Rian Johnson Star Wars trilogy (still cancelled.)

[Harsin]

And you think going on about 'haters' isn’t feeding into that?

[Stig]

20 minutes ago, Unofficial Who said:

 

Then why bother making the neg? It's going going to make someone look at their opinions on a film and suddenly say "oh, I guess I'd better magically like this then."

 

I get the temptation but in any thread involving TLJ you've got posters almost neg stalking anyone who didn't like TLJ. We're not getting negged for talking about why we liked TLJ in these threads, I don't think people who express why they didn't like it or why Disney needs to stop making movies like that should be negged when pretty much everyone here is arguing in good faith.

 

Some people have been though. The neg is there for a reason. Users discretion on how they see fit on how to use the system. If people dont like it, they can turn it off.

[Stig]

1 hour ago, Harsin said:

And you think going on about 'haters' isn’t feeding into that?

 

What else do you call someone that says they hate the film and tells you they hate it over and over? People who hate it are literally haters, that's the actually definition of the word. I'm not saying they are bad people or not allowed to hate it everyone is entitled to their opinion. Maybe these days that's the wrong word to use due to its association with certain corners of the net.

[hebejebe]

11 hours ago, Unofficial Who said:

 

Which is the opposite of what he says in the first part of the interview. They both can’t be true.

I think what he means is that they aren’t rushing out the next batch of movies. Both of those trilogies sound like they will be planned out from the beginning and I expect the next Episode trilogy to be done that way too. 

[Kevvy Metal]

2 hours ago, RubberJohnny said:

Kevvy Mental literally said disliking the film made people racists and misogynists.

 

2 hours ago, NickC said:

 

Must have missed / forgotten that. Dumb shit if he did. Got a link?

 

Edit: Searching for 'Rey', 'women', 'racist' and 'misogynst' under Kevvy Metal posts doesn't suggest he did. Although the forum search isn't great.

 

I have literally never said this, and would never say anything like that! 

What i will say, is that it will give me great pleasure reporting RubberJohnny for some false accusations. 

 

The one thing I did do in that TLJ thread, for some perspective was use the term "spergs" when frustratingly pointing out that a lot of people on the internet where getting hung up on the sillies of things. It was pointed out that it was inappropriate and I at least owned that and apologised for it. 

[squirtle]

3 hours ago, RubberJohnny said:

Kevvy Mental literally said disliking the film made people racists and misogynists.

Do you want to back this up with some links? I'd suggest you do, otherwise, you might want to retract this.

[Chadruharazzeb]

1 hour ago, Stigweard said:

 

What else do you call someone that says they hate the film and tells you they hate it over and over? People who hate it are literally haters, that's the actually definition of the word. I'm not saying they are bad people or not allowed to hate it everyone is entitled to their opinion. Maybe these days that's the wrong word to use due to its association with certain corners of the net.

 

Therefore everyone who loves it is a lover? Really? Are you a lover, Stigweard? Or are you a fighter? 

[probotector]

Have we confirmed that the news is true? This trilogy of shite is dead and buried?

 

What we really needed for a JJ trilogy. Sad that TFA set up some much stuff and we don’t see it pay off till the third movie.

 

If Disney are dumb enough to go with Rian for 3 more movies then Starwars is dead.

[Festoon]

I preferred TLJ to TFA personally.

 

TFA is just dull, dull, dull.

 

None of them a classic, though.

[Stig]

3 hours ago, Chadruharazzeb said:

 

Therefore everyone who loves it is a lover? Really? Are you a lover, Stigweard? Or are you a fighter? 

 

Technically I guess they are yeah. I'm more of an enjoyer of the film.

[sandman]

21 hours ago, probotector said:

This news and the awesomeness of the new trailer is just going to further cement the fact that TLJ was a fucking abortion of a movie.

 

Shame Rose is coming back to further shit on the story with her blandness, hopefully she's JarJar'd and just appears briefly.

 

I'm hoping for a larger part for Fin and hopefully he and Rey get it on.

