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Rian Johnson Star Wars trilogy

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23 minutes ago, b00dles said:

I know you are and goet verdomme are you better at English than I am at Dutch, I just wasn't sure if I was totally missing the joke. Not trying to be a dick :D

Thanks for the compliment, and I recommend hanging around on a Dutch forum for more than a decade to massively improve your language skills! My Dutch logic was this: K was referring to the books towards the end instead of the books at the start. Thus, a choice between two things/concepts, and therefore 'latter'. :(

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Aha. Do you recommend rllmNL? :P

 

Latter only really works if the former is explicitly mentioned too as far as I'm aware. If it would have been "if you'd read books 1-3 and 4-6, in the latter ones...".

 

Then again I may well be completely wrong so don't apologise for any of it!

 

Edit: I looked it up because I'm exciting like that and it says this;

 

occurring or situated nearer to the end of something than to the beginning.

"the latter half of 1989"

 

Which to me means that had k had written the "later half of the books" he'd have been wrong. So it's not egregiously wrong either way. Just me not sure if there was something else to it and my weak attempt to make a Benioff & Weiss gag at the expense of your excellent second language skills. 

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3 hours ago, Chadruharazzeb said:

 

By all accounts HBO were willing to give them all the time and budget they could need. Problem was that they didn't want it. 

 

Which makes the last season even more of an insult now the project they rushed to get too has been canned.

 

Season 7 and 8 needed at least 3 full length 10 episode seasons to finish it off, maybe even 4. So much was left unanswered too. Lets not pretend they didnt do an amazing job for the first 5 seasons at least. It's all very frustrating

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1 hour ago, K said:

Have you read the later Game of Thrones books? The idea that the last series of GoT would have been better if GRRM had written it strikes me as really odd. It's as if Michelangelo started off painting the Sistine Chapel, and then had the chapel extended and started painting that bit, and then had it extended again, and again, had ten years off to rest and paint some other chapels nobody gives a fuck about, and eventually the chapel is six miles long and still not finished, and the ceiling at the start is lovely but the ceiling five miles in is just full of stick men and speed dobbers and massive drawings of plates of food.


Given that the show was great until we hit the bits not based on the books, it’s more like Weiss and Benioff were using the books to write a great TV show, ran out of material and then started producing crap.

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1 hour ago, Dirty Harry Potter said:

Disney don’t want a sniff of negativity around any future SW movies. I think we may not see another SW movie for quite a while - well at least until fans start demanding they want to see more silver screen adventures in a galaxy far far away.
 

Amazing how such a sure fire win as buying the SW saga has been completely mishandled by the best minds in Hollywood. Will make a fascinating behind the scenes read one day. 


Kevin Feige is still working on one I think. It wouldn’t surprise me if he’s been asked for some advice on how to structure the SW Universe moving forward, while he’s on the company dime.

 

I liked TLJ on first viewing, but the subversions weren’t given enough substance to bear repeat viewings for me. It’s like watching a movie with a few big twists that doesn’t work as well once you know what they are, especially with a two year build-up of expectation surrounding those story elements. Certain standalone films can pull that off, like Usual Suspects or Sixth Sense, because there’s enough there for you to notice on repeat viewings, but it felt like with TLJ they got to those points, slammed the twist at the audience, and just moved on. Maybe that was because he only had one film in the middle of a trilogy, and too many threads to include to do any one of them justice. Having a complete trilogy to give the story more depth would maybe suit him better.

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1 hour ago, womblingfree said:


Given that the show was great until we hit the bits not based on the books, it’s more like Weiss and Benioff were using the books to write a great TV show, ran out of material and then started producing crap.

 

Maybe, but what’s GRRM’s excuse for producing crap? The most recent GoT book was worse than anything in the series.

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Looking into this, where do Benioff & Weiss actually say they rushed the last series so they could get stuck into Star Wars? I can't find anything online, apart from Neil Marshall saying he thought the last episode was a bit rushed. That's a bit different to what people are saying, i.e. that the last series was truncated to let Benioff & Weiss get off it and onto their next project.

 

Happy to be proved wrong, but this feels a bit like nerd Chinese whispers that have transmogrified into accept fact.

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Yeah there's nothing, it's people adding it up and assuming. My own assumptions were that after ten years B&W were just a little bit sick of the work that goes into making Game of Thrones and wanted to move onto a new creative thing. Which sort of makes sense. 

