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Star Trek: Picard - 'Best Trek Ever' says everyone

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Yeah, this was good. Not least because of the reunion, but the other parts weren't particularly daft or silly.

 

I did like Dr Agnes' seemingly slow realisation that...

 

Spoiler

The Romulan was tracking them too easily... And that was probably because of her... But Star Fleet gave her the tracking device... but if that was a deception, what about the other things she was shown and finally what about Maddox.

 

I think it's likely that the Vulcan showed her what she wanted her to see, then used that tracker to effect her brain as well. Her killing of Maddox suddenly becomes clearer and more sensical if she was under the influence of some nasty Romulan tech.

 

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1 hour ago, Gordzilla said:

 

they had to make more because the first lot got burnt.

 

Only one tomato slice! And HOURS passed!

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I could do without modern tv's penchant showing someone upchucking quite honestly.  No need for that at all.

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Spoiler

Completely reinforced how much I've come to love Riker after watching TNG as an adult. Frakes just has effortless charisma. I wondered about what became of Tom Riker in this series too- I'm sure his wasn't a happy ending at the hands of the Cardassians. I'm not sure I buy Thad's death though- with B4 in storage at the Daystrom Institute, I could see the old crew rallying and getting access to the positronic matrix they needed to save him, one way or another.

 

It felt galling to see Hugh killed off by that ridiculous, wooden Romulan. Quite annoyed by that outcome.

 

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2 hours ago, davidcotton said:

I could do without modern tv's penchant showing someone upchucking quite honestly.  No need for that at all.


It always looks so rubbish to boot. The gentle little discrete mouthful of prepared sugar water screen vomit and small mouth wipe doesn’t look anything like an actual upchucking session.

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52 minutes ago, DeciderVT said:
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Completely reinforced how much I've come to love Riker after watching TNG as an adult. Frakes just has effortless charisma. I wondered about what became of Tom Riker in this series too- I'm sure his wasn't a happy ending at the hands of the Cardassians. I'm not sure I buy Thad's death though- with B4 in storage at the Daystrom Institute, I could see the old crew rallying and getting access to the positronic matrix they needed to save him, one way or another.

 

It felt galling to see Hugh killed off by that ridiculous, wooden Romulan. Quite annoyed by that outcome.

 

 

The illness was a bit puzzling...

 

Surely you can have an active positronic matrix but with no actual autonomy. Just keep the cultures under tight security, and grant an exemption to the synthetic ban under medical grounds. I doubt the Federation would let people die just for the sake of throwing the baby out with the bath water.

 

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10 minutes ago, Garibaldi said:

 

The illness was a bit puzzling...

 

 

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Surely you can have an active positronic matrix but with no actual autonomy. Just keep the cultures under tight security, and grant an exemption to the synthetic ban under medical grounds. I doubt the Federation would let people die just for the sake of throwing the baby out with the bath water.

 

 

 

Probably another allegory to the current political climate. Both Trump and Johnson would gladly let their grandparents die to further their own personal ambitions.

 

I loved Picard's line to Riker about the current crew having more baggage than the TNG crew ever did. I took that as an almost 4th wall-breaking reference to the writers room.

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38 minutes ago, drmick said:

 

 

Probably another allegory to the current political climate. Both Trump and Johnson would gladly let their grandparents die to further their own personal ambitions.

 

I loved Picard's line to Riker about the current crew having more baggage than the TNG crew ever did. I took that as an almost 4th wall-breaking reference to the writers room.

 

I suspected that was it. The Federation’s inexplicable lean towards populism continues apace, I guess. 

 

That line made me chuckle as well. At least one person in the writers’ room realised that you can only give so many characters a tragic past before it becomes vaguely comical. 

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11 hours ago, Eighthours said:


Empty? I would happily watch 10 hours of:

 

 

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Picard and Riker. I was nearly in tears at how fucking lovely it was to see them together again.

