Rian Johnson Star Wars trilogy (still cancelled.)

[Scribblor]

I'm just disappointed because I find TLJ to be the most interesting of the new properties. I'd love to have seen more of Rian Johnson's vision of the Star Wars universe. And I'm assuming that because of the backlash against TLJ he was told to change his new trilogy to be more generic and didn't want to. I don't want Kennedy to go, I don't care one way or another about whether she's still in charge or not. She's doing her job by making sure Star Wars gets more properties she thinks people will like.

 

I'm pissed off at all the hoopleheads who didn't like TLJ (actually, not even all of them. It's the ones who were all "oh, what? WOMEN? In central roles? NOT MY STAR WARS!" and "Luke's anything other than the perfect Jedi? NOT MY STAR WARS!" that I'm pissed off at).

 

I actually thought TROS was pretty cack. Watchable, but incoherent, confused, bloated and often boring.  And having watched TFA a few times now, I don't think that's much good either. Mind, since my son's got into Star Wars I've watched the original trilogy a bunch more and that's starting to lose its shine for me. So maybe I'm just old and grumpy these days.

[Darren]

1 minute ago, Scribblor said:

I've watched the original trilogy a bunch more and that's starting to lose its shine for me.

 

[ZOK]

8 minutes ago, Scribblor said:

I'm just disappointed because I find TLJ to be the most interesting of the new properties. I'd love to have seen more of Rian Johnson's vision of the Star Wars universe. And I'm assuming that because of the backlash against TLJ he was told to change his new trilogy to be more generic and didn't want to. I don't want Kennedy to go, I don't care one way or another about whether she's still in charge or not. She's doing her job by making sure Star Wars gets more properties she thinks people will like.

 

I'm pissed off at all the hoopleheads who didn't like TLJ (actually, not even all of them. It's the ones who were all "oh, what? WOMEN? In central roles? NOT MY STAR WARS!" and "Luke's anything other than the perfect Jedi? NOT MY STAR WARS!" that I'm pissed off at).

 

I actually thought TROS was pretty cack. Watchable, but incoherent, confused, bloated and often boring.  And having watched TFA a few times now, I don't think that's much good either. Mind, since my son's got into Star Wars I've watched the original trilogy a bunch more and that's starting to lose its shine for me. So maybe I'm just old and grumpy these days.

This is spot on. I mean, I haven’t seen TROS, but if I did I’m sure I would have the same opinion.

[Alex W.]

I think it’s interesting to look at how the reaction to TLJ at some outlets has changed since TROS came out. Some podcasts I follow that did these absurdly disappointed hot takes on literally the night it came out are now singing its praises as a movie in its own right, even without the comparisons to the Abrams films.

[Bazjam]

5 hours ago, Unofficial Who said:

 

I think the critics and fans will be happy enough the Rian is out.

 

In any case Star Wars under her stewardship has appeared to find a new way that satisfies all parties (or at least most) with the TV series entries being well regarded. I mean I loved The Last Jedi. I loved The Mandalorian. People I know that hated Last Jedi also love The Mandalorian. Everyone appears to be looking forward to the next two TV projects. Win win all round.

I seem to be in the minority who found The Mandalorian distinctly average. And the fact that they’re just continuing to plough out the same old characters for the new upcoming tv shows smacks of playing it safe and treading water. I think the success of The Mandalorian could prove damaging in the long run, as we’ll just get a bunch of shows trying to emulate it, without progressing the Star Wars universe, or in any way moving things forward.

[sandman]

1 hour ago, Bazjam said:

I seem to be in the minority who found The Mandalorian distinctly average. And the fact that they’re just continuing to plough out the same old characters for the new upcoming tv shows smacks of playing it safe and treading water. I think the success of The Mandalorian could prove damaging in the long run, as we’ll just get a bunch of shows trying to emulate it, without progressing the Star Wars universe, or in any way moving things forward.

I think the Mandolorian is absolute cack. Not even finished the second season 

[Jammy]

2 hours ago, Scribblor said:

"Luke's anything other than the perfect Jedi? NOT MY STAR WARS!"

Whilst I must admit I would like to have seen Luke kick some arse in a more traditional way, anyone surprised that he turned out to be quite flawed can’t have been following the family’s track record too closely.

