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3 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Aren't mobile connections worse for latency?

 

I would have said so, but I do wonder how many people have ditched a landline for using their mobile to stream things like Netflix. A friend of mine has done just that and while not a gamer I wonder who Stadia is aimed at if not people who don't have consoles or a gaming pc?

 

I'm most likely wrong (about the market, not the  mobile internet thing. That'd most likely too shit for streaming Stadia) but I'm surprised as many people on here were taken with Stadias premise as there were.

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20 minutes ago, moosegrinder said:

 

As far as I'm aware in this country it is still very much a thing. Not many services offer actual unlimited data and the ones that do still aren't cheap. 

 

Here's a question: can you play this over your mobile data internet and what's the quality like? Because there seems to be more 'unlimited' data plans on phones than for the home these days, and would companies like 3 and Gift Gaff stuff offer that if their services offered the quality to use up that kind of bandwidth?


they’re all subject to reasonable use, already struggle massively in areas of high contention, have higher latency and (presumably) more packet loss: things you can compensate for with video streaming just by buffering.

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I think it’s much more of an issue in the US where the broadband providers don’t really compete with each other. They often are the only option and pretty much everyone has a data cap. 

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Billing this as a premium service was not the way to go with this if they wanted this launch to be positive PR for streaming in general. Nobody likes trying to figure out why their ISP, router, or whatever is suddenly not quite working right and it's a poor complement to a luxury 4K 60 fps games console you have to rent indefinitely.

 

From the beginning I wondered how they would square that circle, presuming that the high end demos were just a way to earn their bonafides and they'd play up the convenience angle later. That it's honestly the look they wanted for the service at launch, when they're going to set people's expectations is baffling to me.

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10 hours ago, Dave White said:

Pc Gamer

 

All those doubts went away when I tried playing Destiny 2 on the same limited bandwidth that had worked well for Gylt, 35 Mbps. The pixelation and stuttering made it hard to see and aim, and I often found myself trying to compensate for the lag by moving less. Stadia is just like all the other cloud gaming platforms I've tried: Often great for singleplayer games, terrible for multiplayer if your internet isn't up to snuff.

 

Google Standstill

How did this go so wrong? I can’t believe that a small company like Shadow can come up with a better implementation than a multi-billion dollar company. I play on a WiFi connection at my parents-in-law-law with a 30mb and play battlefield 5 with it keeping pace just fine. I guess they’ve been in the marketplace a lot longer so have nailed their streaming tech. Saying that, whilst they’ll soon be updating all their hardware to RTX 2080’s, it’s still not going to be as smooth as playing locally regardless. I’m still planning on investing on a gaming PC at some point in the future as a streaming 4K 60fps can no way match up to 4K 60fps+ locally.

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She goes on about SunRay as some unique marvel, despite there being Citrix thin clients doing heavy duty office work around the start of the millennium, but her point about the user story being non-existent is a good one.

 

For me, it's even simpler than being concerned about user story: they needed to copy Youtibe's IaaS model: launch completely free with all features enabled, make it the pre-eminent service people rely on, slowly degrade and erode the service over time, then add back the good stuff at premium tier. It's a classic for a reason! Expect to see it happen to Game Pass in the next few years.

 

Spoiler

:(

 

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Oh my LOL. Paying full price to stream the worst version of RDR2... how enticing, someone please hold my wallet because this offer is too good I won't be able to control myself. 

 

And 30FPS for 'artistic reasons', really? Even if the PC version of RDR2 didn't just come out which runs just fine in 60FPS, that's such obvious bullshit.

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That was a consistent message in the Digital Foundry review too - the 10 TFLOPS capabilities of the cloud console are nowhere to be seen, for whatever reason.

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Sounds like a bit of a mess, doesn’t it? Fair play to all the people telling me it would be earlier in the thread.

 

What I don’t understand is why these companies are pursuing it, if it obviously doesn’t work. People keep saying xcloud is going to win, but how can it if it’s fundamentally broken as a concept?

