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kiroquai

Formula One - 2019 Season

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Credit to Stroll for his performace. I slag him off every chance I get but he put in a good performance today.

 

Back to the awful trophies as well, that looks awful.

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I've not seen this, only read it but to me he should be dinged for keeping a place by going off track.  I'm actually kinda with him on the rejoining but clearly he only kept the place by doing so and should have been told to swap.

 

But this is all before seeing video.

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2 minutes ago, Dudley said:

I've not seen this, only read it but to me he should be dinged for keeping a place by going off track.  I'm actually kinda with him on the rejoining but clearly he only kept the place by doing so and should have been told to swap.

 

But this is all before seeing video.

 

I don’t think he was in danger if he hadn’t gone off the track, but once he had he only kept the place because he rejoined the track in a manner which gave Lewis the option of “brake or crash”. The question is whether or not “I wasn’t in control of the car as it rejoined” is a valid excuse. The stewards decided not.

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3 minutes ago, MrPogo said:

 

I don’t think he was in danger if he hadn’t gone off the track, but once he had he only kept the place because he rejoined the track in a manner which gave Lewis the option of “brake or crash”. The question is whether or not “I wasn’t in control of the car as it rejoined” is a valid excuse. The stewards decided not.

 

Surely it’s a yellow flag situation, car off the track. Pretty sure the rules state ‘be prepared to slow down’ or as you say, brake (or crash)

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Vettel made the mistake and was punished for it, If he didn’t crack again under pressure from Hamilton the stewards wouldn’t have a decision to make.

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28 minutes ago, Freeman said:

 

Surely it’s a yellow flag situation, car off the track. Pretty sure the rules state ‘be prepared to slow down’ or as you say, brake (or crash)

Instaflag :lol:

 

I do feel for Seb but he was forced into another mistake. 

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31 minutes ago, Freeman said:

Just finished watching.

 

Any day the stewards decide who wins is a bad day.

 

What a disgrace to the sport.

 

Bit harsh on Vettel, he always cracks under pressure so to be expected.

 

Its obv the correct choice, he went off track and kept his foot in, it was dangerous and he got the minimum penalty.

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The level of misplaced outrage on social media is hilarious. All those Vettel fans irate with rage that their world champion in waiting has has the race win, championship and greatest living racing driver everer in all of history ever award stolen from them is just so amusing. 

 

He cocked up, floundered around in the middle of the track, blocked a driver behind him and got pinged for being a bit rubbish, in a long career of being a bit rubbish under pressure. 

 

At the end of the day he's going to loose the championship by more than the seven points he "lost" today. 

 

And then throwing a hissy fit at the end of the race. Slamming doors and spitting his dummy out. Hahahahaha hahaha! "my car, which isn't here because I'm a petulant child, should have the number one board and I'm going to put that right" what a complete arse. 

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It should be pointed out that Max got the same penalty when he understeered back onto the track and almost hit Kimi in Japan last year.

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Sidewaysbob said:

The level of misplaced outrage on social media is hilarious. All those Vettel fans irate with rage that their world champion in waiting has has the race win, championship and greatest living racing driver everer in all of history ever award stolen from them is just so amusing. 

 

He cocked up, floundered around in the middle of the track, blocked a driver behind him and got pinged for being a bit rubbish, in a long career of being a bit rubbish under pressure. 

 

At the end of the day he's going to loose the championship by more than the seven points he "lost" today. 

 

And then throwing a hissy fit at the end of the race. Slamming doors and spitting his dummy out. Hahahahaha hahaha! "my car, which isn't here because I'm a petulant child, should have the number one board and I'm going to put that right" what a complete arse. 

 

Dunno Bob, don’t think I can agree with you on this one. There is a lot of outrage, but a lot of it is also coming from people like Mark Webber, Mario Andretti etc. Proper racers. IndyCar drivers, ex F1 drivers, NASCAR... whatever kind of motorsport, it seems everyone has an opinion and I’m yet to see one that thinks it was a fair penalty.

 

He didn’t really flounder in the middle of the track; he pretty much skated right across that grass and skidded back onto the track within a couple of seconds. He did pretty well not to bin the car and take himself and Lewis out and given how shit the mirrors are on those things there’s no way he’d have known where Lewis was. It was a mistake, sure, but they were racing each other pretty hard at the time.

 

I think the main frustration being vented right now is that we finally got something approximating a good race for the lead for the first time in... well, forever, and it got taken away. In the old days (I hate using that phrase) it would have been a case of ‘you lucky bugger’ and they’d have just got on with it. Now any time something moderately interesting happens drivers know they can radio the team and get them to go running to the stewards. See also Grosjean’s hilarious complaint at being passed by Perez in today’s race.

 

Didn’t mind Seb’s reaction either. He’d just been in a pretty intense race so his adrenaline was still flowing, and hey - we’re always complaining that drivers these days tow the PR line and do/say nothing of any interest whatsoever. It certainly got the crowd going!