[probotector]

3 hours ago, Scribblor said:

I'm just disappointed because I find TLJ to be the most interesting of the new properties. I'd love to have seen more of Rian Johnson's vision of the Star Wars universe. And I'm assuming that because of the backlash against TLJ he was told to change his new trilogy to be more generic and didn't want to. I don't want Kennedy to go, I don't care one way or another about whether she's still in charge or not. She's doing her job by making sure Star Wars gets more properties she thinks people will like.

 

I'm pissed off at all the hoopleheads who didn't like TLJ (actually, not even all of them. It's the ones who were all "oh, what? WOMEN? In central roles? NOT MY STAR WARS!" and "Luke's anything other than the perfect Jedi? NOT MY STAR WARS!" that I'm pissed off at).

 

I actually thought TROS was pretty cack. Watchable, but incoherent, confused, bloated and often boring.  And having watched TFA a few times now, I don't think that's much good either. Mind, since my son's got into Star Wars I've watched the original trilogy a bunch more and that's starting to lose its shine for me. So maybe I'm just old and grumpy these days.

Sorry but even Mark Hamill has pretty much said The Last Jedi was trash.

 

Rian fucked up Starwars so hard we never got to the see the real 3rd part from Trevorrow that genuinely sounded like a great Star Wars movie.

 

Instead we got the Rise of Skywalker which was trash but not as bad as TLJ.

 

I started getting Matrix Reloaded vibes as soon as we saw Bombers in space and Huxley getting a space crank call. 

[BitterToad]

I think I'm going to do a 180 in my thinking about all of this. Rather than getting all "stop getting Bond wrong" about people not understanding how brilliant The Last Jedi was, I will simply laugh at the fact a load of morons had Star Wars ruined for them by it. This seems healthier to me. 

[Festoon]

4 hours ago, Scribblor said:

I'm just disappointed because I find TLJ to be the most interesting of the new properties. I'd love to have seen more of Rian Johnson's vision of the Star Wars universe. And I'm assuming that because of the backlash against TLJ he was told to change his new trilogy to be more generic and didn't want to. I don't want Kennedy to go, I don't care one way or another about whether she's still in charge or not. She's doing her job by making sure Star Wars gets more properties she thinks people will like.

 

I'm pissed off at all the hoopleheads who didn't like TLJ (actually, not even all of them. It's the ones who were all "oh, what? WOMEN? In central roles? NOT MY STAR WARS!" and "Luke's anything other than the perfect Jedi? NOT MY STAR WARS!" that I'm pissed off at).

 

I actually thought TROS was pretty cack. Watchable, but incoherent, confused, bloated and often boring.  And having watched TFA a few times now, I don't think that's much good either. Mind, since my son's got into Star Wars I've watched the original trilogy a bunch more and that's starting to lose its shine for me. So maybe I'm just old and grumpy these days.

 

No, you're correct, TFA is lame and TROS is shit.

[Paulando]

The Rise of Skywalker was incredibly shit. Still not prequels-bad, as it was a fairly well put together movie at least (i.e. not 2 hours of people walking down CGI corridors).

 

The worst crime was just not letting one director/writer/whatever be the guiding force for the entire trilogy, and handing it back and forth with no plan. The whole thing reeks of making it up as they go along, which is why the final entry is such a mess. The Last Jedi is easily the best in the series, although TFA isn’t without its moments (Falcon Flies Again is one of the best sequences in the entire saga tbh).

[ZOK]

4 hours ago, Bazjam said:

I seem to be in the minority who found The Mandalorian distinctly average. And the fact that they’re just continuing to plough out the same old characters for the new upcoming tv shows smacks of playing it safe and treading water. I think the success of The Mandalorian could prove damaging in the long run, as we’ll just get a bunch of shows trying to emulate it, without progressing the Star Wars universe, or in any way moving things forward.

The Mandalorian is very average, it’s basically a modern Xena Warrior Princess.

 

Of course, that doesn’t mean it’s not good fun!

[Scribblor]

1 hour ago, probotector said:

Sorry but even Mark Hamill has pretty much said The Last Jedi was trash.

 

Rian fucked up Starwars so hard we never got to the see the real 3rd part from Trevorrow that genuinely sounded like a great Star Wars movie.

 

Instead we got the Rise of Skywalker which was trash but not as bad as TLJ.