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I think Google, from current evidence, are fucking it up on the product side. It's come up a lot, but there are decent use cases for streaming. A lot of them are as a complementary service - so I normally play my games on my local device at home, but the saves sync to the cloud and therefore I can still play a slightly worse version of the game when I'm away, or travelling or whatever.

 

I think they might be choosing bad games to show it off also. Why would you pay a sub plus £50 to play a worse-looking, laggier version of RDR2? But a version of COD where no-one can cheat and everyone has a consistent connection might well be an improvement over the local model.

 

And then, I think Nate upthread already talks about the ways in which it could be transformational - seeing the ad for the game, or your favourite streamer playing it, and instantly being able to open that game up in a new tab and just start playing it could be a huge change.

 

But a: it's not quite ready yet (if it ever will be) and b: I suspect for the foreseeable future it's complementary rather than replacement. the XCloud/PS Now services seem to understand this a little better. Google isn't great at consumer product management.

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It's clearly not a must have product at the moment, that's for sure.

 

I think you're right about it being to be a complimentary service... At least for now. Whether or not it'll take in really not sure. I like the idea of being able to pick up a game and playing it absolutely everywhere, but in reality o rarely do it. Quite honestly I spend so much time on my pc I'm rather happy go out in the world and spend a bit of time without the distractions!

 

He says... Drinking coffee in a cafe, whilst tapping away on his phone ;)

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3 hours ago, Hitcher said:

Is that a problem these days?

 

Well, it's 5 or 6 MB/s solid for an hour, so that alone is going to make it unusable for the vast majority of people in this country. Plus it's not just that alone, it's then throwing this successfully around your internal network over wifi or whatever. And potentially with competing services running at the same time, Netflix, Spotify round the house and so on, it all adds up. Be alright if you're on a decent cable deal with a good powerline or mesh setup, obviously.

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1 minute ago, Cool Ben said:

Am I right in thinking that every Google product has failed apart from the browser and website/search engine?

 

No. The track record is shit, but it's not that shit.

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2 minutes ago, Cool Ben said:

Am I right in thinking that every Google product has failed apart from the browser and website/search engine?

 

I mean, obviously not. Android does pretty well, the Google office replacements, Drive, Gmail, Maps, they've done pretty well with that small video sharing site since they bought it, Chromebooks are very popular. etc.

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3 minutes ago, stefcha said:

 

No. The track record is shit, but it's not that shit.

oh, yeah, forgot about Chrome books, they do ok

 

1 minute ago, Uncle Mike said:

 

I mean, obviously not. Android does pretty well, the Google office replacements, Drive, Gmail, Maps, they've done pretty well with that small video sharing site since they bought it, Chromebooks are very popular. etc.

 

Durrr, of course, i forgot about those really important and very successful things that I use everyday without fail.  What a dummy.

OK, I was meaning more about hardware, like google glasses.

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It feels like trying to sell this as some kind of 4K/60fps supercomputer is probably the wrong way to go about it, as it’s competing on the area that it feels weakest. It’s like trying to sell people wi-fi in 2004 by arguing that it’s as fast as wired internet (sometimes), when you should really be focusing on the fact that your computer isn’t even plugged into anything WTF, as that’s your main differentiator.

 

Like Nate says, they should have had adverts showing someone opening a tab on their browser and playing a game immediately, or them watching a stream and then taking control of the actual game. Try doing that on the massive chunk of black plastic that lives under your TV, grandad! What else have you got in that museum you live in? A hi-fi? DVDs? A landline phone?!

 

But then again, both of those functions are probably scheduled for Q4 2020, so they probably can’t advertise them now.

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14 minutes ago, Cool Ben said:

Am I right in thinking that every Google product has failed apart from the browser and website/search engine?

 

9 minutes ago, Cool Ben said:

OK, I was meaning more about hardware, like google glasses.

