small fee) since that's not a huge amount of work given one man without access to source code managed to improve it so FROM shouldn't have too much work to do to get it to 1080p @ 60fps. What I'm saying is that you're mugs if you're more than happy to pay full price again for a touch up to the game (if it actually exists).   "It's not on offer".   It never will be if you guys go running throwing your wallets at these things. Amazing indeed!

 

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FROM won't be involved in any remaster, nor are they rumoured to be, so that's the end of that train of thought, really. People have been asking for 60fps Bloodborne since 2015 and they've never shown any interest in revisiting it despite doing similar with DS3 (and arguably fucking it up). I totally appreciate your point and I can logically understand why some people get up in arms about other people buying RE4 seven times or whatever but if it happens, it will require an external team to work on it and get paid and a new marketing cycle. Dark Souls Remastered released at £35. For some people that wasn't worth it, that's cool. I bought it on Switch and PS4, and money well spent. 

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9 hours ago, rafaqat said:

 

Sigh.  You were saying you'd happily pay for a remaster with some up-rezzed graphics.  I was saying that you SHOULD get the patch/upgrade free (or for a very small fee) since that's not a huge amount of work given one man without access to source code managed to improve it so FROM shouldn't have too much work to do to get it to 1080p @ 60fps. What I'm saying is that you're mugs if you're more than happy to pay full price again for a touch up to the game (if it actually exists).   "It's not on offer".   It never will be if you guys go running throwing your wallets at these things. Amazing 

 

 

Sigh.

 

I said I would happily play for a remaster with jazzed up graphics not that I'd pay for a 60 fps patch as I am a huge fan of the game, have played it multiple times, will be playing it many times more, and love it every single time. As such I feel will gain value from my payment for. That does not make me a 'mug'. Unless, of course, Bluepoint fuck it up. 

 

I have no idea if it will be full price as you suggest but outsourced remasters will never be free as, if done properly, there is work to do and, given the potential capability of the PS5 and current PCs relative to what FROM were capable of on the PS4 6 years ago, I'm pretty optimistic that it'll involve more than higher resolution and 60fps. Simple upscaled and 60fps could indeed be free, as Microsoft have shown with their BC programme, but, really, I am expecting a little more from any remaster.

 

But, again, I am not a 'mug' for wanting to play Bloodborne in (hopefully) the best way it can be played but you are a fantasist for expecting such work for free. As stated, I have bought Dark Souls 5 or 6 times across multiple platforms and still don't feel ripped off given how much enjoyment I've gained fromthe game which and that may well make me a 'mug'. You, obviously, can vote with your righteous wallet and carry on playing the PS4 version. That'll show 'em!

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, footle said:

Demons Souls, sure. But Bloodborne? what are they going to do apart from upscale and unlock 60fps?

 

Make. New. Games.

 

Why not both?

 

Remastering Souls and Bloodborne has not stopped FROM from working on Elden Ring.

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Guys, stop engaging with Rafa. Remember he is akin to JPL and is only here to troll the thread and make out 'Xbox is the best PlayStation sucks' like he has for the past seven years - just ignore (and pity) him. Other posters outside of these two idiots have their valid complaints and concerns, people like that generally engage properly and don't reply with their fingers in their ears (like a Tory/Republican) as seen above.

 

Edit: Just looked at Rafa's recent posts and he is bleating on and crying about the horrors of the imagined Bloodborne remaster in the Xbox thread too :lol:

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33 minutes ago, The Mighty Ash said:

Any chance the event will happen this week do we think?

 

No I think it will be week beginning 22nd

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2 hours ago, Haribokart said:

Guys, stop engaging with Rafa. Remember he is akin to JPL and is only here to troll the thread and make out 'Xbox is the best PlayStation sucks' like he has for the past seven years - just ignore (and pity) him. Other posters outside of these two idiots have their valid complaints and concerns, people like that generally engage properly and don't reply with their fingers in their ears (like a Tory/Republican) as seen above.

 

Edit: Just looked at Rafa's recent posts and he is bleating on and crying about the horrors of the imagined Bloodborne remaster in the Xbox thread too :lol:

 

Weird.  You've said twice already that you were going to put me on ignore and yet here we are still. With you having been banned multiple times...

 

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3 hours ago, Mike S said:

 

 

Sigh.

 

I said I would happily play for a remaster with jazzed up graphics not that I'd pay for a 60 fps patch as I am a huge fan of the game, have played it multiple times, will be playing it many times more, and love it every single time. As such I feel will gain value from my payment for. That does not make me a 'mug'. Unless, of course, Bluepoint fuck it up. 

 

I have no idea if it will be full price as you suggest but outsourced remasters will never be free as, if done properly, there is work to do and, given the potential capability of the PS5 and current PCs relative to what FROM were capable of on the PS4 6 years ago, I'm pretty optimistic that it'll involve more than higher resolution and 60fps. Simple upscaled and 60fps could indeed be free, as Microsoft have shown with their BC programme, but, really, I am expecting a little more from any remaster.

 

But, again, I am not a 'mug' for wanting to play Bloodborne in (hopefully) the best way it can be played but you are a fantasist for expecting such work for free. As stated, I have bought Dark Souls 5 or 6 times across multiple platforms and still don't feel ripped off given how much enjoyment I've gained fromthe game which and that may well make me a 'mug'. You, obviously, can vote with your righteous wallet and carry on playing the PS4 version. That'll show 'em!

 

 

Fair point. Apologies. I was being harsh. It's probably more my general Bloodborne experience (save game incompatibilities) so far that has annoyed me more than the Demon Souls remake news I guess.   

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1 hour ago, The Mighty Ash said:

Any chance the event will happen this week do we think?

 

I can't see them wanting to dilute the marketing message for TLOU 2, so probably not until that's been out for a week or two.

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7 minutes ago, mansizerooster said:

 

I can't see them wanting to dilute the marketing message for TLOU 2, so probably not until that's been out for a week or two.

 

Early July I reckon.

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I think the event will happen this week, probably Thursday. As no one's attending they don't need to give much notice and the longer they delay it the more it impacts future scheduling, both for Sony and – more contentiously – any third-parties. For example, we're probably going to see footage of the new Call of Duty and I'm sure Activision wouldn't be thrilled at putting that on ice for weeks.

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