Star Wars: Andor

[Alex W.]

I love that this season is a bunch of these different little stories unfolding over half a season or a whole one or just an episode or two, and actually closing. It’s really good ongoing series writing: serialised but not exclusively serial.

 

The episode where Cass first gets sent to an Amazon warehouse is just incredibly pointed TV about fascism, and capitalism, and the modern workforce, a great place to put that character, and an incredible insight in to how something like the Empire ticks.

[Chewylegs]

On 12/02/2023 at 15:09, tejinashi said:

Finally caught up with this. Uhh, blimey, was pretty much a perfect adult star wars. Lots to work with for a season 2 too.

 

Now to read the thread.

That about sums it up for me too.  Just finished it tonight, it was bloody great!  Don't think I've got a bad word to say about it.

[Alex W.]

Quick question for Nobody’s Listening before I dive back in:

 

Spoiler

So a guy got “released” back in to a different floor, and when word spread that whole floor got killed. And there’s a bunch of ways that this could give urgency to their escape but I think I’m maybe meant to infer one of these in particular?

It wasn’t a mistake and:

 

1) They were never actually releasing people but somehow the word didn’t spread.

2) They’ve stopped actually releasing people because of the new directive.

 

So the urgency is from the fact that they’re never actually going to be released. Presumably the Empire isn’t counting on hundreds of de-released convicts keeping quiet.

Or it was a mistake and:

 

3) Eventually the guards are going to realise that their floor knows about the error and they’ll all get killed.

 

So the urgency is from the fact that they’re going to get knocked off before long.

 

[Mogster]

1 minute ago, Alex W. said:

Quick question for Nobody’s Listening before I dive back in:

 

  Hide contents

So a guy got “released” back in to a different floor, and when word spread that whole floor got killed. And there’s a bunch of ways that this could give urgency to their escape but I think I’m maybe meant to infer one of these in particular?

It wasn’t a mistake and:

 

1) They were never actually releasing people but somehow the word didn’t spread.

2) They’ve stopped actually releasing people because of the new directive.

 

So the urgency is from the fact that they’re never actually going to be released. Presumably the Empire isn’t counting on hundreds of de-released convicts keeping quiet.

Or it was a mistake and:

 

3) Eventually the guards are going to realise that their floor knows about the error and they’ll all get killed.

 

So the urgency is from the fact that they’re going to get knocked off before long.

 

I assumed it was 1 or 2, but it could also have been a variant on 3.

 

Spoiler

If it was option 1, presumably the "released" prisoners would have been threatened with the deaths of everyone on their floor if they told anyone. Evidently one did it anyway. The same threat would presumably have been made for option 2.

 

I quite like the idea of a variant on option 3 though, which would involve the "released" prisoners being shipped off to another facility. Some beurocratic error could have been made and a prisoner ended up being sent back where he came from, which would still reveal that nobody was being released, and could still have led to the floor being wiped out to try and cover it up.

 

Ultimately it was all just a rumour anyway. Maybe it didn't happen at all, but it was enough to spark the uprising either way.

 

[Pob]

Spoiler

It's not 100% clear but I like to think it's no.2. It's more satisfying if the fuck up is due to the wider events seen in the show i.e the new directive, and also due ultimately to Cassian's own actions, rather that coincidentally happening when he's interned there.

 

I also think it's narratively satisfying in terms of how the Empire and the prison itself works. They're actually very understaffed relative the number of inmates and rule by fear. They've suddenly got a shitload more convicts to process and hold and they can't manage. Maybe they were supposed to start sending people off to some even worse prison where motivation to carry out slave labour doesn't really matter, but accidentally put someone back into Narkina and it all kicked off. Clearly if it was existing policy to put people back into a different floor once their time is up, it would've fallen apart long ago.

 

I don't think you can really be sure exactly what happened from the doc's dialogue. I guess the prisoners don't know exactly what went down either.

 

[Alex W.]