I thought TLJ was excellent apart from Rose who was a poor character played by a shit actor (her complete lack of talent has absolutely nothing to do with her race or gender, she's just crap because she's crap) 

[amc]

I wish they took more care across some of the SW films in their casting of certain roles, especially high profile ones such as young Anakin and Rose. The blowback the actors can face from certain fans is extremely heavy. I love all things Star Wars and consume a lot of the build up and photos/media from before the films etc. It stings to see some of these actors beaming at junkets and red carpet premieres, all excited and believing the tales of how awesome it's going to be to have appeared in a Star Wars film. I'm sure I read something before TLJ hit theatres about Kelly/Rose being told by Hamill to enjoy the crazy ride and how her life will never be the same. Same with Jake Lloyd, he looks so buzzed at TPM red carpet. Poor kid, it wasn't his fault he was cast and not really up to the job. Then there is the recent story of Jar Jar wanting to jump off the Brooklyn bridge. Fucking hell.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying an actor shouldn't be criticised for a bad performance but some of the more vitriolic stuff is way, way out of line. I'm definitely in the camp that an actor can't ruin a film like Star Wars, they may not do it any favours but they're in such a large sprawling thing with so many pieces that any blame for the film as a whole lies in the writing not bringing those pieces together better. I've read some bullshit in places that Lloyd was the sole reason for TPM being shit. Nutters.

[TehStu]

It's time for me to completely step away from Star Wars on the internet. I mean, we can't impact each other's enjoyment, or lack thereof, but these threads are not healthy. 

[Unofficial Who]

It will be interesting to see the scripts of the trilogy in years to come and wonder about what could have been. Who knows, they might end up being great fodder for a game or comic.

[Festoon]

14 hours ago, amc said:

I wish they took more care across some of the SW films in their casting of certain roles, especially high profile ones such as young Anakin and Rose. The blowback the actors can face from certain fans is extremely heavy. I love all things Star Wars and consume a lot of the build up and photos/media from before the films etc. It stings to see some of these actors beaming at junkets and red carpet premieres, all excited and believing the tales of how awesome it's going to be to have appeared in a Star Wars film. I'm sure I read something before TLJ hit theatres about Kelly/Rose being told by Hamill to enjoy the crazy ride and how her life will never be the same. Same with Jake Lloyd, he looks so buzzed at TPM red carpet. Poor kid, it wasn't his fault he was cast and not really up to the job. Then there is the recent story of Jar Jar wanting to jump off the Brooklyn bridge. Fucking hell.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying an actor shouldn't be criticised for a bad performance but some of the more vitriolic stuff is way, way out of line. I'm definitely in the camp that an actor can't ruin a film like Star Wars, they may not do it any favours but they're in such a large sprawling thing with so many pieces that any blame for the film as a whole lies in the writing not bringing those pieces together better. I've read some bullshit in places that Lloyd was the sole reason for TPM being shit. Nutters.

 

Indeed. They're just films but people want them to be their religion, hence the insane vitriol directed at the actors. It's mainly a lack of understanding of how films are made.

 

For example look at the poster above saying that it's not Kelly/Rose's race or gender that' the problem, just that's she's a shit actor. If it was me I'd rather it was racism or sexism rather than a criticism of my acting. Also a bit weird how she seems to be criticised for being a bad actor and bland at the same time.

[Darren]

It’s very weird that TLJ in particular has been so polarising, and that now every Star Wars fan is in one of two camps depending on what they thought of it, and it’s almost a tribal thing like Brexit where there’s no hope of nuance.

 

To me TFA was exactly the right way to start off the new films, with a comfortable cookie-cutter SW film that did a few new things (non-Skywalker hero who’s actually a heroine) but mainly proved that it was possible to make an episode that was in the spirit of the originals and deliberately unlike the prequels. Some people thought it was too bland which I thought was a fair comment but it had a lot to do to turn around what had become a tarnished series, so I can’t blame them for playing it safe.

 

If the whole trilogy had followed the same pattern, though, then I’d be joining those criticising the blandness and safeness. For me, the next film had to shake things up and take risks and leaps into the unknown and that’s what TLJ did. Now not all of them paid off (I still think the whole casino adventure was poorly done although it was important for Finn’s character) but I’m glad they took those risks, and that we got a flawed but interesting episode. That’s entirely my personal taste though and I totally get that lots of people would have preferred something else.

 

But I just can’t understand how seriously some people take all this. Yes, it’s disappointing when something we’re personally invested in (and for anyone under about 55 Star Wars has been in their life since childhood), but at the end of the day they are just films. Some of the things that get said (on the internet generally, not so much here) about Ryan Johnson or Kelly Marie Tran are as hyperbolic as the old “Lucas raped my childhood” bullshit. No he didn’t, he just made some rubbish films that were nowhere near as good as the old ones. And if you didn’t like TLJ, the same is true.

 

And the good thing about it now is that with Disney in charge, there’ll be another film along soon enough, made by someone else with a different take which might turn out to be the best one yet! Or might turn out to make the AOTC love story seem like the introduction to Up. But if it’s a stinker, never mind, there’ll be yet another one along soon after that, and a tv series, and a cartoon, and a load of books, and comics, and on and on. They can’t possibly all be right for everyone’s different hopes and expectations. It’s fine not to like some of them. It doesn’t mean the whole series is ruined, or that the next instalment has to meet your personal requirements. And if it did, there’d still be a bunch of people complaining that the Zombie Palp vs Mecha Leia battle that dominated the final third and instantly became your Best Thing Ever has personally defecated in their childhood cornflakes.

