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The Mandalorian - Season 2 (open spoilers for big surprises)


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On 19/12/2020 at 11:24, c-cat114 said:

Loved almost everything about it. 

 

That said: I can see what the naysayers are saying. The arrival did relegate

 

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Mando to a passenger voyeur on his own series finale. I desperately wanted them to open the blast doors and take on the remaining dark troopers prior to the lift opening to help Luke out of a potential stand off. There was so many ways Mando could have been given a few heroic moments to parallel Luke's actions.

 

I'd like to have seen...

 

Spoiler

Mando waiting to the side of the bridge doors with his spear ready just after the X-wing came in, because he couldn't have attacked those farthest away without exposing himself or his spear, but he'd have downed some for sure, so why not have Luke saving the day shortly after Mando's been disarmed, swapping the Jedi combat for action on the bridge? At least injure if not kill a couple of the others.

 

They chose to have Mando standing there with his completely ineffective blaster, forgetting he'd recently one-shotted a Darktrooper with his Beskar spear, to instil tension. It's a tropetastic series, but that one had an obvious solution of having Mando and his mates overrun to show his spear wasn't godmode.

 

The bridge doors were another, where two DTs were almost through them in about the same time they needed to break the plexi windows on their bay doors. Those doors were wider, so why not have four DTs bashing them instead? Or they could've formed a robot scrum as an AI response to their earlier failure.

 

The prison episode in season one was pretty bad for this, where Kurgan was easily handled by Mando on the Razor Crest, but Hulked-out later on. Or IG-11 self-detonating to clear a bunch of Stormtroopers, when at any other point Mando would've just rocketed past throwing a couple of bombs. I felt they did a great job of levelling Mando up in the early episodes, but they've been chronic difficulty changers since.

 

And I reckon this is just me, but I actually found it easier to relate to Mando's emotions with his lid on. Whenever it was Pascal instead I was watching Pascal, y'know? The realworld equivalent of 8-bit imaginations! I think it's a case of either never showing us his face (characters can see it), or showing it a fair bit more so we're used to Spacewood with a helmet in place of a poncho.

 

As an areligious person, I also found it interesting that I liked the covert ‘cult’ the most. Probably just 'cause of the Armourer, though. Hers was definitely my way.

 

But grumbles aside (too many Saturday-arvo away missions, graboid excluded), I think it's the best Star Wars since The Empire Strikes Back (and better than both that and the original), has my favourite score since Game of Thrones', and I think Mando's a better character than they've ever had. A Luke/Han amalgam, really. But a Vader-tier villain next time, please.

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Me and my GF just did a binge watch of S1 and S2. She's not a Star Wars fan at all but really enjoyed this. We're just in the middle of watching Justified and both squee'ed at the Marshall.

 

I read through the whole thread last night and was surprised by the reactions to the music early on. I really liked Göransson's work on Venom and Tenet, and got into the music here very quickly. I think his work does take a couple of listens to worm its way into your brain. I know it did me.

 

This was the most Star Warsy thing I've seen in ages. I saw that some episodes were not as popular, like the village one or the prison one, but I enjoyed all of them immensely. I think being shown part of a world that you know but also don't know was very well done.

 

Can't wait for S3.

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3 hours ago, Commander Jameson said:

I read through the whole thread last night and was surprised by the reactions to the music early on. I really liked Göransson's work on Venom and Tenet, and got into the music here very quickly. I think his work does take a couple of listens to worm its way into your brain. I know it did me.

Totally agree with you. I was really surprised by the lukewarm reaction to the score. I loved it straight away and the S1 tracks are some of the most played on my Apple Music from this year. S2 pushes it on even further quality wise.

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On 31/12/2020 at 20:04, FiveFootNinja said:

Totally agree with you. I was really surprised by the lukewarm reaction to the score. I loved it straight away and the S1 tracks are some of the most played on my Apple Music from this year. S2 pushes it on even further quality wise.

 

People don't like the score? Really? The single best thing about the Mandalorian, for me.

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1 hour ago, Festoon said:

 

People don't like the score? Really? The single best thing about the Mandalorian, for me.

 

I was reading through the earlier part of this thread and loads of people had an instant dislike of it, me included. I think it's because it wasn't used in the best way in the early episodes. The main theme is dropped during the blurgg riding scene in episode 1 and doesn't really fit. Or maybe it just grows on you. I didn't like that theme when I first heard it, now I watch the credits all the way to the end every time.

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8 hours ago, sir stiff_one said:

There’s a video on YouTube of him talking about making it. It’s brilliant.

 

One of the Gallery episodes is all about the score too, which is probably where the Youtube video is ripped from based on that Ahsoka video earlier in the thread.

 

Chalk me down as another who loved the score from the start too. I was really surprised to see that some didn't when the show started, but glad to see it's apparently a grower. :D

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On 27/12/2020 at 19:29, Benny said:

If you only watched one episode of the first season and didn't like it, then honestly don't bother. You won't get anything more out of this one, especially if you've not watched the previous season.

 

So you need to consume it in its entirety to get anything out of it? That's always a turn off if the episodes can't convince you on their own of their inherent quality.