Yeah, I think it’s a nice decision in that regard not to over-explain it.

[probotector]

I like the irony the mid credit scene reveals in relation to Endor’s overall character arc 

[Alex W.]

And that’s a wrap. That’s got to be in the top three Star Wars things after Empire and A New Hope?! Incredible stuff from episode one and a perfect finale. 

[Alex W.]

On 28/02/2023 at 17:44, probotector said:

I like the irony the mid credit scene reveals in relation to Endor’s overall character arc 

Wait there were mid-credits scenes in this?

 

Edit - Oh wait you mean the last episode. Yeah that is like rain on your wedding day.

[ScouserInExile]

On 02/03/2023 at 21:18, Alex W. said:

And that’s a wrap. That’s got to be in the top three Star Wars things after Empire and A New Hope?! Incredible stuff from episode one and a perfect finale. 

Have you watched A New Hope recently? It's actually really quite bad if you take off your Star Wars tinted glasses and apply any kind of criticality to it. I loved it as a kid, but I watched it recently and thought "this is just crap...".

 

Empire isn't great, either.

[Alex W.]

[Darwock]

Had to wait for that meme to load, thought it was going to be a different one. Specifically this.

 

 

[Hanzo the Razor]

1 hour ago, ScouserInExile said:

Have you watched A New Hope recently? It's actually really quite bad if you take off your Star Wars tinted glasses and apply any kind of criticality to it. I loved it as a kid, but I watched it recently and thought "this is just crap...".

 

Empire isn't great, either.

 

[Kevvy Metal]

2 hours ago, ScouserInExile said:

Have you watched A New Hope recently? It's actually really quite bad if you take off your Star Wars tinted glasses and apply any kind of criticality to it. I loved it as a kid, but I watched it recently and thought "this is just crap...".

 

Empire isn't great, either.

 

[ScouserInExile]

I thought that'd be the general reaction and I really don't want to start a thread derailment, but I stand by my opinion.

 

For a start, the acting throughout is almost universally awful. Mark Hamil is particularly bad, but you'd only say that Harrison Ford puts in a decent performance. More than decent, in fact, he steals every scene he's in.

 

The biggest issue is that it doesn't really make a lot of sense. I know it's a kids' sci-fi film and you shouldn't analyse it too deeply, but it just has loads of issues that just seem to get hand-waved away. Reference intended. While the overarching plot of "rulers of the galaxy have developed an awful weapon and so the rebels have stolen the plans in an attempt to stop them" is perfectly fine, how this plays out isn't.

Too much of it is reliant on the Empire being complete idiots. I think Family Guy pointed out the escape pod thing, but not shooting it is really illogical - they scan for life forms, detect none and let it go. But they know droids exists as sentient beings capable of carrying and transmitting the mcguffin they're trying to stop leaving the ship. When the Millennium Falcon arrives at the site of the destroyed planet, the Death Star doesn't challenge it, they just drag it on board (despite a Tie Fighter having already shot at it for no reason) and then leave it almost entirely unguarded. When Han, Luke and Leia jump into the garbage chute, the troops on the Death Star seemingly immediately forget about them and don't ask any obvious questions like "where did they go?", "where does that chute come out?" and "should we pop down and fetch them out of there?". The depth of the water and the creature in that whole section are illogical as well. I've seen a few jokes around a lack of health and safety on the Death Star, but wouldn't deactivating systems like vital tractor beams set an alarm of some description? And when it comes to the attack on the Death Star, why is the ultimate weapon in the universe wandering about essentially unguarded? They should have a load of Star Destroyers and huge amounts of fighter cover in tow.

Speaking of which, I always remember the attack on the Death Star being a huge battle, but the rebels only send a dozen fighters and the Empire only seems to be able to muster about half of that in Tie Fighters. And one of the Rebel fighters is piloted by someone they barely know - though I think there's meant to be more of gap between them rescuing Leia and attacking the Death Star, since they've already worked out a weakness in a massively complicated ultimate weapon space station deal. 