 

I started getting Matrix Reloaded vibes as soon as we saw Bombers in space and Huxley getting a space crank call. 

Hamill saying it doesn't make it true. And it can't be true anyway, because opinions are subjective.

 

I think TLJ was the best film in the trilogy.

 

For me, it's the only one with mystery, intriguing plot points, meaningful character development and an actual message (eat the rich!) Yes, the casino bit was too long, but at least it has something to say. And it's the best looking film of the three, as well.

 

But it's fine if you and Mark Hamill and legions of fans who just wanted remakes of the original trilogy disagree. Doesn't change my opinion.

[probotector]

Meaningful character development?

 

1. They turned Finn into a no body joke character and undid his character development from the first film and turned him into a coward again.

 

2. They turned the pilot dude into an idiot. He fucked up every plan, got countless rebels killed, lost the fleet and actively spent the whole film being being annoying. Why he didn’t get executed for this idiocy, I’ll never know.

 

3. Leia Poppins 

 

4. Turned Luke into I don’t know what.

 

5. “Everyone can be force users” - luckily broom boy was quietly forgotten. 
 

Film is just awful.

 

Not to mention it’s just a more boring episode of Battlestar Galactica stretched out for 2.5hrs with a joke side story in a casino.

 

[Alex W.]

Hamill didn’t say the movie was bad, he said that the movie’s version of Luke didn’t line up with who he thought the character was, and then when the movie came out he said it was good and he respected the choice they’d made.

[kensei]

It was very, very clear Hamill did not agree with any of the character choices made in TLJ.  He's a pro though and his performance is one of the better things about the film.

 

Regardless of what a few film podcasts say, just saying "The Last Jedi" remains a remarkably fast way to start an argument.

 

Like it less the more I think about it. But would have been very interested in a Rian Johnson trilogy divorced from anyone else's movies.

[kensei]

2 hours ago, probotector said:

Not to mention it’s just a more boring episode of Battlestar Galactica stretched out for 2.5hrs with a joke side story in a casino.

 

 

Oh god, it is just a shit version of 33. I'll never be able to see it as anything else.

[probotector]

That was my main conclusion.

 

The fact that during the “pursuit”, people were coming and going and having adventures was just dumb.

 

There was little of no sense of urgency while 33 is an amazingly tense experience. 

[footle]

6 hours ago, probotector said:

Meaningful character development?

 

1. They turned Finn into a no body joke character and undid his character development from the first film and turned him into a coward again.

 

2. They turned the pilot dude into an idiot. He fucked up every plan, got countless rebels killed, lost the fleet and actively spent the whole film being being annoying. Why he didn’t get executed for this idiocy, I’ll never know.

 

3. Leia Poppins 

 

4. Turned Luke into I don’t know what.

 

5. “Everyone can be force users” - luckily broom boy was quietly forgotten. 
 

Film is just awful.

 

Not to mention it’s just a more boring episode of Battlestar Galactica stretched out for 2.5hrs with a joke side story in a casino.

 

the pilot dude was an idiot: disrespected the chain of command, and people who’ve been there, done that, won the wars simply because he was male.

 

the idea of the force being “special” had been taken away in the prequels. There’s no reason why there’s only a few force users in the universe, given how many Jedi and Sith there used to be.
 

Similarly there’s no reason why the force is a male only thing, or why Leia couldn’t have latent powers. Perhaps she’s been unconsciously using them to lead the rebellion/republic for donkeys years. Perhaps all charismatic leaders do in the Star Wars universe.

 

luke was fine.
 

you can have Finn.

[Scribblor]

Character development isn't always positive.

[K]

Mark Hamill actually went on the record to say that he didn't think the Last Jedi was a good film:

 

 

[Isaac]

As someone who doesn't really have an emotional connection to Star Wars, the middle one of the new ones was the only one I saw at the cinema that actually stands up as a good film, rather than a good Star Wars film.

 

It is also the only one that bothers having something to say outside of the plot that is in any way interesting.

 

The whole 'any one can be a jedi' thing is infinitely more interesting than feudal bloodlines.

 

The third one felt like a fan project with a big budget. It was turgid and boring.

[kensei]

2 hours ago, K said:

Mark Hamill actually went on the record to say that he didn't think the Last Jedi was a good film:

 

 

 

Hamill is the nicest man on the internet. I have no doubt the regrets saying anything that might have hurt Rian Johnson. But his feelings the time were obvious.

