Rian Johnson Star Wars trilogy (still cancelled.)

[Alex W.]

I kind of assumed that this was over when he went off to do a trilogy of southern private detective movies. Did Disney think that the best way of handling the bad news was to just let it fade from memory?

[Festoon]

6 hours ago, K said:

I liked the Force Awakens, but that bit where the Starkiller base blows up a planet has to be one of the vaguest bits of storytelling I've ever seen in a major film, second only to the bit later on in the same film where they can't get the last part of the map to Luke because R2D2 is asleep. It doesn't matter really, because JJ Abrams films are more about what feels emotionally right for a scene rather than what makes logical sense, but I would like to hear him explain what he thinks actually happens in those bits.

 

He's a dipshit. He has no thoughts.

[Alex W.]

 

[Sarlaccfood]

Well Kathleen Kennedy has just been renewed for 3 more years. 
 

As if thousands of incels suddenly cried out on their toxic YouTube channels all at once….

[Kevvy Metal]

On 16/11/2021 at 15:42, K said:

I liked the Force Awakens, but that bit where the Starkiller base blows up a planet has to be one of the vaguest bits of storytelling I've ever seen in a major film, second only to the bit later on in the same film where they can't get the last part of the map to Luke because R2D2 is asleep. It doesn't matter really, because JJ Abrams films are more about what feels emotionally right for a scene rather than what makes logical sense, but I would like to hear him explain what he thinks actually happens in those bits.

 

Have people not noticed that the entire Star Wars Saga is full of things that make little logical sense?

Robot's that belong to the sister of the brother that they magic wander straight to while she's being chased by her evil dad. 

It's a space opera matinee that's as pulpy and fantastical as it gets, and all the better for it. 

[Alex W.]

I suppose the difference is that the original trilogy makes sense until you sit down and read about it on the internet, and the Abrams movies don't make sense until you sit down and read about it on the internet.

[RubberJohnny]

The prequels never made sense either.

[Kevvy Metal]

19 hours ago, Alex W. said:

I suppose the difference is that the original trilogy makes sense until you sit down and read about it on the internet, and the Abrams movies don't make sense until you sit down and read about it on the internet.

Thats not even remotely true, as I managed to watched the Sequel Trilogy and understand it without resorting to referring to the Internet. But I guess YMMV

[yakumo]

24 minutes ago, RubberJohnny said:

The prequels never made sense either.

 

Yeah Kid Anakin hitting on Padme is weird and creepy.

[K]

On 20/11/2021 at 13:02, Kevvy Metal said:

Thats not even remotely true, as I managed to watched the Sequel Trilogy and understand it without resorting to referring to the Internet. But I guess YMMV

OK then, what does happen with R2-D2 at the end of the Force Awakens? Why does he suddenly wake up at the end and hand over the bit of the map they need? I’ve seen it several times, and I don’t quite understand why he’s been shut down or what prompts him to return to life. 

 

Some bits of the older films don’t make sense, but that’s usually because one of the prequels has retroactively and clumsily changed something. I could always understand why something was happening on a scene by scene basis. 

[Kevvy Metal]

10 minutes ago, K said:

OK then, what does happen with R2-D2 at the end of the Force Awakens? Why does he suddenly wake up at the end and hand over the bit of the map they need? I’ve seen it several times, and I don’t quite understand why he’s been shut down or what prompts him to return to life. 

 

Some bits of the older films don’t make sense, but that’s usually because one of the prequels has retroactively and clumsily changed something. I could always understand why something was happening on a scene by scene basis. 

He’s shut down due to his master bailing and the presence of the new hero’s prompts him to come out of “sleep mode” at just the right time! 
Him over hearing people talk about Luke or BB8’s presence? Something prompts him to boot up. 
my point is that it doesn’t matter! That’s what happens to give the character a grander entrance. I don’t care what exact thing prompted it and I don’t think it matters. 

[K]

1 minute ago, Kevvy Metal said:

He’s shut down due to his master bailing and the presence of the new hero’s prompts him to come out of “sleep mode” at just the right time! 
Him over hearing people talk about Luke or BB8’s presence? Something prompts him to boot up. 
my point is that it doesn’t matter! That’s what happens to give the character a grander entrance. I don’t care what exact thing prompted it and I don’t think it matters. 

I don’t think it matters in the grand scheme of things, but it feels a bit messy. Unless we’re talking about a David Lynch film or something where it’s explicitly meant to be a mystery, you should be able to say why something happens in a film. Especially in what is essentially a kids film. 
 

That bit of the film feels like it’s a loose end from previous versions of the story, where the explanation fell off between drafts and they didn’t have the time to address it. 

