The Mandalorian

[Mogster]

9 minutes ago, Nicky said:

The prison break was fucking shit, made all the worse by the awful pantomime overacted twileks and every scene looking exactly the same as the last. I don't fully get the bottle episode thing when a hell of a lot of the scenes were done in UnrealEngine in a virtual stage. Must have cost 10 pence.

 

The unreal engine stuff was on a screen. The sets the characters interacted with were mostly real with the odd bit of green screen.

[RJames]

Finally! I should’ve known I could rely on RLLMUK for at least some grumpy criticism. Mostly agree with Clipper on S1.

 

This may be one of the most overrated shows of all time. It LOOKS fantastic. I love a lot of the casting...

... but the writing is laughably bad. No people speak like people do in some of the episodes of this. Many episodes are monster of the week except bad.

 

Some episodes are great (the prison break one) but they are rare.

 

The fan service and small-universe-ism is absolutely excruciating.

 

The last episode had me rolling my eyes so hard. Imagine watching that if you had no idea who *that* was? It would make absolutely no sense at all because there is no set up.

 

Film Crit Hulk wrote an essay on each episode and he nails down very well what made me feel so uneasy about the weak ones: https://www.patreon.com/filmcrithulk

 

Interesting mega essay on the Assassins Creed games too (which I agree with a bit less...).

[RJames]

Oh and the introduction of characters entirely to serve spin off shows is jarring as all hell.

[Clipper]

58 minutes ago, Nicky said:

The prison break was fucking shit, made all the worse by the awful pantomime overacted twileks and every scene looking exactly the same as the last. I don't fully get the bottle episode thing when a hell of a lot of the scenes were done in UnrealEngine in a virtual stage. Must have cost 10 pence.

 

Similarly I just do not get the finale at all.

 

Spoiler

The wall was blown out last time - so we have Moff Gideon (yeah that's his name no sniggering he is an ultra hard badass honestly!) getting a billion storm troopers to assemble a big gun to blow the bar to bits. He pontificates for ages with a half decent speech then says "you have til sundown" - he is dealing with 3 people in a bar and half the wall is gone! What purpose is there to waiting? - I know you might say ooooooh he wants Baby Yoda alive but at the beginning of the series we were told it was fine to bring him in dead or alive and IG-11 was just going for the simple route of dead hence getting extra ventilation in his head from Mando.

 

So that is daft... THEN IG-11 finds the baby yoda and shoots the speeder bike guys (I did love the speeder bike guy chat at the beginning) and he decides to not run off and get in the ship but go into the town and rescue Mando and team? Why?

 

In the bar super hard rebel lady using the gatling gun blaster to open a sewer grate which, it turns out, its made of Vibranium for some reason?

 

Then IG-11 returns and it is obviously a killing machine. This means that the 3 in the bar who were SO CERTAIN that shooting their way out was bad suddenly think its great to go outside and try to shoot their way out - IG11 is pretty good with blasters so ok.

 

Somehow the shootout ends with them back in the bar? Who wrote that? I mean that is what you write when you are past your lunchbreak and you think "oh I'll quickly scribble this then fix it later" except they forgot to go back and fix it

 

THEN we are back in the bar and the IG11 can easily sort out out the sewer grate made of unobtanium.

 

Then into the sewer to find mystical armour Mandolorian and well its ok but the storm troopers take exactly as long as it takes for the plot to move to find our heroes

 

Finally they use a boat with (MEMBERBERRIES) an R2 unit which hahahaha get this yeah... ready... yeah... has ARMS AND LEGS woohoo top joke. My word....

 

Then oh no the lava stream outlet has an ambush waiting for it there might be about 12 stormtroopers waiting for them! I mean forget the fact that IG11 took on way more than that and the team despatched a fuckton of them outside the bar - these 12 are deadly serious. So serious IG11 has to sacrifice himself with a T2 moment...... ooook

 

Finally Mando does something very cool to take down Moff Gideon's (no really it is a serious name!) Tie Fighter. It doesn't explode but mmmmmmeh he is probably dead so the team do backslapping and walk off into sunset.

 

And then? ohhhhhhh Gideon isn't dead after all... SHOCK.

 

And THAT is why the finale , to me, is not great

 

 

 

I like the prison break because - despite the overacting by purple lady (and purple guy actually) and the stupid droid hunts baby yoda it was a fun little episode. Contained, compact with loads of nice touches... Clancy Brown was really good as well.

 

Compared to the Tatooine MEMBERBERRIES episode and the village ATeam episode it was great!

 

 

 

 

FInally regarding finale the reason I am so down on it is that the setup in 7 is actually good it honestly felt like Best of Both Worlds where part 1 is brilliant and they then forgot they had to do part 2 and then got the crayons out

 

[Mogster]

Well this thread suddenly got depressing. I want the unbridled positivity back!

