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Does anyone else not give a monkeys about that Sekiro game?

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7 hours ago, cohen205 said:

 

Why are you so angry? 

 

Dude, really? I’m not angry with you. I’m frustrated that you keep jumping to unfair conclusions about me, based on my frustrations with a game you love. And for the record, I haven’t negged you either.

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4 hours ago, alex3d said:

This is just ridiculous. Two German Let's Players - watch a few seconds in between and then fast forward to the last two minutes. Three hours fighting the same fight. Definitely not gonna touch this game :)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yy7fMRarg2Y&feature=youtu.be

 

 

I got PTSD watching that. But they got further than I did in a lot more attempts.

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14 minutes ago, jonamok said:

 

Dude, really? I’m not angry with you. I’m frustrated that you keep jumping to unfair conclusions about me, based on my frustrations with a game you love. And for the record, I haven’t negged you either.

 

Sorry bud, really didn't mean to come across as a dick. I was just offering suggestions, and if you aren't having fun with the game, then it makes sense to move onto something else.

 

The point i was trying to make was that my mate kept putting bloodborne off, as he thought it was going to be too difficult, but once he tried it, he loved it (more than me in fact)

 

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4 hours ago, alex3d said:

This is just ridiculous. Two German Let's Players - watch a few seconds in between and then fast forward to the last two minutes. Three hours fighting the same fight. Definitely not gonna touch this game :)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yy7fMRarg2Y&feature=youtu.be

 

I could only watch about 2 minutes of that, as they were both inept, and kept spamming the attack button regardless of what the boss was doing, and not bothering to parry or counter anything. And they wonder why they died all the time....

 

I love how a lot of the arguments for having a difficulty setting in this is how the game punishes you for failure. However, there's a problem with that - it doesnt. You only lose some Sen (which is ridiculously easy to get back) and some Exp, but with the latter you never lose acquired skill points, only the exp to the next skill point. Oh and Dragonrot? Its a pointless mechanic. Yes, I said pointless. All it does is prevent some dialogue from npc's and halt "quests" that involve those npc's.

 

Its more of an inconvenience than an actual penalty.

 

That may sound like I'm being negative with the game, but I'm not. Its just that these "barriers" articles keep mentioning, arent really barriers at all.

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@cohen205 We’re good. I want to love this game. I desperately do. I’ve probably put as many hours in as most of the forum. I just have a skill deficiency that practice isn’t resolving. That feels unfair to me. I know it isn’t, but you might agree if you ever hit the wall at some point too.

 

I am the perfect audience for a version of this game that’s a bit more forgiving of its players’ varying skill sets. Like all their previous games were. Oh well, I’m not done yet. Many more attempts and a lot more cathartic whining to come I’m afraid. 

:D

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@sandman Is it worth renaming this thread to reflect the fact the subject being discussed is much wider than just one game, which might help attract people to the thread who've ignored it until now? Maybe change it to something like: "Gaming difficulty and accessibility (Was: Does anyone else not give a monkeys about that Sekiro game?)"

 

 

Here's a thread collecting a list of different responses to common arguments against accessibility:

 

 

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It was really annoying that for ages a lot of the arguments about the issue involved journalists seemingly deliberately conflating accessibility and difficulty, muddying the waters of the debate and causing everyone to talk past each other. They're different things and the needs of people with disabilities shouldn't be hijacked for a totally different thing because some game journalists can't finish a game to review it. I would love a controller that doesn't fuck my hands due to my disability (MS Adaptive Controller isn't appropriate for me but is a brilliant thing), but that's nothing to do with difficulty, don't try to argue that those of us with shite joints, for example, can't play difficult games. 

 

And now GI.biz has posted an article saying what seems to be this same thing, but seems to understand it as happening the other way round, literally the opposite of what happened! 

1116606376292311041?s=19

 

(Also he uses the term 'differently abled' - please do not ever use this term for disabled people, it's incredibly patronising and many find it offensive. Reveals the writer is doing the same thing, using disabled people as a crutch for a weak argument). 

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1 hour ago, deerokus said:

It was really annoying that for ages a lot of the arguments about the issue involved journalists seemingly deliberately conflating accessibility and difficulty, muddying the waters of the debate and causing everyone to talk past each other. They're different things and the needs of people with disabilities shouldn't be hijacked for a totally different thing because some game journalists can't finish a game to review it

  

And now GI.biz has posted an article saying this same thing, but seems to understand it as happening the other way round, literally the opposite of what happened! 