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The thing for me is, Lewis was on his line around the whole corner. If he’d come off the racing line to purposefully squeeze Seb as he came back on, then it’s more of a case of, should you penalise a driving mistake that ends you up in a position you can’t control the car? Most likely still yes if you’re affecting another driver; you can get away with it if you’re on an area of the track alone. 

 

However, Vettel didn’t seem to have enough control of the car when back on the tarmac, and did career in front of Lewis. If he’d been able to stay on the inside, then I think calling it an unsafe entry would have been way too unfair. 

 

You can’t cry “what am I meant to do” when the answer is “don’t make the mistake”. But should the penalty be 5 seconds in that instance? Depends whether you count F1 as a contact sport I guess.

Everything I’ve seen since I’ve started watching suggests that’s not the case at all. Therefore, any type of driving that threatens a vehicle inherits the penalty regardless of driver etc. If it ticks the boxes, it has to stand. It sucked from a race point of view compared to it happening bottom of the grid, but *shrug*

 

Gutted for him though. And fucks sake Norris. Gutted for him too. 

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It’s a tough one, if Lewis ends up second it would probably feel harsh on him because he was reeling Vettel in and the overtake looked inevitable until he had to avoid a crash because of a mistake made by the guy he was pushing.  But it’s never good when the result is decided by the stewards and unless it’s clear that he did deliberately block him I don’t think you can start handing out penalties.  It also prevented what could have been a great battle in the last few laps for the win if Hamilton had to really try to pass him.

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In different circumstances - wet track, mechanical issue or Hamilton pushing him off the track to any degree - “I had no control as I rejoined” would have been a valid excuse, but a pure error on his part in  dry conditions meant, as NevixRed said, the answer to what else he could have done is not tried to take the corner too fast and cocked up in the first place.

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7 hours ago, Bob Sacamano said:

It’s a tough one, if Lewis ends up second it would probably feel harsh on him because he was reeling Vettel in and the overtake looked inevitable until he had to avoid a crash because of a mistake made by the guy he was pushing.  But it’s never good when the result is decided by the stewards and unless it’s clear that he did deliberately block him I don’t think you can start handing out penalties.  It also prevented what could have been a great battle in the last few laps for the win if Hamilton had to really try to pass him.

 

Tbf, it was the smallest penalty they could have awarded, wasn’t it?

 

6 hours ago, Bacon Horsemeat said:

It won't ultimately matter, Hamilton will be way more than 7 points ahead of him by the end of the year

 

There’s something to be said for Vettel’s psyche though, isn’t there? Seems susceptible to going downhill after negative episodes. 

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The incident is a difficult one but I'm inclined to agree with the penalty (although perhaps we should have smaller penalties than 5 seconds. 

 

Seb's excuse is that he made a mistake, came back on to the track and could not control his car. Hamilton had to apply the brakes in order to avoid a collision. The result of the penalty is harsh but the incident was entirely of Sebs own making and he clearly blocked what would have been a certain pass by Hamilton. If he had intentionally tried to put an overtaking Hamilton into the wall that would also likely have a penalty applied, I'm not sure that simply because it happened because he had no control of his car, after making a mistake, that this is really a valid get out of free car. 

 

Firstly don't make the mistake, secondly have control of your car when racing. Without the Penalty Hamilton would be the one who was penalised and Vettel would have been rewarded as a result of his mistake and poor driving. Not sure that would have been a just result either. 

 

In football, if a defender makes a mistake and takes down a player trying to score a goal in the box that's a penalty awarded so it is not like this is a unique punishment to F1. 

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11 hours ago, kiroquai said:

There’s an easy way to make this more black-and-white, of course. A way to stop cars losing control like that and take away any grey area.

 

That’s to do the ever-popular thing and replace the grass with tarmac.

 

that actually ADDS grey area.

 

Unless they paint it.

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In the old days of course, that would be gravel and he'd be out.

 

Penalising him for the rejoin rather than for not addressing the advantage gained feels like the wrong move and I wonder if there would have been less outrage for that.

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https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/143996/vettel-steering-inputs-key-to-fia-penalty-decision

 

It also seems that key to the penalty was Vettels decision to release the wheel, I.E, to stop trying to avoid coming back on to the racing line in an unsafe manner. 

 

He skipped the corner, reentered the track, knew Hamilton was about to overtake and did not try to prevent his car from blocking Hamilton is seemingly the takeaway of the Stewards. 

 

The key thing for me is that he skipped the corner and then blocked Hamilton from overtaking. You should not be able to leave the track and then also block the car behind you from what would have been a certain overtake. 

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21 minutes ago, McCoy said:

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/143996/vettel-steering-inputs-key-to-fia-penalty-decision

 

It also seems that key to the penalty was Vettels decision to release the wheel, I.E, to stop trying to avoid coming back on to the racing line in an unsafe manner. 

 

He skipped the corner, reentered the track, knew Hamilton was about to overtake and did not try to prevent his car from blocking Hamilton is seemingly the takeaway of the Stewards. 

 

The key thing for me is that he skipped the corner and then blocked Hamilton from overtaking. You should not be able to leave the track and then also block the car behind you from what would have been a certain overtake. 

 

Uhhh roh, so now we are in the realms of the punishment being to lenient.

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