The Mandalorian

[TehStu]

11 minutes ago, sid said:

Jesus this forum is unable to discuss anything as usual.

If you don't know anything/much about holocaust denial, before you judge the merit of discussion on this forum I would urge you to do some research. It was obviously such an horrendous moment in history that even the suggestion of denial should have you reaching for the new Google tab, without any education directed from members of this forum required. My stance of utter outrage is perfectly valid, and not a reflection of anyone's ability to discuss anything on this site.

 

In fact, "I don't know [...]" is a lousy thing to interject in a discussion, unless it was immediately followed with "but I'll go educate myself".

[Eighthours]

Yes, the major difference is that the Jews didn't do anything to deserve their beyond horrific treatment. However, supporting the world's most deranged President, ignoring all evidence about the dangers of Coronavirus and pushing dangerous myths to your fanbase, and not respecting people's reasonable wishes to be called by their desired pronouns, is more than enough for someone to be called out without being able to laughably invoke Godwin's Law. Carano had more than enough chances to change course! I'm sure she'll see this as a prime example of people not being entitled to free speech - and certainly the alt-right keyboard warriors are going to drone on for days about this while completely missing the point - but it's just that someone with a public profile can and should face consequences for tweeting dangerous nonsense and this isn't a bad thing. Unlike some, I do think that cancel culture exists and is potentially an insidious thing, but certainly not in this instance. Her sacking is well justified!

[sid]

10 minutes ago, TehStu said:

If you don't know anything/much about holocaust denial, before you judge the merit of discussion on this forum I would urge you to do some research. It was obviously such an horrendous moment in history that even the suggestion of denial should have you reaching for the new Google tab, without any education directed from members of this forum required. My stance of utter outrage is perfectly valid, and not a reflection of anyone's ability to discuss anything on this site.

 

In fact, "I don't know [...]" is a lousy thing to interject in a discussion, unless it was immediately followed with "but I'll go educate myself".

So we should google things instead of discussing them . oook

 

this used to be a place you could have a discussion.

[velma]

In order for you to have a discussion, you need to have some basic knowledge to discuss. If you don't have anything to discuss then consider listening to others who have taken the time to inform themselves of the subject first. 

[Harsin]

Hrrrrrmmmm yes, was the holocaust actually the equivalent of some right-wing headbangers being criticised on social media is truly a topic that is worthy of in-depth discussion to reach an answer.

[Talvalin]

8 minutes ago, velma said:

In order for you to have a discussion, you need to have some basic knowledge to discuss. If you don't have anything to discuss then consider listening to others who have taken the time to inform themselves of the subject first. 

[probotector]

2 hours ago, SeanR said:

False Equivalence:

 

being a Republican in the US is NOT the same as being Jewish in Nazi Germany.

 

in fact, being a Republican in the US is MORE like being a Nazi in Nazi Germany... BECAUSE OF THEIR USE OF THE SAME TECHNIQUES.

This is pretty much it.

Right now, it’s the evils in society that are using the tools of justice to undermine society as a whole.

Right wingers, especially the alt right are weaponising methods that the left used in good faith in order to fight against progressive politics.

 

The alt-right have been clear that this is their method to further their own ideals.

 

Lucasfilm Nuked her hard. Their statement calling her tweets abhorrent is good starting point to start purging these idiots.

[Waggo]

13 minutes ago, velma said:

In order for you to have a discussion, you need to have some basic knowledge to discuss. If you don't have anything to discuss then consider listening to others who have taken the time to inform themselves of the subject first. 

 

That is a lecture not a discussion.  

[velma]

1 minute ago, Waggo said:

 

That is a lecture not a discussion.  

 

Listening to a number of other posters having an informed discussion is a lecture? How so? 

 

I read a lot of stuff in the covid threads from people on here with medical/scientific backgrounds. I don't decide that they're lecturing me because I haven't got the same level of contribution. I don't get a curt response if I ask a question, but I would expect one if I just tried to shoot down their posts without having anything worthwhile to counter. 

[Talvalin]

10 minutes ago, Waggo said:

 

That is a lecture not a discussion.  

Let's turn that idea on its head for a second. Do you think that people barging into a thread, posting bollocks and then backtracking by saying they don't know anything about the subject is a discussion? 

 

They're basically demanding for others to explain things to them because they can't be bothered to do the bare minimum of a few minutes' reading (be that here or elsewhere on the Internet). Fuck that.