 

The Force is really problematic in this first film. It's depicted as this thing that no-one really knows about - Han Solo has never even heard anything about it, not even "I just don't believe in it", despite having been around the universe once or twice. And one of the Empire guys describes it as an "ancient superstition". But no-one bats an eyelid when people suddenly start performing actual magic to choke or mind control people. Then, as soon as Luke is told about it, everyone starts using "may the Force be with you" as a way of saying "see you later". 

 

There's issues with the special effects. I refuse to be critical of the practical effects because they 45 years old and still look ace, imo. But scale is often an issue and there's this weird thing that happens in basically all the original films where, whenever there's a laser battle going on, there are lasers criss-crossing every shot, even when it makes no sense.

 

Something I didn't notice until watching it recently is that when Luke's aunt and uncle / adopted parents get killed, his reaction is pretty much "oh right". When "old Ben" who he's only just had anything to do with dies, he's suddenly giving it "I can't believe he's gone!" like he was his adopted father or something.

 

And Empire is just a bit dull. To the point where my son kept asking when it was going to finish.

[Darren]

[Boothjan]

[Pob]

Nah, there's some good points in @ScouserInExile's post. I do think bit on the Death Star is a bit naff and I get bored around that point. It's knockabout fun but doesn't compare to the first act.

 

Empire, though. It's beyond criticism.

[Alex W.]

I know exactly where you’re coming from but although they’re entirely different kinds of “good”, it’s clear Andor is the only other Star Wars moving pictures property in that upper echelon.

[Mogster]

Some of the issues with ANH are simply due to the universe not being fully established yet, and others due to budget. I don't think it's amazing these days either, but it's still fun and a great introduction to everything. My main complaint is a the surprisingly slow pace.

[Stoppy2000]

It's a moot point anyway as we all know ROTJ is the best Star Wars film. 

[Don Rosco]

A New Hope fka STAR WARS

10 hours ago, ScouserInExile said:

Have you watched A New Hope recently? It's actually really quite bad if you take off your Star Wars tinted glasses and apply any kind of criticality to it. I loved it as a kid, but I watched it recently and thought "this is just crap...".

 

Empire isn't great, either.

 

[Steve McQueef]

I agree regarding A New Hope, but rinse your dirty whorish mouth out, as far as Empire is concerned.

[paulie12]

@ScouserInExile  Now do Raiders of the Lost Ark and ruin ALL of our childhoods.

[Hanzo the Razor]

11 hours ago, paulie12 said:

@ScouserInExile  Now do Raiders of the Lost Ark and ruin ALL of our childhoods.

 

He'll rue the fucking day if he breathes a word of criticism about Raiders.

[Steve McQueef]

The Big Bang Theory tried and failed. 

[Hanzo the Razor]

4 hours ago, Steve McQueef said:

The Big Bang Theory tried and failed. 

 

At being funny in any way, shape or form? I agree.

[Pistol]

Totally agree that A New Hope gets a pass because of nostalgia armour, which makes a lot of the criticisms of modern Star Wars a bit hypocritical, but I still bloody love it and will forgive its failings regardless.

 

 

Andor is almost beyond reproach for me, if it wasn’t for my fondness for the originals it would be my favourite Star Wars thing ever.

[ScouserInExile]

18 hours ago, Steve McQueef said:

The Big Bang Theory tried and failed. 

Is that the idea that Indy achieved nothing and had no influence on the outcome of the film? I would disagree with that since a) it was him that found the Ark and b) he punched Nazis...

[Alex W.]

I don’t want to rehash a sitcom’s B-plot which was obviously just paraphrased from an argument the writers had, but he found the Ark because he had the staff piece and the Nazis didn’t. But if he hadn’t been there, the Nazis would’ve had the staff piece.

 

But of course without Indy, Marion would certainly be dead, and Indy wouldn’t have come face to face with the supernatural. That’s the story we actually care about.