 

Come on.

 

They've got loads of failures under their belt for sure. But at least try and maintain a thought from one post to the next.

 

Stadia's not even a hardware product, at the core.

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Thanks Mike. Yeah, I can understand it as a complementary service, but I just wonder whether it’ll ever really gain traction due to the latency/lag. It seems like something that can’t ever be overcome, even if a totally new broadband infrastructure is eventually put in place. It really does sound like a dead end from these early impressions. Google launching it as their main and only service seems especially stupid, and that’s without all the negativity they’re getting from the botched launch.

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3 minutes ago, Uncle Mike said:

 

 

Come on.

 

They've got loads of failures under their belt for sure. But at least try and maintain a thought from one post to the next.

 

Sorry Mike, I will try harder to meet your posting requirements in the future.  

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17 minutes ago, Cool Ben said:

Am I right in thinking that every Google product has failed apart from the browser and website/search engine?

 

Yeh, Android has been an unmitigated disaster.

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I just don't trust that Google will be willing to work out Stadia's problems if doesn't start reasonably strong & head upwards from there, which is even more of an issue if you're bought full-price software from them that only works on that service.

 

Of course, Google is welcome to prove me wrong & make me eat my words.  I'll keep my napkin, knife & fork ready, just in case.

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45 minutes ago, JPL said:

Sounds like a bit of a mess, doesn’t it? Fair play to all the people telling me it would be earlier in the thread.

 

What I don’t understand is why these companies are pursuing it, if it obviously doesn’t work. People keep saying xcloud is going to win, but how can it if it’s fundamentally broken as a concept?

 

XCloud seems to be being pushed as a complementary service, though, to work alongside your Xbox. Not the only option.

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I keep thinking about how last month PS Now streaming seemed pointless to me (I just don’t play enough games to benefit from the AYCE collection but that’s another issue) until I noticed they had MGS4 on there. I used the free trial but would’ve happily shelled out £8.99 for a month of Now to play that because no convenient alternative exists. That’s transformative. On the back of that I could see myself firing up XCloud in the future to play Xbox exclusives without shelling out for an extra console, like using a Now TV pass to watch some prestige show without getting a Sky box. It’s such an obvious selling point and so easy to communicate.

 

So what did Google go with for their launch fanfare? Literally nothing.

 

Visual quality is always a hard thing to sell people on as it’s so hard to communicate in web videos and so inherently woolly. And yet that’s their day one pitch for the service, to the point that they’ve almost purposefully chosen a launch line-up and feature set that nobody could care about in and of itself. There’s nothing else to discuss. And even in graphical quality they’ve dropped the ball.

 

It’s a technical marvel and a marketing train wreck. They should have called this an alpha preview or something.

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7 minutes ago, Fused gamer said:

 

Yeh, Android has been an unmitigated disaster.

Try and keep up, I have already been barated for that!

 

I had a brain fart, it happens, blame my children!!

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It'll be a bit of a shame if they screw this up. Their big product demonstration (whenever that was) had features that I thought looked properly transformational and new. I recall feeling pretty positive about it then. That whole idea where someone is watching their favourite streamer play whatever massively online game is popular, then press a button and suddenly you're not just playing that game - but in that session, playing with your favourite person. The seamless switching from TV to phone and back.

 

And then what they have launched with is, at best, worse versions of games that don't take advantage of the platform or its technologies at all. Bizarre.

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The thing is, Google are uniquely placed to be able to take advantage of that as well because they own Youtube. What are Microsoft going to do to compete with that - have a seamless handover with games on Mixer? You may as well offer a seamless handover with Zune. Amazing that they thought the way to sell this would be to have the worst version of RDR2 for $100, Dawn of the Rise of the Revenge of the Tomb Raider, Rage 2, Farming Simulator 2019, a handful of other games from the period 2014 - 2018,  and I don't know, have some Google PR replicant on Reddit offering to hand-deliver the controller to people's houses.

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