[Treble]

Taking my SW hat off and putting a purely film critic-style chapeau on...

 

What's funny (peculiar) is how much 7 and 8 are entirely in keeping with the directors' previous films. TFA is pure JJ and TLJ is pure RJ. There's no template been established, no continuity of lore between both. TFA is a rip-roaring adventure done at full sprint, with some good threads that could be picked up by another creator. But like JJ's other stuff, it's great on character but shallow in terms of universe-building, and has diminishing returns on a re-watch as so much content is recycled. 

 

Episode 8 is almost a rebuke to 7. RJ seems irritated by JJ's setups and deliberately dissects them. I think it does this mostly for the better; it's a bit more mature and hints at a more complicated universe. In terms of it being a film, though, in my opinion it's... not great. The pace is jerky, the humour is totally out of place, he doesn't present action in a very exciting way (excepting the Snoke Room fight), and some characters' arcs are unnecessary so you end up bored or disappointed by any scenes not containing Rey, Luke or Kylo. 

 

So in answer to your post, @Darren, I think a lot of people are disappointed that Disney took the route they did: instead of giving the franchise to one creator and vision or, alternatively, having one MCU-like producer who governs the house style and continuity with an iron rod, they have a halfway house between the two which has made the franchise very messy. With so much storytelling potential available in that universe, it's a shame to see such a wild variance in quality and the types of tale being told.

 

[NickC]

On 14/04/2019 at 09:53, RubberJohnny said:

Kevvy Mental literally said disliking the film made people racists and misogynists.

 

@Rubber_Johnny any luck on finding where Kevvy Metal said that?

 

In a thread where people have felt shitty about how others members have treated them, I do hope you are not making stuff up to stir the pot some more. Particularly when it feels like people are trying to make an effort to be a bit nicer to each other about these films.

[Darren]

28 minutes ago, Treble said:

So in answer to your post, @Darren, I think a lot of people are disappointed that Disney took the route they did: instead of giving the franchise to one creator and vision or, alternatively, having one MCU-like producer who governs the house style and continuity with an iron rod, they have a halfway house between the two which has made the franchise very messy. With so much storytelling potential available in that universe, it's a shame to see such a wild variance in quality and the types of tale being told.

 

That’s totally fair and I think that was the idea for this trilogy, with Kathleen Kennedy taking on the uber-producer role, like Lucas did with the originals of course. And I also think that because she’s not herself a director or writer she gave more autonomy to her directors and writers than they had in the originals, or than the MCU folks get. Her original plan was that all three instalments in this trilogy would be made by different directors, and I think she rowed back on that after the TLJ backlash to give it back to JJ’s “safe” pair of hands. Which at least means the next film should tie in with the rest, even if JJ hasn’t really proved to be at his best when it comes to resolutions to his own set ups.

 

So of all the online criticism of individuals involved in Star Wars I think that aimed at Kennedy is the most justified, but even then she’s learning and adjusting as she goes along. And I suspect that the insane film-per-year pace was imposed on her by the Disney spreadsheet jockeys, and that kind of forced the middle film to be made by a different team because they had to do preproduction while the previous episode was still in production.

[Kevvy Metal]

19 minutes ago, NickC said:

 

@Rubber_Johnny any luck on finding where Kevvy Metal said that?

 

In a thread where people have felt shitty about how others members have treated them, I do hope you are not making stuff up to stir the pot some more. Particularly when it feels like people are trying to make an effort to be a bit nicer to each other about these films.

 

Having briefly looked, i think it may have stemmed where I - somewhat facetiously - asked Dirty Harry Potter if he had a problem with Rey's character or character arc or something, because she had a Vagina. Because I found the reasoning to be some what tenuous and I was getting annoyed. 

 

I've continually said that someone disliking the film is totally fine and their prerogative. Insinuating that everyone who dislikes it is either a misogynist or a racist is utterly ridiculous. 

[Treble]

9 minutes ago, Darren said:

 

So of all the online criticism of individuals involved in Star Wars I think that aimed at Kennedy is the most justified, but even then she’s learning and adjusting as she goes along. And I suspect that the insane film-per-year pace was imposed on her by the Disney spreadsheet jockeys, and that kind of forced the middle film to be made by a different team because they had to do preproduction while the previous episode was still in production.

 

Yeah, I do think that KK found herself out of her depth, but that it was put in her hands with the best intentions by Disney - she's been the best 'keeper of the flame' bar Lucas himself in just about forever.

