Rian Johnson Star Wars trilogy (still cancelled.)

[probotector]

On 30/11/2021 at 12:18, K said:

I think what Mark Hamill meant to say was that he shares my views on the Last Jedi.

Nah.

 

He walked it back with the usual PR shit.

 

He knows it’s trash. Some of his comments, they’re very guarded and no one would say such things about their film during a PR drive.

 

[probotector]

It’s sad that the prequel trilogy was 3 soft reboots and no satisfying pay off.

 

 

[K]

I think the wording of his statements on the film are interestingly ambiguous, you can read all sorts of things into them. Like, what could he mean by guarded, cautious statements like when he said that the Last Jedi was "one of the all-time great movies"? Hard to say what he means there. Did he like the film? Maybe not. Did he think it was one of the all-time great movies? I guess we'll never know.

[CarloOos]

12 hours ago, Talvalin said:

 

Slightly off-topic here, but could you elaborate on that a little please? What do you mean by "found out"?

Patty Jenkins is an interesting one, she’s been attached to and removed from loads of things in the past. Wonder Woman was a massive hit for her, but even then they didn’t immediately sign her for the sequel, which resulted in an outcry. When they did rehire her for the sequel, that sequel (which she co-wrote) was a disaster. So I’m guessing she’s in the secret director jail for people who technically delivered their movie but were responsible for a total nightmare behind the scenes (as opposed to the public one for people like Gareth Edwards and Josh Trank).

[drmick]

12 hours ago, Talvalin said:

 

Slightly off-topic here, but could you elaborate on that a little please? What do you mean by "found out"?

 

I went on about it in the Wonder Woman 2 thread.

 

Short version: she was to Wonder Woman 1 what Michael Bay was to the 1st 2007 Transformers. The director who got all the credit, but in reality all the good bits were somebody else's idea. So when given most of the creative control......

 

And to be honest- having a dad who is a pilot is hardly reason to give a person a whole movie about pilots! We say what she did with pilots and planes in Wonder Woman 2! She clearly hasn't got the foggiest notion about aeroplanes. Not even primary school knowledge.

[Alex W.]

I must’ve missed that scandal, is the Invisible Plane unrealistic in this one?

[Harsin]

No its just the general level of dumbness that permeates the entire script also extends to the scenes with the plane so you have stuff like a World War 1 fighter pilot immediately being able to expertly fly a modern fighter jet on the basis that all planes are the same basically, that the Smithsonian Museum keeps fully fueled unlocked fighter planes on a landing strip out back with the keys in the ignition, no idea how radar actually works and being able to fly all the way from the USA to Egypt in a fighter jet. Now normally I wouldn't cinemasins pick holes in something like that, but about 10 minutes earlier they have a scene of the same character marvelling that mankind has built planes big enough that they can have fuel tanks large enough for long flights, so its fresh in your mind.

 

Believe me it pales to the even stupider shit in that film like Wonder Woman raping a dude and this...

 

[FishyFish]

Whoever put the WW:84 trailer together* deserves most of the credit for any box-office it got I think. The trailer was ace. The actual film... 😬

 

 

* and New Order

[Kevvy Metal]

A big difference between Wonder Woman 1984 and The Last Jedi is that Wonder Woman 1984 is an actual terrible film. 

[Nick R]

33 minutes ago, FishyFish said:

Whoever put the WW:84 trailer together* deserves most of the credit for any box-office it got I think. The trailer was ace. The actual film... 😬

 

 

* and New Order

 

People often talk about the gap in quality between Man of Steel's trailer and the released movie, but I think that WW84 has an even bigger drop.

[FishyFish]

4 minutes ago, Nick R said:

 

People often talk about the gap in quality between Man of Steel's trailer and the released movie, but I think that WW84 has an even bigger drop.

 

Definitely. I don't mind Man of Steel. It might not be the best Superman Movie, but I still enjoyed it, and I really like the Hans Zimmer theme.

 

Wonder Woman 84 on the other hand actually made me feel embarrassed that I'd suggested to my wife that we watch it. I can happily watch OTT cheesy movies, but this just felt really naff.

[X_2_0]

22 hours ago, Doctor Shark said:

TLJ had some interesting ideas and was a decent swing that needed a follow up to nail  the landing but instead we got a soft reboot that largely ignored it for another super-saviour super saves everything. 