 

I just started watching DEVS, the first episode was enough to get me interested, but I like Alex Garland's previous works, so that probably helps.

 

I'm not adverse to Star Wars, having given Disney enough money in the past to watch prior stuff based on it, but the episode of S1 of this didn't seem to be more than a TV-level effort, so I was curious if S2 had stepped up the quality level. I also only watched one episode of Picard, and apparently my initial feelings about that show were accurate according to a Star Trek-loving friend.

 

I was recommended to try E4, the one directed by Carl Weathers, so once I've finished DEVS, I'll give that one a go and see if it's any better.

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2 hours ago, Mogster said:

 

One of the Gallery episodes is all about the score too, which is probably where the Youtube video is ripped from based on that Ahsoka video earlier in the thread.

 

Chalk me down as another who loved the score from the start too. I was really surprised to see that some didn't when the show started, but glad to see it's apparently a grower. :D

 

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32 minutes ago, AfromB said:

How about starting with the first episode and working through them in order so that you can follow the story?

Just drop it man. I have no idea what he’s looking for, but it’s like the opposite of what we stand for here in Mando town. This is the way.

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14 hours ago, mushashi said:

 

So you need to consume it in its entirety to get anything out of it? That's always a turn off if the episodes can't convince you on their own of their inherent quality.

 

I just started watching DEVS, the first episode was enough to get me interested, but I like Alex Garland's previous works, so that probably helps.

 

I'm not adverse to Star Wars, having given Disney enough money in the past to watch prior stuff based on it, but the episode of S1 of this didn't seem to be more than a TV-level effort, so I was curious if S2 had stepped up the quality level. I also only watched one episode of Picard, and apparently my initial feelings about that show were accurate according to a Star Trek-loving friend.

 

I was recommended to try E4, the one directed by Carl Weathers, so once I've finished DEVS, I'll give that one a go and see if it's any better.

This is a very bizarre way to try to watch a TV show surely? Picking random episodes of an overarching narrative in the hope they appeal to you? Just watch season 1 episode 1. If you don't like that then you won't like the rest of it. 

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14 hours ago, AfromB said:

How about starting with the first episode and working through them in order so that you can follow the story?

Haha missed this post which pretty much sums up my own response. 

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On 19/12/2020 at 22:46, Hamus said:

 

So they introduce this amazing Mandolorian character who's kickass, and new Yoda kid.

Who could well be set up to be an awesome new Jedi.

Which is a long set up and not puddle deep. Both things you've cried for.

It's very fresh - a mercenary killer who won't show his face, and he spins it all around because of a child.

 

This is a massive sell to parents too, don't underestimate that. It works, it pulls strings and it has depth I imagine you cannot fathom.

Once you have kids you get it. It's there. Mando understands that.

 

Star Wars has always been about family. This series took two wholly separate and different souls and crashed them together to form a family.

Which, heartbreakingly, then ended.

Yet it managed that, without someone saying I'm your father/cousin/nephew/clone/all the Jedi/sith/etc.

 

To make a family from two such juxtaposed characters, is far beyond what Star Wars has ever achieved before.

 

It's masterful, and bookending it with the *that bit * which many of us wanted for 30+ years is the absolute best way to close it off...and push it forward.

 

Has your poetry ever been published?

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I'm one of those tiresome people who doesn't really like the Mandolorian. I've forged on with Season 2 and I have to say my overwhelming feeling is that it's such a waste. Some of the visuals are spectacular - proper 70s scifi paintings come to life. Absolutely beautiful imagery hobbled by such ponderous, terrible characters and dialogue. 

 

Imagine if Firefly was blessed with this sort of budget and quality of CGI. That would be a show and a half. Imagine if the Mandolorian had any sort of humour, soul or verve in the writing. The introduction of Katie Sackhoff in an episode just served as a reminder for how BSG was characters first, SFX second and all the better for it. 

 

I think some of the hollowness feels almost deliberate. As if it's designed to be consumed with an associated cloud of Youtube videos and articles pointing out that X's toenail was a reference to a Star Wars game in the late 90s, or whatever. I'm not, not enjoying it. It's fine, I guess. Just a shame it's not better.  

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On 02/01/2021 at 19:29, mushashi said:

 

So you need to consume it in its entirety to get anything out of it? That's always a turn off if the episodes can't convince you on their own of their inherent quality.

 

I just started watching DEVS, the first episode was enough to get me interested, but I like Alex Garland's previous works, so that probably helps.

 

I'm not adverse to Star Wars, having given Disney enough money in the past to watch prior stuff based on it, but the episode of S1 of this didn't seem to be more than a TV-level effort, so I was curious if S2 had stepped up the quality level. I also only watched one episode of Picard, and apparently my initial feelings about that show were accurate according to a Star Trek-loving friend.

 

I was recommended to try E4, the one directed by Carl Weathers, so once I've finished DEVS, I'll give that one a go and see if it's any better.

 

Honestly, complaining that you can't just watch random episodes of something and fully appreciate it, whilst using the intricately plot-focused Devs as your counter-example, is one of the most absurd things I've seen in a while. You should have watched episode 3 of that first, see how far you got.