 

As for the Feige thing, I think the Marvel model would be awful for Star Wars. I don't want inter-connectivity. The reason it works in Marvel movies is because they're interesting characters we already know, and we're seeing them on the big screen together for the first time. Whereas with Star Wars we've already seen everyone interesting together or at the very least in movies about the most interesting times of their lives. 

 

Give interesting directors carte blanche to do what they want with different parts of Star Wars. Stop linking them to the Skywalker Saga and stop making every one of them $200 million event movies. I stand by the fact that if Lord and Miller had been allowed to make a slightly cheaper Han Solo movie that didn't need to make a billion to be a success we've have had something a lot more interesting than what we got. 

 

But, and not to go all "you know who" and repeat an opinion about Star Wars until those weird cows from TLJ come home, I like each of the new movies. Disney have made 5 new Star Wars' and while they've each had their issues I've come away from them all pretty happy with the tenner I spent on my ticket. It'd be slightly nicer if filmmakers were allowed to be a bit more brave, yes, but then we've seen what happens to the fanbase when people vaguely move away from the template, so maybe I don't blame Disney for playing it a bit safe. 

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18 minutes ago, Mugman said:

The reason it works in Marvel movies is because they're interesting characters we already know

I'm not sure that's the case for a lot of people though. I certainly didn't know anything about the majority of the characters. Obviously I knew Spidey, Hulk, etc, but the others are totally new to me. It certainly hasn't stopped me enjoying how they've created the interconnecting universe.

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I think the Marvel approach works for them because each character is so strong on their own, as you'd probably expect from characters who've survived for sixty-odd years as the lead character of their own comic - sometimes of multiple comics simultaneously. With Star Wars, the appeal is in the ensemble cast and the setting - they've always been films about groups of people, rather than about individuals. Solo was the only time they've tried to focus a film on one character, and even then it was still an ensemble heist film that emphasised the fact that it was Han and Chewie and Lando and their pals, rather than Han feat. some other people.

 

I don't think you could have a Rey film, or even a Luke Skywalker film. Darth Vader is probably the only character who could really drive a film on his own, but even then the characters are closer to archetypes than real people. This isn't a problem in itself, but it does mean that it's harder to break away from the template of the Star Wars films so far. 

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3 hours ago, K said:

I don't think you could have a Rey film, or even a Luke Skywalker film. Darth Vader is probably the only character who could really drive a film on his own, but even then the characters are closer to archetypes than real people. This isn't a problem in itself, but it does mean that it's harder to break away from the template of the Star Wars films so far. 

 

You could have a Dr Aphra film.

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6 hours ago, K said:

Looking into this, where do Benioff & Weiss actually say they rushed the last series so they could get stuck into Star Wars? I can't find anything online, apart from Neil Marshall saying he thought the last episode was a bit rushed. That's a bit different to what people are saying, i.e. that the last series was truncated to let Benioff & Weiss get off it and onto their next project.

 

HBO offered them more episodes and they turned them down, also I think people actually watched the series and noted it was mad rushed.

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This Twitter thread from a Q&A session with Benioff and Weiss left me feeling somewhat relieved that they were no longer attached to a Star Wars series.

 

Fair play to them on making the most popular tv show in a generation, but you get the impression that a lot of the success is down to the great cast, crew and source material rather than them.

 

 

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Benioff and Weiss were very good at adapting existing source material into something watchable, into on of the best television shows even. Got to give them credit for that, it wasn't just the (excellent) cast and hard working crew. But they were terrible at coming up with something without having source material to adapt. That's on them but also on GRRM for not bothering writing the last few books.

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I think it’s clear B and W made some great choices - not least of which was pushing for Game Of Thrones to be a TV show.

 

And they seemed great at picking and editing GRRM’s storylines and characters. They also selected a top notch cast. 
 

However it is hard to ignore that Game Of Thrones’ writing quality fell of a cliff as soon as the books ran out. Sure they had some spectacle, but the series became decidedly shallow and lacked the depth it had had before. And the last season was a narrative joke, that didn’t (or couldn’t be bothered) to understand any of the wonderful themes that had made the series great.

 

And I think B and W’s actions are revealing. They seem to have been pretty unscrupulous about moving to the next biggest pay check without much loyalty. At least thats how it appears.

 

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https://chaser.com.au/general-news/game-of-thrones-writers-quit-star-wars-after-learning-franchise-has-already-been-ruined/?