[drmick]

Patty Jenkins movie has also been effectively canned. I think with Wonder Woman 2 she has been found out.

[Kevvy Metal]

21 minutes ago, K said:

I don’t think it matters in the grand scheme of things, but it feels a bit messy. Unless we’re talking about a David Lynch film or something where it’s explicitly meant to be a mystery, you should be able to say why something happens in a film. Especially in what is essentially a kids film. 
 

That bit of the film feels like it’s a loose end from previous versions of the story, where the explanation fell off between drafts and they didn’t have the time to address it. 

I think it really, really doesn’t matter. The point of it is that R2 thought everything was hopeless, so had shut down… and the presence and hope found in the new hero’s wakes him up and he gets a grandiose hero moment and helps solve the problem and save the day. 
Droids are presented in the Star Wars universe as being more like people, actually living characters rather than actual cold robots, so this reawakening from a slumber due to the presence of hope works for me, rather than some superfluous detail included like showing some reboot sequence or password prompt or something. 

[Alex W.]

I don't think the fact that he's a droid is what makes that bit seem contrived, not that it's a terribly significant problem in terms of that movie's storytelling.

 

Okay, so: why does he fall asleep? I guess because he has the 90% of the map showing where Luke isn't, and probably someone read an earlier draft and complained that they could've obviously just look in the area represented by the missing piece, so they had to give him a sleepy time. So why does he have 90% of the map, and not 100%, or 0%? In fact, why is he there at all, instead of just having everyone chasing after 100% of the map? I just can't fathom what this plot point was meant to serve.

 

And there's loads of that across the two Abrams movies. Chewie is dead for about five minutes, then he's not. Somehow, Palpatine returned. There's a dagger which is an arrow to a box which is a map to place and it was all carefully hidden except it was also Palpatine's plan all along?

 

These aren't "plot holes" in the YouTube/post-2010 IMDB Goofs Page sense of the word, or anything like that, they're just really weird, wooly writing of the type that seems to have typified Abrams' film output. You get the feeling that when they were writing his films they entirely fixated on breaking the literal A-B-C of the story without much of a sense of what it was supposed to do, and so long as it was something that made literal, causal sense on the page, it was OK.

[Treble]

30 minutes ago, Alex W. said:

I don't think the fact that he's a droid is what makes that bit seem contrived, not that it's a terribly significant problem in terms of that movie's storytelling.

 

Okay, so: why does he fall asleep? I guess because he has the 90% of the map showing where Luke isn't, and probably someone read an earlier draft and complained that they could've obviously just look in the area represented by the missing piece, so they had to give him a sleepy time. So why does he have 90% of the map, and not 100%, or 0%? In fact, why is he there at all, instead of just having everyone chasing after 100% of the map? I just can't fathom what this plot point was meant to serve.

 

And there's loads of that across the two Abrams movies. Chewie is dead for about five minutes, then he's not. Somehow, Palpatine returned. There's a dagger which is an arrow to a box which is a map to place and it was all carefully hidden except it was also Palpatine's plan all along?

 

These aren't "plot holes" in the YouTube/post-2010 IMDB Goofs Page sense of the word, or anything like that, they're just really weird, wooly writing of the type that seems to have typified Abrams' film output. You get the feeling that when they were writing his films they entirely fixated on breaking the literal A-B-C of the story without much of a sense of what it was supposed to do, and so long as it was something that made literal, causal sense on the page, it was OK.

 

Spot-on. It's just another case of a white man failing upwards. You can direct? Have a TV show. You can manage a budget? Be a producer. You can produce? Be the show runner! You're a showrunner? Have this movie!! You've directed a movie and wrote a show outline?! Write the entire movie and direct it!!! Your last two movies were shit? Doesn't matter, you're an establishment white dude!

 

Here, have the Star Wars franchise. 

[Alex W.]

I don’t know about that, Abrams can sell a moment like few others in blockbuster cinema, and he actually gets the movies done and delivered without too much trouble. I can see why he keeps getting work.

[Treble]

 

8 minutes ago, Alex W. said:

I don’t know about that, Abrams can sell a moment like few others in blockbuster cinema, and he actually gets the movies done and delivered without too much trouble. I can see why he keeps getting work.

 

It's the writing it and producing it (essentially, entire creative control) that's the issue rather than his directing. 

[Kevvy Metal]

1 hour ago, Alex W. said:

I don't think the fact that he's a droid is what makes that bit seem contrived, not that it's a terribly significant problem in terms of that movie's storytelling.

