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Does anyone else not give a monkeys about that Sekiro game?

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26 minutes ago, Stanshall said:

 

Yes, the Souls community is renowned for being unaccommodating and unhelpful, hence only the three wikis. 

 

Three wikis to help you learn how to pay your dues and git gud ;)

The 3 wikis could happily coexist alongside an easy mode(which if done right wouldn`t require the use of 3 wikis).

 

Apologies if it seems like I was saying the Souls community are unhelpful or unaccommodating when it comes to new players wanting to learn how to play the game the right way.

I wasn`t, they seem like a friendly enough bunch. I was speculating that perhaps the resistance to an easy mode that people would be free to ignore (and therefore wouldn`t effect their own playthroughs of the game) is a form of gatekeeping. Otherwise, I don`t quite understand why people would care how someone else plays a game, if the existence of an easy mode is the difference between them playing it or just not playing it.

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Stanshall said:

Yes, the Souls community is renowned for being unaccommodating and unhelpful, hence only the three wikis. 

 

Most people who reach the zenith of Truegamer almost always want to help others up to their level. It promotes community, discussion, genre popularity, and thus increases the chances of similar games being produced.

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54 minutes ago, SharkyOB said:

Thread name needs changing.

 

If it's to FromSoftware games in general, then I'd agree ;)

 

I've not played one of their games in ages. I suppose I should at some point, but the art is so blah and uninviting to my tastes, never mind the actual content.

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13 minutes ago, partious said:

 

Three wikis to help you learn how to pay your dues and git gud ;)

The 3 wikis could happily coexist alongside an easy mode(which if done right wouldn`t require the use of 3 wikis).

 

Apologies if it seems like I was saying the Souls community are unhelpful or unaccommodating when it comes to new players wanting to learn how to play the game the right way.

I wasn`t, they seem like a friendly enough bunch. I was speculating that perhaps the resistance to an easy mode that people would be free to ignore (and therefore wouldn`t effect their own playthroughs of the game) is a form of gatekeeping. Otherwise, I don`t quite understand why people would care how someone else plays a game, if the existence of an easy mode is the difference between them playing it or just not playing it.

 

 

 

 

To be completely honest, though, I've genuinely not seen any resistance to an easy mode. Please do correct me if I've missed the relevant posts but I think the points that are being made from the 'Souls side' are not at all that there shouldn't be accessibility options or easy modes or anything to getting more people to try the games.

 

Personally, me saying that something would seem to be lost without the challenge (not just the invaluable e-peen credentials) definitely does not mean that I'm against whatever means possible to open these games up to more people.

 

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14 minutes ago, mushashi said:

 

If it's to FromSoftware games in general, then I'd agree ;)

 

I've not played one of their games in ages. I suppose I should at some point, but the art is so blah and uninviting to my tastes, never mind the actual content.

 

'Tedious discussions about whether all games should have difficulty settings'

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10 minutes ago, Stanshall said:

 

To be completely honest, though, I've genuinely not seen any resistance to an easy mode. Please do correct me if I've missed the relevant posts but I think the points that are being made from the 'Souls side' are not at all that there shouldn't be accessibility options or easy modes or anything to getting more people to try the games.

  

Personally, me saying that something would seem to be lost without the challenge (not just the invaluable e-peen credentials) definitely does not mean that I'm against whatever means possible to open these games up to more people. 

  

 

To also be completely honest, I agree that the experience would lose most if not all of its charm if they didn`t have the difficulty and that feeling of overcoming the challenges. I`ve been getting annoyed by reviewers dismissing arcade games as "too short" after credit feeding their way through since the Dreamcast days.

I bought Bloodborne at some stage and soon realised I don`t want to put in the time/dedication to get good at it. I really like the artstyle and setting though. If there was an easy mode I`d walk through it, because why not. I`d get to experience the setting etc and wouldn`t feel (as much) like I wasted 20 quid.

 

On the topic of From, I used a gameshark cheat to get past the difficulty spike at the very end of Echo Night on PS1 :)

 

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7 minutes ago, Uncle Mike said:

That seems a very unlikely viewpoint. The art is blah?

 

Yes, they don't do pleasing looking games. Compare Sekiro's art to a comparable title, Sucker Punch's Ghost of Tsushima. They've never been good at making nice looking games imo.

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1 hour ago, mushashi said:

 

Yes, they don't do pleasing looking games. Compare Sekiro's art to a comparable title, Sucker Punch's Ghost of Tsushima. They've never been good at making nice looking games imo.

I think the art in Souls and this is way up there, I love the design, of everything. Don't get me wrong Tsushima looks super stylish but From have a real flair and imagination IMO. I love that kind of accuracy and authenticity in their historical settings mixed with supernatural horror and fucking weirdness. 

 

I did a series of drawings when I first played Dark Souls I found it so inspiring.

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On 18/03/2019 at 22:40, Isaac said:

You'll find me with Yoshi having a delightful time.

Yep that's what I'm waiting for too roll on the 29th....Oh an no to the thread title... never even heard of it! :-\ 

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Eurogamer has an article up on this subject. Seems this game prompted similar discussions all over the place and various developers have been giving their thoughts. Still a long way to go, but I think the games industry is slowly improving.

 

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2019-04-08-developers-say-accessibility-and-difficulty-options-are-no-threat-to-artistic-vision

 

Cory Barlog (God of War)

 

 

J.P. Kellams (ex-Platinum Games)

 

 

 

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I would love to play the from software games but having tried Bloodborne & Darks Souls on a number of occasions I'm just not good enough a player.