[Jimmyzilla]

All of this just makes me think of that Katie Hopkins photo with the target she's stuck on her forehead

[Uncle Mike]

These days you can't even minimise the extent and evil nature of the Holocaust without getting very mild pushback in an internet forum in the shape of a discussion where it is quite gently suggested you could do some research and thinking of your own.

[Steve McQueef]

Off you fuck, Gina. Don't let the door hit ya on the way out.

 

After listening to the absurdity about how Bill Burr got the gig, give him a spin-off. 

[Uncle Mike]

I mean, we are literally discussing it. What we aren't doing is nodding along like Musk and Rogan stoned on a podcast.

[TehStu]

35 minutes ago, sid said:

So we should google things instead of discussing them . oook

 

this used to be a place you could have a discussion.

You should seek to understand things in order to discuss them, because you took a stance absent of information and drew a conclusion about me/this place. And then you did it again, in the second sentence above. It's that you've adopted a position, not that you cannot discuss anything here. We're literally having a discussion.

 

Now, federated authentication in Azure? Yeah, fire away, there's a frightfully dull topic to Google.

 

Holocaust denial? You know, those two words together should illicit some sort of "huh, yeah, I best find out myself what that's all about, particularly as people seemed to be quite pissed off about it" response, not expecting people to both a) bring you up to speed and b) demonstrate Gina's part in it and then when we don't, complain about lack of discussion.

[Stoppy2000]

40 minutes ago, sid said:

So we should google things instead of discussing them . oook

 

this used to be a place you could have a discussion.

Oh no. Are you being oppressed? What an outrage. 

[sid]

53 minutes ago, velma said:

FWIW there have been other examples where public figures have compared treatment of X group, or strategies used by X group, with the treatment of Jews, or with the Nazis. If that comparison is felt to be obviously wrong, IE that the thing they are comparing is anything other than genocide, then it is widely accepted under the definition of anti semitism. The reasoning behing that the act of comparison is minimising the seriousness of the Holocaust and what actually happened. 

 

That might seem like a stretch until you remember that attempts to undermine and minimise public perception of the Holocaust has been a priority for far right groups over the years. 

 

 

Ok thanks I can see that point.... when anything at all compared to the Holocaust can undermine it in any way you can’t use therefore it as an example. Even if in itself the comparison is not specifically anti Semitic. Understood thanks....every days a school day and all that.
 

Fucking hell this place though.

[Waggo]

8 minutes ago, Talvalin said:

Let's turn that idea on its head for a second. Do you think that people barging into a thread, posting bollocks and then backtracking by saying they don't know anything about the subject is a discussion? 

 

 

No that is a perfectly valid point.  But equally admitting you are out of your depth on a subject that you have commented on perhaps without fully understanding the context, is to my mind an apolgetic post that got jumped all over.  Don't forget this thread is actually about popular TV show The Mandalorian at the end of the day, and posters contributing may be trying to understand why a character they may like in that show has been fired.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[womblingfree]

Looking forward to the new Star Wars: Rangers series with Bill Burr and new a new main Alderaanian lady-ranger played by Ashley Eckstein.

 

The Force will then have brought balance to itself.

 

 

[TehStu]

13 minutes ago, sid said:

Fucking hell this place though.

In a tweet about the Holocaust, an event we're far enough away from that people are openly denying it happened, which also noted that "history is edited", did you honestly have trouble drawing the distinction between simply objecting to someone's political views and the fact the government "made" ordinary Germans round up the Jews? Because, I don't think the folks of Germany were simply having political views, they were being antisemitic. Being anti-BLM isn't politics, it's straight up racism, however people suggest otherwise.

 

Anyway, if you did, I apologise for my ranting. Happy to stop shitting up people's enjoyment of sci-fi and can take it to

 

[velma]

@Waggo as a mod I come across some posters more than others who are quick to jump in with controversial opinions and then back peddle with the 'well I didn't know that/you can't say anything round here' defense. So that does influence how much credence I give to such posts. However I genuinely wouldn't want anyone to feel they aren't able to post. I do think there's some common sense needed though, that if a subject being debated involves particularly sensitive subjects, eg race, religion, disability, etc that people should be prepared to either research their point or read some of the discussion first before taking a contrary stance. Its one thing to come in with an open mind, another to essentially start with 'i disagree' or 'i don't see what the fuss is about'. The recent BLM debates were a really good example of that, with lots of explanations as to why certain things were offensive, and what the first hand experience is like, with short shrift given to people who came into the debates with nothing more than  'I'm used to having an platform for my opinion so I'm going to share it here' when they had no relevant experience or knowledge to contribute. 