 

Regarding spin-off characters being "jarring" though, at the time the show aired there was no indication that any spin-offs were in the works. I thought they were used really well, and didn't get the impression that they were just there to promote other shows.

[Boothjan]

Well I'm rewatching S1 with my daughter and I'm enjoying it just as much as the first time.

 

I much preferred S2 but looking at the show as a whole, I think it's absolutely tremendous.

 

There you go, @Mogster, some more positivity for you.

[MardiganX]

I’m finding myself watching the finale of Season 2 every few days. Each time it gets me. I recently purchased an Oculus Quest 2 and playing the Vader Immortal game I was able to

Spoiler

force pull a droid towards me and slice it with my lightsaber as I ducked.

 

Spoiler because you really can’t be too careful with this stuff. 
 

When I watch this show I do so with the enthusiasm, joy and smile of a child. Sure if you take a step back you could rip it apart so if that’s what you fancy crack on and leave yourself feeling very satisfied with your straight forward and fairly obvious analysis. The plot devices and secondary character actions are there to serve the higher purpose of creating a backdrop for the key parts and characters of the show to excel. Yes they are sometimes dumb as fuck but it’s only when I read someone else’s breakdown of these things do I even realise they are there. Im too caught up in all the shit it gets absolutely perfect to care or even notice.

 

Star Wars was once about magic, imagination and nothing other than how you couldn’t help yourself from feeling while watching it. Season 2 of Mandalorian (for me anyway) is the greatest Star Wars anything since I was that kid first watching it almost 40 years ago. Its quite depressing to admit this but I genuinely don’t think I will ever feel the way I did while watching the season 2 finale again as a result of a TV show or movie. But if I do I suspect it will have something to do with the incredible foundations that Mandalorian has laid for what Star Wars could do in the future.

 

[Sardan]

 

 

Yeah as others have said, season 2 is definitely better than season 1.

 

46 minutes ago, MardiganX said:

 

When I watch this show I do so with the enthusiasm, joy and smile of a child.

 

When I watch this the pacing and the plot elements do seem to me to hark back to an 80s TV show and I watch it in that context.  Yes some of the plot elements are a bit daft, but so what? Suspend your disbelief.  Clipper mentions the A Team and yes, there's a similarity in places. 

 

I absolutely loved Star Wars as a child.  My father taking me to see the first film is one of of my earliest memories. I had a lot of the toys and Empire and Jedi were huge events.

 

The prequels left me cold.  They aren't very good and are a huge wasted opportunity. Absolutely terrible. I saw them at the cinema and laughed at large parts of them.

 

The sequels are okay, and while better than the prequels, don't hang together fr me at all.  I don't really see the point of any of them.   Underwhelmed but I don't hate them like the prequels.  And I got to tale my oldest son to the cinema to watch them.

 

I really enjoyed Rogue One.  The best of the post Jedi films in my opinion.  But the tone is very different from Star Wars.  Its darker.  And I find that a little odd.

 

Solo is fine.  I enjoyed it more than the Sequels (or Prequels obviously).  Yes they crammed a lot of Solo's backstory into one film.  But I liked it.

 

Mandolorian is to my mind, the best Star Wars since Jedi.  The tone, 80s TV show, works for me because that is how I approach it, like Mardigan X, as an enthusiastic child, and on that basis the Mandalorian is great fun.  And for me it's the best Star Wars since Jedi.

 

So don't take it too seriously or look at it too critically - enjoy it for what it is, a space romp much like Star Wars.

[Delargey]

I can see why people don't like the Saturday afternoon feel so it, but I really enjoy the story of the week element- even if it was if you want x first you have to help with y every week.

[Clipper]

yep I am onboard with story of the week , I grew up with it so it does fit for me but sometimes it can be a bit too formulaic as I pointed out So some good some not so good.

 

I watched first episode of season 2 and I need to spoiler

 

Spoiler

Pleasantly surprised. As soon as I heard Tattooine I was harrumphing - why can't Star Wars do anything NEW back to Mos Eisley meh. But hey they went to a different "Mos" yay! Then you see the mando armour and think oh for fuck's sake they brought HIM back - then bait and switch which was nice

 

In the end the Tattooine element did not bother me so much, maybe because the story this time was much better... still filler level A team but better maybe an episode for sweeps week . This episode almost mirrors the village episode in season one and it is hard to pinpoint why this one works much better.The performance from Mando was better and he wasn't overshadowed by the other characters so he is rising to meet the challenge as it were. Timothy Olyphant helped as I love him as a character actor and he was not chewing scenery, which he has a habit of doing! Great performances and a good story of the week and not too many memberberries.

 

 

 

 

YES I saw the reveal at the end - a problem/annoyance for another day

3/5

[Clipper]

Season 2 episode 2

 

That is more like it... weak wobbly opening to get the plot moving but that is all forgiven once the episode gets going. This time Mando comes to the fore with no real distractions from characters of the week. The fact that the 3 main protagonists in this episode cannot communicate and yet they seem to operate well together is down to some great writing.

