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Sony definitely not buying Take Two

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35 minutes ago, gossi the dog said:

 

It's called debt

They're not in debt, splurging all their cash on that one purchase would be highly risky.

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11 minutes ago, Stanley said:

They're not in debt, splurging all their cash on that one purchase would be highly risky.

 

He means they would borrow the money, as of December 2018 Sony had ~$5billion dollars of long term debt.

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4 minutes ago, metallicfrodo said:

 

He means they would borrow the money, as of December 2018 Sony had ~$5billion dollars of long term debt.

Yeah I know, I still think it's risky.

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16 hours ago, Mr Tony said:

 

In what world is MS even fucked in the slightest bit? They're making about $2 Billion every 3 months in just the gaming division. The whole software division is about $10 billion every 3 months. It's all on a rise of about 8-10% a quarter. The market is massive enough for more than just one company.

 

I think you, like most people confuse revenue and actual profit, as no way in hell is Microsoft generating $8+ Billion in pure profit from gaming, they only broke $10 Billion for the first time last year in games revenue, and gaming isn't that lucrative, it ain't Cloud or OS/Office.

 

 

Take-Two only has two things worth stealing for a platform holder, the Housers and Visual Concepts (and then only because of the NBA license).

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2 hours ago, gossi the dog said:

 

It was worth US$10.9 billion at the market close of US$96 per share. At the mooted US$130 per share price, you're looking at around US$14.8 billion.

 

That would fund an awful lot of WWS expansion, a much better use of the money than buying a multiplatform publisher to access their software catalogue, it's what the smart money is doing in every other media field.

 

Grow your own, it's the future.

 

 

3 hours ago, bear said:

Hard to see how Sony buying Take Two wouldn't end up as being bad/more expensive for enthusiasts like your average Rllmuk forumite. Microsoft would almost certainly respond (Sega, Square?) and you'd imagine Goolge and Amazon would make moves to bolster their streaming services. Could end up needing two consoles, a PC and subscriptions to at least three services. 

 

No different to a post-Netflix Utopia world. There will never be one ring to rule them all in any lucrative market.

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This isn't happening but acquisitions can be done with shares rather than cash.  Even shares created for the specific purpose of the acquisition.  I remember this being quite common in the games industry a few years back.

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4 minutes ago, linkster said:

Take Two can't possibly own the GTA IP, surely? There would never have been any reason for the studio to grant that to anyone.

 

Why else are they worth anything at all otherwise...

 

If the Housers left, they'd be fucked, which is why their compensation package is so big.

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7 minutes ago, linkster said:

Take Two can't possibly own the GTA IP, surely? There would never have been any reason for the studio to grant that to anyone.

Take Two bought DMA design for a £1.

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4 minutes ago, mushashi said:

 

Why else are they worth anything at all otherwise...

That's what I'm questioning. Wouldn't be the first time a company in games has laughably overvalued itself in the hope of making a killing

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Just now, metallicfrodo said:

What do you mean, hand it over? DMA were sold off to Take Two for 1 pound and take two assumed 12million in debt. I assume at that point Take Two also took ownership of any of DMA's IP.

RDR didn't exist then. Why also yield a brand new IP to a publisher if you don't have to?

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RDR (the 'R' in this case being 'revolver') was in development at Angel Studios when they were bought by Take Two. I would hazard a guess that Take Two took ownership of the Red Dead IP at the same time.

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2 minutes ago, linkster said:

RDR didn't exist then. Why also yield a brand new IP to a publisher if you don't have to?

 

If Take Two own Rock Star then they own any IP they create.

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The market value of Take-Two is determined by the market investing participants, not the company who only got paid once when they floated many years ago and for any new shares they might have printed since.

 

It's a publicly traded company, you only need to convince who ever holds the shares at the time to sell to you and you can buy pretty much anybody, unless somebody smart put in some interesting clauses in terms of voting rights, which quite a few of the tech companies like to do.

 

 

Just now, K said:

RDR (the 'R' in this case being 'revolver') was in development at Angel Studios when they were bought by Take Two. I would hazard a guess that Take Two took ownership of the Red Dead IP at the same time.

 

Capcom originally funded the first game, so they probably sold the rights to Take-Two.

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1 minute ago, linkster said:

RDR didn't exist then. Why also yield a brand new IP to a publisher if you don't have to?

 

 

Rockstar are a subsidiary of Take Two, admittedly I can't be sure but it's entirely feasible therefore that Take Two own all the IP.

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1 minute ago, JPickford said:

 

If Take Two own Rock Star then they own any IP they create.

Aye, I'm just a bit puzzled, I assumed given GTA has been strong for so long Rockstar would have done a Bungie

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2 minutes ago, linkster said:

Aye, I'm just a bit puzzled, I assumed given GTA has been strong for so long Rockstar would have done a Bungie

 

Why would Take Two ever allow them to buy themselves out. And what would be the point for Rockstar if they don't own the IP?

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Games are generally funded by publishers and they generally get the rights to the games in return for taking that risk. Take-Two bought the assets of BMG Interactive, who the Housers worked for. That is how they obtained the rights to Grand Theft Auto, not via the purchase of the developer.

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1 minute ago, mushashi said:

Games are generally funded by publishers and they generally get the rights to the games in return for taking that risk. Take-Two bought the assets of BMG Interactive, who the Housers worked for. That is how they obtained the rights to Grand Theft Auto, not via the purchase of the developer.

 

They didn't acquire DMA until a few years later from what I recall.

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Just now, metallicfrodo said:

 

Why would Take Two ever allow them to buy themselves out. And what would be the point for Rockstar if they don't own the IP?

 

Microsoft let Bungie walk away cos they were so strong through Halo, and the knew they could leverage the IP it left behind, there wasn't a huge amount to be gained from forcing them to walk away and start up something else, so its not exactly without precedent

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10 minutes ago, mushashi said:

Games are generally funded by publishers and they generally get the rights to the games in return for taking that risk. Take-Two bought the assets of BMG Interactive, who the Housers worked for. That is how they obtained the rights to Grand Theft Auto, not via the purchase of the developer.

Aye I know how it works, it's just there are certain players who are so synonomous with a product that you'd think a bit more flex on behalf of the publisher was necessary to keep them close

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Im wondering if this story came about because TTWO is about to go through some restructuring of their business, kind of like how Blizzard/Activision has had to fire a lot of people etc. And then Sony might have been one of the candidates for taking over maybe some of the studios that TTWO currently own, but it was never more than that - just an initial survey into potential partners for a takeover.

 

Thats just speculation on my part, I cant see any reason why TTWO would be in a bad shape otherwise.

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Just now, metallicfrodo said:

Yeah but Bungie wanted to do something different. I don't see Rockstar North being interested in anything else.

that's why I mentioned RDR but again I might just be wrong about when that IP came into being

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1 minute ago, linkster said:

Aye I know how it works, it's just there are certain players who are so synonomous with a product that you'd think a bit more flex on behalf of the publisher was necessary to keep them close

 

Yes, which is why the Housers and The Benz (before they got greedy and stole his share of the spoils) got paid a cut of the profits, like some Hollywood movie star getting a cut of the box office.

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Just now, mushashi said:

 

Yes, which is why the Housers and The Benz (before they got greedy and stole his share of the spoils) got paid a cut of the profits, like some Hollywood movie star getting a cut of the box office.

fair dos. must be some fucking package... you'd think they'd want seats on the board for that

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If it happened and it won't, I can't imagine they'd take the games exclusive, would simply not be worth the expense. It'd be like Microsoft with Minecraft, or when Sony had that MMO studio. 

 

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