 

[Don Rosco]

Surely she should have compared US Conservatives to the people who died in the holocaust because of their political beliefs, all the *checks notes* ...socialists and communists?

[Waggo]

40 minutes ago, velma said:

@Waggo as a mod I come across some posters more than others who are quick to jump in with controversial opinions and then back peddle with the 'well I didn't know that/you can't say anything round here' defense. So that does influence how much credence I give to such posts. However I genuinely wouldn't want anyone to feel they aren't able to post. I do think there's some common sense needed though, that if a subject being debated involves particularly sensitive subjects, eg race, religion, disability, etc that people should be prepared to either research their point or read some of the discussion first before taking a contrary stance. Its one thing to come in with an open mind, another to essentially start with 'i disagree' or 'i don't see what the fuss is about'. The recent BLM debates were a really good example of that, with lots of explanations as to why certain things were offensive, and what the first hand experience is like, with short shrift given to people who came into the debates with nothing more than  'I'm used to having an platform for my opinion so I'm going to share it here' when they had no relevant experience or knowledge to contribute. 

 

 

Fair enough.  I don't have any prior experience with Sid as a poster to understand the full context. 

 

It just looked to me from the outside that he had made a post about something he had little understanding of, attempted to backtrack and got jumped all over for doing so.

[wev]

4 minutes ago, Waggo said:

 

Fair enough.  I don't have any prior experience with Sid as a poster to understand the full context. 

 

It just looked to me from the outside that he had made a post about something he had little understanding of, attempted to backtrack and got jumped all over for doing so.

It's a common tactic used by people who tend to only offer toxicity to a conversation. They throw out a bit of bait, see which kind of fish bites then either double down or backtrack, feigning ignorance if the latter is their next step. They know full-well what they're doing.

 

I read earlier that after her comments about pronouns Pedro Pascal had a chat with her about why her comments were harmful, that she didn't see that as an opportunity to consider other opinions she has before taking to social media to spout them shows her lack of intelligence.

[Steve McQueef]

Someone's very salty about this.

 

[iknowgungfu]

 A shame as I quite liked her character. I'm not sure if she was being anti-Semitic or intentionally anti-Semitic but any decent adult should recognise that the comparison she was using was completely insensitive.

 

Freedom of speech is obviously something everyone has a right to but it doesn't mean that you have to be an arse to boot. I'm sure she could have voiced her opinions on the matter without the insensitive comments/comparisons to one of the worse atrocities we humans have ever committed.

[Sardan]

I’m often (wrongly) considered to be right wing here and I’m happy to be called a liberal, “centrist dad”, “melt”, “slug” or whatever.  I also really like the Mandalorian.  I’m not that fussed about Gina Carson in the programme and don’t think I had ever heard of her before it. Taking all that into account I cannot see how anyone can possibly defend Gina Carson’s actions. 
 

Freedom of speech has never been absolute and is not the freedom to spout whatever nonsense you like.

 

It also doesn’t give you the right to be free from the consequences of your speech, or for you to be free from people using their freedom of speech to argue against you or call for you to face consequences. 
 

Comparing Republicans in the US to Jews in Nazi Germany is clearly nonsense of the highest order.

 

I don’t think I go as far as to consider it Holocaust denial but I do think it is anti-Semitic by clearly belittling the suffering of the Jewish people in the Holocaust by drawing an utterly false equivalence.

 

At best her comments were immensely stupid and perhaps a swift and sincere apology and genuine contrition could right the situation but given the other things she is on record as saying that seems unlikely and/or it’s the final straw. 
 

If I was Disney I wouldn’t want someone like her representing my brand. If she is too stupid to work that out, and when to keep her mouth shut, then that’s another reason I would want rid of her. 
 

I cannot believe anyone would stand up for her or think the reactions to her comments are disproportionate. 

[drmick]

She's been in Hollywood for what, ten years? And had a social media presence for say five years? A Disney employee for two years?

 

There's nobody that stupid that they would not have been very acutely aware of the risk of saying or promoting anything that even is a teeny tiny bit possibly anti-Semitic. Thus she must be very oppositional independent of whatever her political inclinations are.

[Matt Defis]

Why do these people say anything on social media, why not shut the fuck up and collect those fat payments.

[probotector]

2 hours ago, Steve McQueef said:

Someone's very salty about this.

 

I’m awaiting Ben Shapiro’s take on this.

 

Or rather Sam Seder’s or Hasan piker’s analysis of Shabibo’s response cos I don’t want to give him views...