 

Action heavy but great action and some funny moments - good lord I finally saw some character in the muppet

 

More of this PLEASE

 

5/5

[cavalcade]

I've finished S2 now. Glad to see some more grump in this thread now, as I can't say the run in to the end of S2 did anything other than make me even less inclined to like the show. 

I was pondering its total lack of.... spirit? joy? wit?.... as I watched Episode 6, and I think the opening 5 minutes pretty much encapsulate all my issues with it. It's helmet man and yoda sitting in the spaceship having a chat. Stilted almost.... improvised? dialogue so banal and mundane I genuinely couldn't believe it had reached the screen. I guess this is the predictable end point when you essentially have the tale of two monosyllabic religious fundamentalists doing side quests. I don't want to go on and on about it, but this opening bit of dialogue (and the stultifying dullness of the remainder of the episode) really points to why the Doctor is given a companion or why you have characters like Xander or Wash in a scifi setting. You need someone to point out the absurdity of a situation and give the audience some sort of way in.  I guess the closest Mandalorian comes to this is the blue skinned dude or Bill Burr, but neither are very good. Imagine if Han sliced opened the Tauntaun and just... stuffed Luke in it in silence. That's The Mandalorian.

 

The snow planet episode is another good example of this. After running away from space beasts and all the chaos then trying to start the ship and then taking off before something else goes wrong it needs one fucking person to look at the situation (including the space frog) and just go "WTF is actually happening here?". It's a cliche for a reason in science fiction - you need to soft break the fourth wall from time to time, or have the script and commitment to double down on the seriousness. Mandolorian does neither.  

 

And the ending. To basically invalidate one of the strongest bits of the series (which is it appears to be taking place in a slightly enlarged universe rather than the adventures of about 7 family members and people who know them) it decides to chuck that on the bonfire and dish out a bit of toe curling fan service, which makes little sense and culminates in CGI so unrealistic it at least matched the dialogue. Someone further up the thread was all like "if you haven't felt emotion yet, wait until you get to the last episoide!!!!11!!!". They were right. I did feel an emotion, and it was a strong sense of disappointment. 

 

I give it meh/10

 

And yes - "if you dont like it dont watch it!!!". It was fine. Sometimes I eat service station sandwiches. Life does not have to be curated for just excellence. 

 

  

[Clipper]

not even sure I bring "the grump" - I broadly like it and enjoy it - I just think there is the odd clunker episode in there.

 

 

[Matt Defis]

I don't get these people who don't understand who turns up in the final episode, who else could it be, there's literally 4 possible people and 1 of them is attemting to rebuild so is actively searching for others, it's the only person that makes sense and the only choice to go with, it might be fanservice but it makes perfect sense in the story.

[cavalcade]

1 hour ago, Matt Defis said:

I don't get these people who don't understand who turns up in the final episode, who else could it be, there's literally 4 possible people and 1 of them is attemting to rebuild so is actively searching for others, it's the only person that makes sense and the only choice to go with, it might be fanservice but it makes perfect sense in the story.

 

It's boring, lazy, predictable, pandering to the mouthbreathers who didn't like the characterisation in TLJ and is topped off with CGI that would've disgraced Seaquest DSV. 

[Stoppy2000]

3 minutes ago, cavalcade said:

 

It's boring, lazy, predictable, pandering to the mouthbreathers who didn't like the characterisation in TLJ and is topped off with CGI that would've disgraced Seaquest DSV. 

It's not that predictable. But yeah. You've stated your case. It's probably not for you*. 

 

 

 

*See you here after series 3. 

[cavalcade]

1 minute ago, Stoppy2000 said:

It's not that predictable. But yeah. You've stated your case. It's probably not for you*. 

 

 

 

*See you here after series 3. 

 

You maybe need to chat to Matt about the predictability then, because "who else could it be".

[Stoppy2000]

3 minutes ago, cavalcade said:

 

You maybe need to chat to Matt about the predictability then, because "who else could it be".

It's the best choice in my opinion... But it's certainly not the only possibility. 

[Matt Defis]

Ahsoka said no, which leaves Ezra who's off in the unknown regions and Cal Kestis but we have no idea where he is or what he's doing at this point so that leaves only one person.

[Stoppy2000]

8 minutes ago, Matt Defis said:

Ahsoka said no, which leaves Ezra who's off in the unknown regions and Cal Kestis but we have no idea where he is or what he's doing at this point so that leaves only one person.

So three credible options. I still didn't rule Ahsoka out though. The option they went for surprised me as I felt Ezra was nailed on. I do think it worked out perfectly (slightly ropey CGI aside). 

