Google Stadia

[footle]

 

 

 

original post

Spoiler

So, those streaming consoles that are coming right?

 

Assassins Creed Odessey, Chrome, 1080p60. The interest being less that it can be done than that one of the few companies with the infrastructure to really go at it is trialling it

 

http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2018/10/01/google-announces-project-stream-which-lets-you-stream-games-in-chrome

 

[carlospie]

How does this voodoo shit even work? Do they have thousands of pcs set up? 

[JPickford]

Magic Cloud Processing.

[hub2]

Excellent! As long as this is perfected in time for Cyberpunk 2077.

 

I wonder how much they'll charge? Or if they'll support Steam in the long run. I can see Valve offering the same service in the long run.

[Hass]

Seems like this is finally happening, what with this being heavily rumored to be part of the next Xbox offering n'all. 

[hub2]

It's inevitable Amazon will get into this space too.

 

MS have Azure, Google has Google Cloud, Amazon have AWS. Also: https://www.amazongames.com/

 

And then one of them will white-label it so Sony/AB/UBI/EA can create their own services. Not sure Nintendo would do it for a while.

[joffocakes]

Latency is the big issue that puts me off this sort of thing so it's good that responsiveness is one of the main things Google mention. OnLive and PSNow were terrible for action-oriented games.

 

Wasn't there some talk of Microsoft researching an input lag solution where the players actions are predicted by AI? I think it was discussed at E3. I wonder if Google's approach is similar?

[TehStu]

Azure, AWS, and Google's stuff carpet the world, right? I assume they'll think up some magic beans to figure out the rest. We've been trending toward this for so long that it doesn't surprise me this is where another player would choose to step in.

[Fallows]

1 hour ago, joffocakes said:

Latency is the big issue that puts me off this sort of thing so it's good that responsiveness is one of the main things Google mention. OnLive and PSNow were terrible for action-oriented games.

 

It's a sad fact that the great majority of console people don't care about latency, nor do they play games where it would be noticeable anyway. You could probably get away with up to 140ms before it becomes an issue, maybe even higher than that if you were to ask someone like Ubisoft.

 

For those of us that do care we're such a small minority that we simply aren't worth catering for.

 

Not once have I seen anyone ask about the latency on the NeoGeo mini, as an example, and that's what you'd expect to be a bit of specialist kit.

 

I wonder how many people actually set their TVs to Game Mode?

 

I don't trust that AI solution either. It'll probably make everything control like Geralt from Witcher 3. Absolutely no use for playing Dudley mix-ups.

[Liamness]

I don't even like home streaming as far as latency is concerned. I've tried Steam Link / Gamestream over powerline ethernet and wifi - neither was good enough. You really feel any dropped packets, I think you'd need a fibre connection right into your home for it to be realistic. I think it'll be a good option for those lucky enough to have really solid internet and network setups, though.

 

If it's browser based then I hope they extend support beyond Chrome. Google have too often not bothered supporting, or offered degraded support, for platforms other than their own. People making websites that only work well on one browser, and the other browsers having to reverse engineer this functionality or else lose market share, is reminiscent of the situation with IE that Firefox and Chrome thankfully disrupted.

[Jebs Votes]

3 hours ago, carlospie said:

How does this voodoo shit even work? Do they have thousands of pcs set up? 

 

Nanomachines.

[Nequests]

The industry should be focused on extending the reach of games to new markets around the world, but is more intent on narrowing their audience to some fibre-connected elite that they can bleed dry with loot boxes and the like. 

 

I'm sure enthusiasts everywhere will embrace it as it's sold to them under the guise of convenience, but I'm not among them.

[footle]

2 hours ago, Nequests said:

The industry should be focused on extending the reach of games to new markets around the world, but is more intent on narrowing their audience to some fibre-connected elite that they can bleed dry with loot boxes and the like. 

 

I'm sure enthusiasts everywhere will embrace it as it's sold to them under the guise of convenience, but I'm not among them.

 

I think streaming is far more likely to extend reach than another games console.

everyone has a web browser, everyone will end up with 25mbps broadband by default eventually, not everyone will fork out £300 or the local equivalent for a do one thing box to go beneath a tv they won’t have.

[simms]

I don’t want this 

[Phil]

1 hour ago, footle said:

 

I think streaming is far more likely to extend reach than another games console.

everyone has a web browser, everyone will end up with 25mbps broadband by default eventually, not everyone will fork out £300 or the local equivalent for a do one thing box to go beneath a tv they won’t have.

 

On a long enough timeline sure, but how long realistically? My Dad lives in a village a few miles from me and can get about 8mb tops. I can get 300mb and have had access to NTL/Virgin's top speeds for a decade.