Sekiro looks awesome & set in Japan I would enjoy the hell out of it but the difficulty would limit my enjoyment. Looking forward to Ghost of Tushima instead I guess.

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Dark Souls has easy mode. Summon help. Now days you can even summon multiple help. Most bosses are designed for single player and fall quickly to multiple players. Same with Bloodborne.

 

Sekiro, not so much. Git gu... really, controller smashing frustrated. 

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On 19/03/2019 at 06:59, the_debaser said:

I’d be more interested if it was on switch. 

 

Hopefully it has an easy mode. Dark Souls would’ve benefited from one. 

 

I think playing Dark Souls or any similar game on a platform that can be thrown out the window is a recipie for disaster.

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On 19/03/2019 at 00:21, Broker said:

 

Dark Souls is literally filled with mechanics designed to mitigate the difficulty, all of which are more intelligent than a lazy, binary menu choice. My girlfriend couldn't use the right stick to look around when she started playing Bloodborne, and she finished it without summoning help. You literally just need to try, and if you don't want to that's fine. But ruining the design of the game with old fashioned difficulty options would not improve it.

 

Agree. Just started playing Bloodborne for the first time at the weekend. I was put off for a long while by stories of its difficulty level and also the fact I've never really got on with Japanese RPGs before (used to be mainly turn based combat random encounters) . 

 

However this is a breath of fresh air. Whilst I'm not disputing its perhaps difficult to work out what is going on when you start (not having played any of the Souls games before). This feels to be all part of the experience - learning what is going on and how to approach attacking things.

 

Its not a hard game but I would say its more of a deeper game that requires more input from the player. Which is a good thing? Saying that the axe I picked up seems to be doing the trick so far without too much strategy has to be said..  :D 

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Not sure if this has been posted yet, but it's really good. Hits on a few really great points: one, that Sekiro is both the most accessible game From have ever made as well as maybe being the most punishing. And another, that accessibility is not the easiest thing to define and pin down: on one hand 'accessibility options' are a relatively uncontroversial addition, but if you want to accommodate a range of physical, sensory and mental ability you often need to allow players to tinker with the core game experience.

 

https://uk.ign.com/articles/2019/04/05/sekiro-accessibility-in-games-is-about-far-more-than-difficulty

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I've completed Dark Souls and thought it was a nice experience. However, I stopped playing Bloodborne in Old Yarnham as I felt it's always the same mechanism. And as opposed to, say, DMC5, it's a bloody OBVIOUS mechanism and I couldn't be bothered with it any longer. I'm also not interested in Sekiro at all - or DS2 or DS3 for that matter.

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That's the first part, yes. Fight enemy, die, fight again, advance, level up, die, fight, level up. Are all games like that? Yes, I do find Bloodborne way too obvious though (e.g. compared to DMC5 with its many weapons and styles and characters). I find that incredibly tiring after the first DS. The other part is the combat mechanism itself which mainly depends on a) the bosses' size and speed and sounds (even though they all behave the same and the size and horror isn't really reflecting on their underlying fighting style) and b) the same old "way to victory", namely evading, running, attacking and benefiting from higher levels.

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Yeah if it helps I agree with you for the most part about the Souls bosses and I got bored of them too. But Sekiro is very different and I love it. 

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Its my fav, for sure. You actually feel like a boss when you parry some attacks, even now after countless hours of play.

 

I never felt that level of 'bad-assery' in any of the souls games, or bloodborne. And I love bloodborne.

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When Matt Thorston made that tweet suggesting assist mode modifiers in Sekiro, I quoted it suggesting one of my own; extra revives after the given ones, but you're locked in the current area when you use them. I think this would avoid the problem of "I couldn't even tell what just took off half of my health" and allow you to stay in the area and learn, rather than running back all of the time.

 

Also, today I wrote a big thing about Sekiro on @Badger's Disposable Media website, because I wanted an outlet to ramble about stuff that I thought made the experience a bit disjointed. The TLDR is that in games like Bloodborne (and Souls to an extent, but I have less experience with that series) you feel like all of your gameplay options are viable all of the time - in Sekiro, I feel like that's only true some of the time. (Disclaimer: I've still enjoyed my time with Sekiro a lot, so I'm definitely not dunking on it for the sake of it! :) )

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4 hours ago, Harsin said:

Eurogamer has an article up on this subject. Seems this game prompted similar discussions all over the place and various developers have been giving their thoughts. Still a long way to go, but I think the games industry is slowly improving.

 

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2019-04-08-developers-say-accessibility-and-difficulty-options-are-no-threat-to-artistic-vision

 

That article links to a Twitter thread by Steve Spohn. I saw another thread by him the other day - my favourite bit was when someone arguing against him brought up the Street Fighter player Brolylegs, who plays Street Fighter with his cheek and mouth:

 

 

 

 

 

To which the response was:

 

 

 

BUT HE STILL ARGUES

 

 

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37 minutes ago, Vemsie said:

 

Ah, good old From Software, still confusing copyeditors everywhere:

 

Quote

Games developed by Japanese company Software have become synonymous with a design approach that requires the player to, through repeated failure, acquire highly tuned muscle memory and eventually the required skill to achieve success.

 

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I like Parkin’s writing but that’s just a nothing piece that sits square on the fence. Having your Parkin cake and eating it, if you will.

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