[squirtle]

1 hour ago, Treble said:

Taking my SW hat off and putting a purely film critic-style chapeau on...

 

What's funny (peculiar) is how much 7 and 8 are entirely in keeping with the directors' previous films. TFA is pure JJ and TLJ is pure RJ. There's no template been established, no continuity of lore between both. TFA is a rip-roaring adventure done at full sprint, with some good threads that could be picked up by another creator. But like JJ's other stuff, it's great on character but shallow in terms of universe-building, and has diminishing returns on a re-watch as so much content is recycled. 

 

Episode 8 is almost a rebuke to 7. RJ seems irritated by JJ's setups and deliberately dissects them. I think it does this mostly for the better; it's a bit more mature and hints at a more complicated universe. In terms of it being a film, though, in my opinion it's... not great. The pace is jerky, the humour is totally out of place, he doesn't present action in a very exciting way (excepting the Snoke Room fight), and some characters' arcs are unnecessary so you end up bored or disappointed by any scenes not containing Rey, Luke or Kylo. 

 

So in answer to your post, @Darren, I think a lot of people are disappointed that Disney took the route they did: instead of giving the franchise to one creator and vision or, alternatively, having one MCU-like producer who governs the house style and continuity with an iron rod, they have a halfway house between the two which has made the franchise very messy. With so much storytelling potential available in that universe, it's a shame to see such a wild variance in quality and the types of tale being told.

 

Not to be facetious, but a lot of this could be levelled at A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back...

[Unofficial Who]

2 hours ago, Festoon said:

 

Indeed. They're just films but people want them to be their religion, hence the insane vitriol directed at the actors. It's mainly a lack of understanding of how films are made.

 

For example look at the poster above saying that it's not Kelly/Rose's race or gender that' the problem, just that's she's a shit actor. If it was me I'd rather it was racism or sexism rather than a criticism of my acting. Also a bit weird how she seems to be criticised for being a bad actor and bland at the same time.

 

I think there's something else going on here that's not down to gender, racism or being a bad actor or bland. There's always a danger when you use a character acting as an outsider into the inside ring of charaters quickly of the viewer hitting that weird "that could have been me" thing.

 

I mean Rose is just an ordinary person just standing there. Randomly. And suddenly she's swept up and rubbing shoulders with my favourite characters?

 

I'm describing this badly.

 

But I'm thinking along the lines of

Adric and the Doctor.

Wesley Crusher and the Enterprise.

 

That sort of thing. Not every character is going to land with everyone. And some of the criticism I'm seeing is similar to what I would have written about the examples I just listed. And in retrospect it was this weird jealousy that these "ordinary" people were in a place I might have wanted to be in.

 

That's my theory.

 

I go back to my line which hasn't changed. I loved TLJ. I loved the direction Rian took with it. But it needed harsher editing. And I can totally see how others more invested than I would hate it.

 

 

[Treble]

31 minutes ago, APM said:

Not to be facetious, but a lot of this could be levelled at A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back...

 

Some, maybe, but Lucas picked Kersh personally and then also worked hand in hand with him on the production. I feel like ESB adds loads to the mythos without actually subtracting anything.

[Dirty Harry Potter]

I just wish Lucas had forgotten about the Han, and Leia bants in ESB, and given us a lot more screen time of this Guy scolding Han for being a wise ass:

 

   

 

And this Guy,  having a cute adventure whilst teaching us about the economics of carbon mineral exports:

 

 

[Nick R]

3 hours ago, Darren said:

Her original plan was that all three instalments in this trilogy would be made by different directors, and I think she rowed back on that after the TLJ backlash to give it back to JJ’s “safe” pair of hands.

 

It happened earlier than that. It was publicly announced that JJ Abrams was replacing Colin Trevorrow as Episode IX director in September 2017; after the release and critical failure of Trevorrow's The Book of Henry, but before the release of The Last Jedi.

 

The replacement of Lord and Miller as directors of Solo had been confirmed in June 2017.

[Harsin]

I’m kind of sad that we’ll never get to see just how hilariously awful Colin ‘Book of Henry' Treverrow's Star Wars would have been.

[linkster]

More to the point, after replacing the directors of three tentpole movies in a billion dollar franchise, how the fuck is Kennedy still in a job?

[Pete]

As someone not emotionally connected to this franchise as you might expect given my general geekiness, I've found all the controversy over TLJ baffling and fascinating. Enjoyed reading these last few pages now the dust has settled a bit. 

 

What I still don't get is all the hate for the breast milk scene.

[SpagMasterSwift]

That whole sequence is amazing to be fair.