[Nequests]

Exactly. They're in such a hurry to push this stuff through because it hands them absolute control, but right now it's not even going to work for significant numbers of people in the richest, most developed nations on the planet. 

 

Wonder what happens to the likes of modding and emulation when this takes hold? Bet it ain't good news.

[RubberJohnny]

4 hours ago, Nequests said:

The industry should be focused on extending the reach of games to new markets around the world, but is more intent on narrowing their audience to some fibre-connected elite

 

Mate, have you seen 5G speeds? This is about making it so you don't need a $400 box, expanding the industry to the billions in emerging markets who only have phones.

[JPickford]

Latency and Bandwidth are different things.  "Faster" (higher bandwidth) internet is not going to help with lag.  If you can play Netflix movies you have enough bandwidth for this crap. Lag isn't going to go away.

[jonamok]

What dictates lag?

[RubberJohnny]

Is latency any more of an issue for streaming than for than existing games run on a server? They have to send out updates and receive returns from the user through the internet infrastructure just like streams, and yet Destiny or the Division still play like regular AAA games.

 

Surely the only difference here is the bandwidth? Instead of sending a few kilobytes of updates, you're sending a 1080p 60fps video, essentially.

[JPickford]

Bandwidth is irrelevant.

 

Destiny & Division have local clients so they feel responsive.  There is lag on decisions (who died etc.) but that can be hidden quite well.

[JPickford]

12 minutes ago, jonamok said:

What dictates lag?

 

Physical distance from the server.

[footle]

14 minutes ago, jonamok said:

What dictates lag?

 

speed of light through the medium used to transfer the signal; some processing/repeater activity at each end.

[RubberJohnny]

22 minutes ago, JPickford said:

Destiny & Division have local clients so they feel responsive.

 

But couldn't you just decouple the inputs to client side as a thin client that just gets removed once the stream is finished? I mean, if you're transmitting 1080p and 60fps, it's only going to be as much data as the first few seconds of the stream, if that.

 

22 minutes ago, JPickford said:

There is lag on decisions (who died etc.) but that can be hidden quite well.

 

Can't you just hide it quite well with the other things? That they haven't been done so far is because the tech isn't common yet, and it was unnecessary.

[Uncle Mike]

Even in Destiny, lag is very evident at times (to the frequent complaints of those playing.) Enemies skip round the map, recharge their health, resurrect themselves in the worst cases, in PvP shots land through walls and round corners.

[Cool Ben]

2 hours ago, Phil said:

 

On a long enough timeline sure, but how long realistically? My Dad lives in a village a few miles from me and can get about 8mb tops. I can get 300mb and have had access to NTL/Virgin's top speeds for a decade.

 

I don't understand your argument.  I want a new 911 but I can't afford one, should Porsche stop making them then?

 

Why does it need to be accessible to everyone?

[JPickford]

12 minutes ago, RubberJohnny said:

 

But couldn't you just decouple the inputs to client side as a thin client that just gets removed once the stream is finished? I mean, if you're transmitting 1080p and 60fps, it's only going to be as much data as the first few seconds of the stream, if that.

 

 

Can't you just hide it quite well with the other things? That they haven't been done so far is because the tech isn't common yet, and it was unnecessary.

 

What client?  We're talking about video streaming a game aren't we?

[RubberJohnny]

4 minutes ago, JPickford said:

What client?  We're talking about video streaming a game aren't we?

 

Yeah, but all these apps or whatever still have minimum system requirements. There's still something on the client end, even if it's just a web plugin. Surely you could just have that take your inputs so they only have to go the one way and then you've got no difference from an average multiplayer game.

 

9 minutes ago, Uncle Mike said:

Enemies skip round the map, recharge their health, resurrect themselves in the worst cases

 

Most are these are design decisions with how MMOs handle things to stop players from kiting enemies around the map, or stop the world being depopulated. They're obviously "gamey", but they're not bugs or lag.

[stefcha]

5 minutes ago, Cool Ben said:

I don't understand your argument.  I want a new 911 but I can't afford one, should Porsche stop making them then?

 

 Why does it need to be accessible to everyone?

 

That's such a stupid analogy; fact is it wouldn't be accessible to a hell of a lot of people who can actually play games via traditional means right now. And even though I fit in the "it'll work for me" demographic, I'd be fine with it being a choice and much less so with it being the only option even for my own use. Every single game where it's technically impossible with current infrastructure restraints to get my inputs from the controller, to the box, to the server, processed and back again with the sort of low latency we're currently afforded? Nah. 

[Uncle Mike]

2 minutes ago, RubberJohnny said:

Most are these are design decisions with how MMOs handle things to stop players from kiting enemies around the map, or stop the world being depopulated. They're obviously "gamey", but they're not bugs or lag.

 

No, these are lag issues. Talk to anyone who plays the game, and they'll tell you the same.