 

Game of Thrones writers quit Star Wars after learning franchise has already been ruined.

 

Game of Thrones fans were left in shock this week following the biggest twist yet by Game of Thrones showrunners David Benioff and D.B. Weiss after the pair revealed that they will no longer be working on the Star Wars movies which led them to phone in the last season of the biggest TV show in history.

“While we were initially excited to ruin such an iconic franchise as Star Wars, we were upset to learn that Rian Johnson had already completely trashed the hollow husk left after George Lucas’s prequels,” explained Weiss this afternoon. “As far as we could tell anything we did as directors of the new trilogy would be a step up, and I’m afraid that’s just not our style.”

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31 minutes ago, Unofficial Who said:

 

The Chaser is the Australian version of The Onion.

Why are they posting factual news then?

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Looks like we can forget about the Rian movies now too. Iger says the movies are going on hiatus. But there are 3 more series in the works for Disney+. Not sure if that 3 includes the Kenobi one.

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With modern budgets and SFX, Star Wars might work better on the small screen anyway. I'm more excited for The Mandalorian that The Rise of Skywalker.

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On 08/11/2019 at 20:29, JohnC said:

Looks like we can forget about the Rian movies now too. Iger says the movies are going on hiatus. But there are 3 more series in the works for Disney+. Not sure if that 3 includes the Kenobi one.

 

Yep. @Dirty Harry Potter was on the money here, multiple news sources now confirming that Rian is out altogether.

 

https://cosmicbook.news/rian-johnson-out-star-wars-lucasfilm

 



It's claimed that multiple insiders are saying that Rian Johnson is out at LucasFilm.

It's said his proposed Star Wars trilogy at Disney is dead at LucasFilm.

That following the mixed reactions (an understatement) surrounding The Last Jedi, that Johnson's future with the franchise is cast in doubt.

It's said Disney doesn't want any bad publicity or controversy with The Mandalorian launching on Disney Plus next week. They also don't want controversy when The Rise of Skywalker comes out in December, so they are holding off any official announcement regarding the fate of Rian Johnson for now, but Johnson is gone.

It's further said that LucasFilm is in a creative rebooting pattern with Star Wars, (which is the reason for that recent Kevin Feige tackling Star Wars announcement and something that was also used to regain fan support as Feige's Marvel movies are loved by so many).

Regarding Rian Johnson's Star Wars vision, it's said he even wanted to go further with his distinct vision, but that Disney doesn't want to stray too much away from its core properties and rich history.

Disney feared Johnson's distinct vision would continue to anger the hardcore fans.

 

As I said earlier upthread. Sad news for some (like me) but great news for the majority of true fans.

 

It's going to be interesting to see if they set up the last movie in the trilogy with some bridging content in such a way that the majority of fans could quietly erase The Last Jedi from the cannon.

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1 hour ago, Nick R said:

 

Or put another way: great news for an unknown proportion of vocal self-proclaimed "true fans".

 

Well the vocal majority (most of whom talk about the silent majority etc)

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59 minutes ago, Unofficial Who said:

 

Well the vocal majority (most of whom talk about the silent majority etc)


Always good to let the vocal trolls online influence your creative decisions.

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I think the way Disney/Lucasfilm handled the fallout of TLJ was poor. As a result they aliened a lot of very vocal, passionate people that their SW business relied upon. Most of those people weren’t trolls, or racists or masochists. And to label them as such was wrong.
 

Perhaps rebooting SW was always destined to fail. It’s not like you can make a film that is going to please everyone (and with this saga more than any others) the fan base react loudly, and for years to come. Uncle George effectively torched his cinematic legacy making the prequels, and probably regrets creating them atall (because of all the abuse he suffered), so it must be like playing with fire.

 

Sad as it will be not to see anymore films for a while, I can see the future of the franchise working well in big budget TV. Creators can take more risks and the audience will be more open to it. And of course there will be more films at some point.
 

I look forward to reading about what actually went on behind the scenes during this period one day. With George. With the filmmakers. With Kathy, and with the story group. The politics of the boardroom, the shareholders, and a mob like fan base. It’s got it all. It should be a textbook cautionary tale of what running a one of the biggest franchises in the world is really like. And maybe the most interesting Star Wars story yet.

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@Darren

 

I agree with the rest of what you say, but I'm not sure Star Wars was low budget. It didn't cost much less than that year's Bond film, and $11m was a pretty significant amount for a film in 1977.

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