I’m interested in where people felt the story should have gone after TLJ, my main issue with the TLJ is it didn’t set up anything at all for the 3rd film apart from Rey vs/loves Kylo, all the other story threads are effectively snuffed out by the end of the film. 
 

[Captain Kelsten]

End of the Jedi, Rey not being some chosen one, rebels on the run. 

[Festoon]

8 minutes ago, Doctor Shark said:

End of the Jedi, Rey not being some chosen one, rebels on the run. 

 

Exactly, and Rey / Ren flirting, both with each other and with the 'other side'.

[drmick]

3 hours ago, Alex W. said:

I must’ve missed that scandal, is the Invisible Plane unrealistic in this one?

 

Harsin answered that attempt at trying to look smart!

[Captain Kelsten]

27 minutes ago, Festoon said:

 

Exactly, and Rey / Ren flirting, both with each other and with the 'other side'.

 

Aah, imagine how good it would have been to have the third film with Rey as Sith and Ben as Jedi...that woulda been a twist on the level of 'I am your father'. 

[X_2_0]

48 minutes ago, Doctor Shark said:

 

Aah, imagine how good it would have been to have the third film with Rey as Sith and Ben as Jedi...that woulda been a twist on the level of 'I am your father'. 

I can’t remember who it was on the forum who said last Jedi should have ended with Rey joining Kylo, but I do agree that would have been much better 

[Sarlaccfood]

On 30/11/2021 at 10:38, RubberJohnny said:

And what's interesting is if you take the artbook which mentioned the salt planet finale was originally the intro with Treverrows comments about Lukes bit in the finale being added in reshoots, you'd lose the two events which contradict the message.

 

In the original version Poe would get people wiped out attacking the Death Star laser in the real intro and then get chewed out, but the only sacrifice left in the movie would be Holdo's at the ending, which implies the original message was inverted, and she's the one who learns about the necessity of sacrifice.

 

In fact, if you'll allow me to spin a little further, then I'd argue that the final cuts message is a pretty un-Rian Johnson message. I mean Knives Out was about the wealthy, regardless of political orientation, throwing in together the moment a poor person might get a share of the wealth. And TLJ includes DJ as a "both sides" guy who throws in with the fascists at the first moment, "maybe you shouldn't fight the fascists so hard" doesn't really fit with his politics. So if I'm speculating, I'd suggest that the dropped plot about the spy or whatever was originally going to be Holdo, in a twist she's been secretly negotiating with the Empire, which is why she's pretty chill about the whole dire situation through the movie, except she eventually learns there's no compromising with space fascists, there are some battles you absolutely should fight, and saves everyone in the climax.

 

But when the feedback from Force Awakens came in that it was too close to the original and they already have a movie in the can which is literally just ESB again, Disney chops it up just to make it not the exact set-pieces in the same order and it causes a lot of knock-on changes.

Crait being at the beginning doesn’t ring a bell. Where does it say that in the art book?

 

Also sorry to be a stick in the mud but TLJ definitely wasn’t “in the can” when TFA came out. It hadn’t even begun shooting by that point. 

[IcEBuRN]

Guys. We settled this. TLJ ruined Luke, it made a mockery of fin, and turned po into a twat, then took a shit on everything set up by the previous movie. It looked amazing and had some interesting ideas, but that's why it's crap. No sane person cares about female leads and all that woke / not woke crap. 

[Talvalin]

2 hours ago, IcEBuRN said:

 No sane person cares about female leads and all that woke / not woke crap. 

 

[RubberJohnny]

18 hours ago, Doctor Shark said:

End of the Jedi, Rey not being some chosen one, rebels on the run. 

 

That's literally just where Force Awakens starts though. Like you've gone nowhere for the trilogy because there's nowhere to go.

[Captain Kelsten]

No?

 

At the start of Force Awakens Rey isn't a jedi (or doesn't realise she is, more specifically). The 'rebels' aren't rebels, they're the leading power in the galaxy until partway through the film. By the end of Force Awakens we're led to believe Rey is some prophesised chosen one, just like Anakin and Luke before her.

 

By 'end of the jedi' what I was referring to was abolishing the jedi/sith divide and having 'grey' force users who are a blurring of the two. 