 

I'm not a Star Wars fanboy and have a short attention span for TV shows, but you can watch a whole season of this in around the same time as a long film. They're only 8 episodes each and they're mostly 30mins. It's not a big commitment.

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Anyway I thought the actual episodes of S2 were more consistent than S1 on the whole, although most of the fan service did nothing for me and I'd rather they avoided it in the future.

 

I'm surprised that S02E06 got such a strong response here, it was by far the weakest of the lot for me. Absolutely zero plot, even by the standards of this show, just a load of cheap looking action set in a generic desert. I actually laughed out loud when Rodriguez's name popped up at the end, as cheap action scenes in generic deserts are pretty much his motif.

 

Conversely I thought S02E02 was a fun little side adventure, the kind I'd like to see more of. Impressive effects, too.

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1 hour ago, Stoppy2000 said:

Just stop watching it then. 

 

I hadn't thought of that, thanks. 

 

If I stopped watching any scifi TV show that had dialogue worse than Firefly I'd have to stop watching them altogether. The Expanse finally broke me, as that had similar issues with piss poor dialogue, acting and characterisation but didn't have some of the painterly wonder of The Mandalorian (or a lifetime of being a fan of the franchise) to fall back on. So, I'll keep watching it and criticise it if that's OK with you?

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@cavalcade Wow. Obviously you are totally entitled to like or not like whatever you want, but I'm not sure I've seen a pair of such polar opposite posts to my own view in quite a long time! The Mandalorian and The Expanse are probably my favourite sci-fi shows since Space: Above and Beyond, and I really didn't get on with either Firefly* or BSG. :lol: Still life would be dull if we all liked the same things though so it's all good.

 

* I appreciate I'm in a massive minority on this based on most people I know but I found Firefly the definition of 'meh'.

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@FiveFootNinjaI would always prioritise a scifi show standing as a show if you took the pew pew layzors out and imagined it as a stage play or something. BSG isn't universally good and the last couple of seasons were dreadful, but it had moments of gravitas. Firefly has heart and the #bants Buffyesque JW dialogue now prevalent in Marvel movies etc. My issue with the Expanse and Mandalorian is simply that they have no wit or verve and the acting in most cases is stilted, unnatural and fairly crude. Obviously both the Expanse and Mandalorian have good points, but if at the core of a show you don't have a soul then you're just watching it out of loyalty to it as a fan of science fiction (or a scifi franchise). I have similar issues with Star Trek Discovery. Compare that to The Orville (once it got past the dick jokes phase). Also, I don't know, off the top of my head.... er... Fringe for example, which never took itself too seriously. I'm not saying all scifi has to be comedy riot or shy away from being austere and serious (I love the movie Arrival for example and love high concept scifi) but for a TV show I think you need to have some sort of heart and soul to it. Mandalorian doesn't no matter how hard people pretend a cuddly Yoda is the answer. 

 

But yes, to each their own. And there's no denying some of the shots in it are beautiful. 

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I've really enjoyed the Mandalorian (as a former Star Wars fan who couldn't really care less nowadays) but yeah, I can't say I find many of the characters particularly relatable, and the casual regard for human life becomes a little wearing. I think it was just that one small bit in season 1 with two mean off-duty stormtroopers talking crap where I actually felt a vague human connection with a character.

 

One your first point there,  @cavalcade , I'm up to the third series of Blake's 7 and that's a great example of what you do when you can't really afford to have sweeping shots of spacecraft and planets - you get great dialogue and characters like Avon :wub:

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2 hours ago, cavalcade said:

 

I hadn't thought of that, thanks. 

 

If I stopped watching any scifi TV show that had dialogue worse than Firefly I'd have to stop watching them altogether. The Expanse finally broke me, as that had similar issues with piss poor dialogue, acting and characterisation but didn't have some of the painterly wonder of The Mandalorian (or a lifetime of being a fan of the franchise) to fall back on. So, I'll keep watching it and criticise it if that's OK with you?

 

I need to know your desert island box sets! You can only pick five. You get all the seasons for each show. But that's the lot for the rest of your life.

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I like The Mandalorian. It's a bit stilted but it's continually improving in that respect, and it's gently, ever so gently, erasing the Abrams vision of SW with the knowledge of Filoni and the nous of Favreau.

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3 hours ago, cavalcade said:

 

I hadn't thought of that, thanks. 

 

If I stopped watching any scifi TV show that had dialogue worse than Firefly I'd have to stop watching them altogether. The Expanse finally broke me, as that had similar issues with piss poor dialogue, acting and characterisation but didn't have some of the painterly wonder of The Mandalorian (or a lifetime of being a fan of the franchise) to fall back on. So, I'll keep watching it and criticise it if that's OK with you?

A lifetime fan of Star Wars should find more to enjoy in the Mandalorian than you seem to... If i disliked it as much then I'd just stop watching. I presume you have seen the whole lot now? 

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I would also say that Star Wars has never been about the great dialogue unless you count such classic lines as "I hate sand" or "Nooooooo!" and the characters, whilst great, are all your typical stereotypes.

 

Ultimately Its all about the pew pew's and the vrum vrum of a lightsaber but that's just me.

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