 

Okay, so: why does he fall asleep? I guess because he has the 90% of the map showing where Luke isn't, and probably someone read an earlier draft and complained that they could've obviously just look in the area represented by the missing piece, so they had to give him a sleepy time. So why does he have 90% of the map, and not 100%, or 0%? In fact, why is he there at all, instead of just having everyone chasing after 100% of the map? I just can't fathom what this plot point was meant to serve.

 

And there's loads of that across the two Abrams movies. Chewie is dead for about five minutes, then he's not. Somehow, Palpatine returned. There's a dagger which is an arrow to a box which is a map to place and it was all carefully hidden except it was also Palpatine's plan all along?

 

These aren't "plot holes" in the YouTube/post-2010 IMDB Goofs Page sense of the word, or anything like that, they're just really weird, wooly writing of the type that seems to have typified Abrams' film output. You get the feeling that when they were writing his films they entirely fixated on breaking the literal A-B-C of the story without much of a sense of what it was supposed to do, and so long as it was something that made literal, causal sense on the page, it was OK.

He falls asleep because Luke abandoned him, as then built upon in the next film. 
He has all of the map, from the galactic archives but he’s basically filling in what BB-8 has in the context of it being a map to Luke’s whereabouts. 

[SeanR]

A dagger with a map to the location of the box that leads to Exidor, a map that only exists BECAUSE the Death Star was destroyed and fell into that particular shape. 
 

so it had to be created AFTERWARDS.

 

[Sexton Hardcastle]

An ancient dagger. 

[Kevvy Metal]

51 minutes ago, Sexton Hardcastle said:

An ancient dagger. 

They don’t call it an ancient dagger in the film, at all. This is some weird Mandela effect thing. 

[Dirty Harry Potter]

1 hour ago, Sexton Hardcastle said:

An ancient dagger. 

That’s less than 30 years old. 

 

Genius. 
 

 

[Sexton Hardcastle]

Well at least it was imbued with the power to let the holder see the ruins of Death Star 2 when they stood right in front of the ruins of Death Star 2. 

[Festoon]

Which was in the sea, yet they made a dagger that lined up perfectly with it.

 

Because JJ Abrams liked those bits in Indy films.

[Darwock]

That particular one was lifted from The Goonies.

[Unofficial Who]

On 17/11/2021 at 13:07, Sarlaccfood said:

Well Kathleen Kennedy has just been renewed for 3 more years. 
 

As if thousands of incels suddenly cried out on their toxic YouTube channels all at once….

 

I think the critics and fans will be happy enough the Rian is out.

 

In any case Star Wars under her stewardship has appeared to find a new way that satisfies all parties (or at least most) with the TV series entries being well regarded. I mean I loved The Last Jedi. I loved The Mandalorian. People I know that hated Last Jedi also love The Mandalorian. Everyone appears to be looking forward to the next two TV projects. Win win all round.

[BitterToad]

6 minutes ago, Unofficial Who said:

 

I think the critics and fans will be happy enough the Rian is out.

 

In any case Star Wars under her stewardship has appeared to find a new way that satisfies all parties (or at least most) with the TV series entries being well regarded. I mean I loved The Last Jedi. I loved The Mandalorian. People I know that hated Last Jedi also love The Mandalorian. Everyone appears to be looking forward to the next two TV projects. Win win all round.

Just my obligatory response to you doing this every time, a lot of fans really liked Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi. 

[Unofficial Who]

18 minutes ago, BitterToad said:

Just my obligatory response to you doing this every time, a lot of fans really liked Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi. 

 

I loved it too but I read and heard so many "true fans" saying how shit it was that I just haven't watched the last instalment.

 

It's taken the Mandalorian and Clone Wars (at my partner's insistence) to start watching anything in the franchise again.

 

I can't get with the whole "good. Now sack Kathleen Kennedy and put Filoni and Favreau in charge" brigade. If anything a good leader will learn from what doesn't work and lean into what does which is what seems to be happening right now and Filoni and Favreau appear to be in the best place right now to keep running with it. They've been promoted so they can oversea several shows at once but now I'm moving into more general SW chat. 

[Darren]

You really should watch TROS @Unofficial Who - take it from a fellow TLJ lover. Yes it's very daft and frantic and everything else but most importantly it finishes off the best part of TLJ (the Rey & Ben (& Luke (& Leia (& Han))) storyline) really nicely, especially given that they had to do Leia's bits with whatever offcuts they could find.

 

I've been a "true fan" since April 1978 which is when the original film arrived at my local cinema (remember those days? Kids don't know they're born etc.) and I don't think I've ever called for Kathleen Kennedy to be sacked so my credentials on this are impeccable.