[NGINX]

34 minutes ago, cavalcade said:

 

It's boring, lazy, predictable, pandering to the mouthbreathers who didn't like the characterisation in TLJ and is topped off with CGI that would've disgraced Seaquest DSV. 

 

I'd rather they done that than pander to the weird generation of star wars fans that act like crack-addicts trying to recapture that first sweet hit of childhood nostalgia and are weirdly aggressive about anything that doesn't sate the impossible. 

[cavalcade]

I'm not sure that was as pithy and scathing as you intended it to be. 

[Stoppy2000]

31 minutes ago, cavalcade said:

I'm not sure that was as pithy and scathing as you intended it to be. 

Did it need more 'soul'?

[cavalcade]

2 minutes ago, Stoppy2000 said:

Did it need more 'soul'?

 

I like you.

[Death's Head]

I dunno, as a fairly casual viewer I figured it had to be 

Spoiler

Luke

 because to other casual viewers that's the only character to make any sense. Apart from Ahsoka I've never heard of the other candidates mentioned above and I'm sure other casual viewers wouldn't have.  

[Uncle Mike]

But it could have been someone new, and widened the Universe. This notion that everyone has to be someone that's already been created is odd.

[Matt Defis]

But it can't be someone new, there are literally only 4 Jedi around at that point in canon.

[Delargey]

It's plausible for the mandelorian so have introduced completely new Jedi characters in this series if they wanted to without contradicting the movies.

 

When Obi Wan and Yoda spoke about Luke and Liea defeating Vader they could have meant that only his children could be powerful enough to beat him, or that only his kids could motivate him to turn on the Emporer.

 

It's believable that a few other Jedi survived the purge and went into hiding, but have come back into the open after the fall of the Empire.

 

Obviously, introducing an entirely new Jedi just in the final episode wouldn't have had the same impact so the series would have had to play out differently but it's wouldn't be contradictory.

 

You could have had a character searching for redemption for not doing more to help the rebellion and that to be his motivation to help the Mando, (maybe, like  Ronin type jedi travelling with the Mando to regain his honour ) or an apprentice who hasn't fully mastered the force and that be a source of conflict in the next series.

 

It's not necessarily the way they should have gone, but it's a big universe and entirely possible that there are jedi out there, that Luke could never find, or just didn't want to kick it with the son of vader.

 

Edit: I'm not familiar with the canon, so I dunno how well it is established that ALL the Jedi were wiped out bar the ones known, but canon in genre peices is a fickle thing and can be explained way if the character is interesting enough.

I'd like to see the Mando having adventures with a jedi (though one that isn't super powerful) for a season.

 

[womblingfree]

This entire show has had almost exclusively completely new characters leading it from the beginning. Then it tied in a few much loved characters from the animated series who deserved a wider audience, and finally it’s brought a couple in from the OT, both of whom showed skills they’d learned from their fathers as shown in the Prequels.

 

I’m all for stories telling the tales of people without shoe-horning in big names, but it’s been done so well in this and has actually tied together many disparate shows and movies into a coherent whole. Luke channeling Anakin was a revelation for me, and I am by no means a fan of the Prequels, likewise Boba Fett using the skills he’d learned from Jango. The way Filoni and Favreau weave it all together is masterful.

 

[Matt Defis]

32 minutes ago, Delargey said:

It's plausible for the mandelorian so have introduced completely new Jedi characters in this series if they wanted to without contradicting the movies.

 

When Obi Wan and Yoda spoke about Luke and Liea defeating Vader they could have meant that only his children could be powerful enough to beat him, or that only his kids could motivate him to turn on the Emporer.

 

It's believable that a few other Jedi survived the purge and went into hiding, but have come back into the open after the fall of the Empire.

 

Obviously, introducing an entirely new Jedi just in the final episode wouldn't have had the same impact so the series would have had to play out differently but it's wouldn't be contradictory.

 

You could have had a character searching for redemption for not doing more to help the rebellion and that to be his motivation to help the Mando, (maybe, like  Ronin type jedi travelling with the Mando to regain his honour ) or an apprentice who hasn't fully mastered the force and that be a source of conflict in the next series.

 

It's not necessarily the way they should have gone, but it's a big universe and entirely possible that there are jedi out there, that Luke could never find, or just didn't want to kick it with the son of vader.

 

Edit: I'm not familiar with the canon, so I dunno how well it is established that ALL the Jedi were wiped out bar the ones known, but canon in genre peices is a fickle thing and can be explained way if the character is interesting enough.

I'd like to see the Mando having adventures with a jedi (though one that isn't super powerful) for a season.

 

The problem with that is there have been books and comics set between ROTJ and TFA so we know what's going on around this period in terms of Jedi and what characters are up to and the Lucas story group are really on point with keeping everything without contradictions.

 

If you're a fan of the larger universe from other media then you'll know that was the only option that makes sense.