[K]

I think JJ Abrams wanted Rey to be Luke's daughter didn't he? The whole nobody thing was Rian Johnson's idea.

[Harsin]

1 hour ago, Doctor Shark said:

The 'rebels' aren't rebels, they're the leading power in the galaxy until partway through the film.

 

That's wrong, the Resistance are not the Republic and are disavowed by them and operating as a small independent ragtag group specifically because the Repuiblic is ignoring the First Order and letting them do whatever they want to poor sods who live on the Outer Rim. I can understand how you wouldn't necessarily pick up on that from Abrams incredibly muddled storytelling though. The sum total involvement of the New Republic we spent three films watching the heroes fight to establish is some dorks on a balcony staring at a greensceen for 10 seconds before blowing up. Those old dudes the Green Goblin turns into spooky skeletons at the Macy Grey Parade have a bigger role in their film than the Republic does in the new trilogy.

[RubberJohnny]

2 hours ago, Doctor Shark said:

By 'end of the jedi' what I was referring to was abolishing the jedi/sith divide and having 'grey' force users who are a blurring of the two. 

 

Why is compromising with the genocidal guys who just blew up a star system and have an army of mind-controlled child soldiers a thing we're supposed to think is a good idea?

[Captain Kelsten]

Where did I say that?

 

 

[Clipper]

The Force Awakens was a great member-berries film for the 40/50somethings like me. I loved it even though it has chock full of plot holes. It wasn't as good as Star Wars or Empire Strikes back but probably ona  par with Return of the Jedi (which I was never as keen on). It was like watching an original trilogy tribute act, nothing new but hits the same story beats and feelings.

 

The Last Jedi fells like 2 movies fighting in the same script. It is both another dose of member-berries but also an interesting attempt to get Star Wars to do something slightly different and progress on from the Skywalkers. It had many horrible parts like the Casino and the slow chase but it had brilliance like the absolutely fantastically shot scenes on Crait with the salt crust being replaced by vivid red as the action unfolded. The conversion of Luke from a lost soul at the beginning to THAT confrontation with Kylo Ren was great. I have no issue with Luke at all in this film it felt like something that coul dhave happened and it is way more interesting that Luke being back and being kick ass*. I have felt tingles watching Star Wars on very few occasions, the Death star run, the Vader fight in Empire as well as the one in Jedi and that confrontation with Ren.... And yes I know some felt cheated because it wasn't real but the point was it was real.

 

The Rise of the Skywalker was utter bollocks and failed in almost everything it tried to do. It was a horrible mess. It had one or two decent scenes where it was trying to do member-berries but oh my word it was just the most awful mess of a film.

 

 

 

* I quite like the Mandalorian but I can't summon much enthusiasm for the last episode surprise appearance as a result.

[Paulando]

57 minutes ago, K said:

I think JJ Abrams wanted Rey to be Luke's daughter didn't he? The whole nobody thing was Rian Johnson's idea.

Urgh.

 

I mean, I reckon JJ did bring a lot of good stuff to the series. Remember that first trailer, with BB-8 bouncing along the sand? Absolutely magical after the dumpster fire prequels.

 

But this stuff. Shoehorning all this family shit in, and the Millennium Falcon, making the galaxy even smaller. It’s just rubbish and lazy.

[K]

2 hours ago, Doctor Shark said:

No?

 

At the start of Force Awakens Rey isn't a jedi (or doesn't realise she is, more specifically). The 'rebels' aren't rebels, they're the leading power in the galaxy until partway through the film. By the end of Force Awakens we're led to believe Rey is some prophesised chosen one, just like Anakin and Luke before her.

 

By 'end of the jedi' what I was referring to was abolishing the jedi/sith divide and having 'grey' force users who are a blurring of the two. 

 

I didn't take that from the Last Jedi. Luke wants to end the Jedi when he's at his most bitter and withdrawn, but Yoda shows him that there is some value to their teachings - as evidenced by Rey, i.e. "they are what we grow beyond". The message of the film is not to bring down the Jedi or to let the past die, but to keep the good bits and ditch the bad stuff. Which I think may possibly be a metaphor for Star Wars as well. 

[Captain Kelsten]

I took away that the way to do that was to stop with the absolutes - good jedi, bad sith - for something less stringent and more 'natural' because all jedi vs sith had done for thousands of years was cause trouble.