1116606376292311041?s=19

 

 

Unfortunately I don't think it's quite that simple; the bolded bit is definitely not a good way of looking at it.

 

Accessibility options are one thing, but accessibility also needs consideration of core gameplay difficulty. Disabilities aren't just about having neat, discrete functional limitations: sometimes they have a general effect on cognitive or motor functions, which can make games without any difficulty settings extremely challenging. This article says it better than anywhere else I've seen:

https://junkee.com/sekiro-game-difficulty/200666

 

It's also covered in the gaming accessibility guidelines:

http://gameaccessibilityguidelines.com/allow-gameplay-to-be-fine-tuned-by-exposing-as-many-variables-as-possible/

 

(Edit: I'm re-reading this and I hope it doesn't sound patronising. Sorry. Just trying to dig into this issue about the relationship between 'options', accessibility and difficulty - certainly don't want to be telling you about your own experiences of disability. Have you read the IGN piece by Cherry Rae about working through Bloodborne with a disability? She sounds way better at it than I was, but experienced severe pain during long sessions)

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That’s a great article and absolutely spot on on all counts. Of course the entire thing is utterly refuted by a simple statement you’ll read plenty of times on here and other “gamer” forums:

 

“It’s From’s vision for the game and that’s their choice, and if that’s not for you then that’s your choice.”

 

Which is as infuriating and regrettable as it is correct.

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I've been happy to sit back and let this thread run its course. It seems to have changed organically into something quite different from what i envisioned. 

 

For what it's worth I think every game should have a story mode with little to no challenge and should be able to be saved anywhere. Gaming is still stuck in its arcade roots 20 years after arcades disappeared. I think that if gaming ever wants to be properly appreciated as art (like say a Hockney paining or Cosi Fan Tutte or 2001) then it needs to be approachable to all, not walled off to a very small subset of a very small subset. Gaming has yet to grow up which is why it's still looked down upon by most people. Leave the difficulty in for people who appreciate it, but why on earth stop everyone from appreciating something youve for worked for years on? It's utterly banal to me. 

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18 minutes ago, sandman said:

For what it's worth I think every game should have a story mode with little to no challenge and should be able to be saved anywhere.

Yeah I'd love a 60 hour epic Tetris story mode.

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4 hours ago, jonamok said:

@cohen205 We’re good. I want to love this game. I desperately do. I’ve probably put as many hours in as most of the forum. I just have a skill deficiency that practice isn’t resolving. That feels unfair to me. I know it isn’t, but you might agree if you ever hit the wall at some point too.

 

I am the perfect audience for a version of this game that’s a bit more forgiving of its players’ varying skill sets. Like all their previous games were. Oh well, I’m not done yet. Many more attempts and a lot more cathartic whining to come I’m afraid. 

:D

I love it, keep going! It’s good to listen to some tales of boss battles that don’t make me feel completely inadequate!

 

I haven’t played it in a week because of work, but I left it before GenA and was getting nowhere with him. I can only imagine the week off will have made my ‘skills’ even worse. 

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So I'd come around to the conclusion that maybe I just needed to accept that some games aren't for me and that asking for accessibility options would be entitled or something.

 

And then a couple of weeks ago I bought Celeste. And playing it at first my heart sunk. I could tell early on that my reflexes weren't up to the task any longer. So I played around the accessibility options. Granting myself infinite stamina and boost. ANd I know this isn't how the game is meant to be played but with my reflexes it's still rock hard....but somewhat enjoyable.

 

And tonight after years of not touching it I went back to VVVVVV after discovering it had accessibility options. And again it was just way too hard. But by merely turning down the speed from 100% to 80% it changed an impossible game into an incredibly hard game. And now I've "finished" it almost two hours and under 500 deaths later. Do I feel like I've diminished the experience for the top ranked players? Not at all, the top trophy for a no death run can only be achieved with none of the accessibility options on. ANd that's ok. I'll never be a champion tennis player but that shouldn't prevent me from faffing about with some friends on the court or even from hitting a ball against a wall.

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9 hours ago, Unofficial Who said:

So I'd come around to the conclusion that maybe I just needed to accept that some games aren't for me and that asking ...

[...]

... but that shouldn't prevent me from faffing about with some friends on the court or even from hitting a ball against a wall.

 

Great avatar/post combo.

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