 

And once again the only options were not "what had been done before" and "what we got in The Last Jedi".

 

6 hours ago, footle said:

the idea of the force being “special” had been taken away in the prequels. There’s no reason why there’s only a few force users in the universe, given how many Jedi and Sith there used to be.

 

People really do not appreciate "Galaxy" scale. In fairness, Star Wars does not appreciate Galaxy scale.

 

If you add up all the Jedi and Sith seen on screen, even those in the background and all the force users who are not Jedi or Sith, it would be a fraction of a fraction of a percent of the Earth's population. On a Galactic scale it's zero.

 

Also it's never been a male thing since at least Return of the Jedi. Prequel era had a ton of female Jedi, including a key and well loved character in the main TV series. Bizarre point.

 

Anyway, The Last Jedi was bad on its own terms. Tarkin was not a figure of fun. The Empire was oppressive and scary. Yet the Last Jedi decides to undercut it's replace with incredibly misplaced humour. Canto Blight is boring and dire. It ultimately pulls every punch. A brave film ends with Rey taking Kylo's hand at the end. 

 

1 hour ago, Isaac said:

The whole 'any one can be a jedi' thing is infinitely more interesting than feudal bloodlines.

 

Who is Obi Wan's da?

This was a point that was never a thing. Ironically it pushed TROS to do this even worse after the backlash.

[K]

I think what Mark Hamill meant to say was that he shares my views on the Last Jedi.

[kensei]

30 minutes ago, K said:

I think what Mark Hamill meant to say was that he shares my views on the Last Jedi.

 

Exactly. 

[Kevvy Metal]

[RubberJohnny]

The little mutiny plot is the worst bit of TLJ, like I get the casino planet was a drag, but it was at least an attempt to go somewhere new and do something a bit different.

 

Poe's thing just doesn't work - having a plot where someone needs to learn some responsibility isn't a bad idea, but the film as written just outright contradicts its own lesson multiple times, the opening literally says the Dreadnought will kill their whole fleet if it's not destroyed, the entire mutiny stuff on the ship runs on characters being idiots and not talking to each other, and then his overall message - that you shouldn't sacrifice your life for something, is sandwiched 20 minutes after Holdo sacrificing her life to save everyone, and 20 minutes before Luke sacrifices his life to save everyone, which the film explicitly tells us is the most important thing and changes everything. Also it's like half the movie.

[RubberJohnny]

And what's interesting is if you take the artbook which mentioned the salt planet finale was originally the intro with Treverrows comments about Lukes bit in the finale being added in reshoots, you'd lose the two events which contradict the message.

 

In the original version Poe would get people wiped out attacking the Death Star laser in the real intro and then get chewed out, but the only sacrifice left in the movie would be Holdo's at the ending, which implies the original message was inverted, and she's the one who learns about the necessity of sacrifice.

 

In fact, if you'll allow me to spin a little further, then I'd argue that the final cuts message is a pretty un-Rian Johnson message. I mean Knives Out was about the wealthy, regardless of political orientation, throwing in together the moment a poor person might get a share of the wealth. And TLJ includes DJ as a "both sides" guy who throws in with the fascists at the first moment, "maybe you shouldn't fight the fascists so hard" doesn't really fit with his politics. So if I'm speculating, I'd suggest that the dropped plot about the spy or whatever was originally going to be Holdo, in a twist she's been secretly negotiating with the Empire, which is why she's pretty chill about the whole dire situation through the movie, except she eventually learns there's no compromising with space fascists, there are some battles you absolutely should fight, and saves everyone in the climax.

 

But when the feedback from Force Awakens came in that it was too close to the original and they already have a movie in the can which is literally just ESB again, Disney chops it up just to make it not the exact set-pieces in the same order and it causes a lot of knock-on changes.

[Captain Kelsten]

TLJ had some interesting ideas and was a decent swing that needed a follow up to nail  the landing but instead we got a soft reboot that largely ignored it for another super-saviour super saves everything. 

[Talvalin]

On 22/11/2021 at 00:23, drmick said:

Patty Jenkins movie has also been effectively canned. I think with Wonder Woman 2 she has been found out.

 

Slightly off-topic here, but could you elaborate on that a little please? What do you mean by "found out"?