 

 

Well, me too - it's the best episode of the season by a country mile - but otherwise we've had 6 episodes of slow-moving, poorly plotted television where nothing very much happens, character development is vague, the most generic of action sci-fi clichés run rampant and everyone just spends their screen time explaining the plot to each other. That seems empty to me, I'm afraid.

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7 hours ago, Jg15 said:

Nope, he actually said Kzinti, a cat like people who have only appeared in the old 70's Animated Trek and who are actually a creation of Sci Fi Author Larry Niven. It was a cool reference and one I certainly wasn't expecting (for license reasons).

 

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Kzinti?mobile-app=false

 

I recognised that alien name from Ringworld (and I've heard of Niven's Man-Kzin Wars books, but haven't read any of them), and I thought it was odd that Star Trek would share an alien species name with another famous SF setting. I didn't know that Niven and the Kzinti had a connection to the animated series! Further down that wiki page, there's a quote (unsourced! :hmm:) from Michael Chabon, saying that he asked Niven permission to mention them in the new episode of Picard.

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Ok fair's fair episode 6 was pretty good and then episode 7 was the best so far and starting to feel like it is going in a better direction overall. The characters are mostly either growing on me or at least irritating me less.

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@Mr Ben

 

Spoiler

And Elrond being stuck on the stupid cube of course was just a massive waste of time, as now they'll have to go back and rescue him, somehow, which will probably be another episode in itself

 

It's going to be so, so much worse than that. 

 

Spoiler

High said something about awesome power in the Queen's room. 

Old Trek would have just let the cube be a thing. 

 

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2 hours ago, kensei said:

@Mr Ben

 

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And Elrond being stuck on the stupid cube of course was just a massive waste of time, as now they'll have to go back and rescue him, somehow, which will probably be another episode in itself

 

It's going to be so, so much worse than that. 

 

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High said something about awesome power in the Queen's room. 

Old Trek would have just let the cube be a thing. 

 

Having seen the teaser trailer, yeah I know it involves

Spoiler

Seven getting hooked up to the cube in some way. The key chain with the distress signal on it that Elrond picked up was from the rangers, so thats where Seven comes in.

 

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On 06/03/2020 at 11:21, Thor said:

Also, the best part of the entire series so far was in tonight's episode. 

 

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Troi reacting to the realisation that Picard's illness has sadly progressed, and Picard reacting in kind. No words, just reactions from two actors who know each other and their characters inside out. A textbook display of "show, don't tell". 

 

 

Another show don't tell moment

I was wonder where Deanna and Riker's son was until the moment Troi showed Picard to his room. The slight pause at the door and flicker of sadness gave it away.

 

What I've found challenging about Picard and what I've loved is his failings, this is not the grand diplomat of old and there's been several moments in this where he's been inadvertently cruel or awful to the point where I've started to understand Raffi's hesitation with joining up with him again.

 

It wasn't just nostalgia that made this my favourite episode so far, it's the recognition that time can shape people both in good ways and ill.

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On 07/03/2020 at 11:16, Harsin said:


It always looks so rubbish to boot. The gentle little discrete mouthful of prepared sugar water screen vomit and small mouth wipe doesn’t look anything like an actual upchucking session.

 

If it's not Problem Child 2, I'm not interested.

 

 

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Thaddeus was Riker's middle name in the novels I think before the show came out with Thomas.

 

EDIT: actually it was Thelonius....

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28 minutes ago, drmick said:

Thaddeus was Riker's middle name in the novels I think before the show came out with Thomas.

 

EDIT: actually it was Thelonius....

 

It was one of his ancestors names, the one saved by Q(uinn) in Voy's Death Wish. 

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Yep, I posted about how the Inner Light made Picard experience having children earlier in the thread @Lorfarius.

 

The new series is rubbish in a lot of ways. Its a bit heartbreaking to see our favourite characters like this.

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Now I want a post episode discussion/dissection show like Game of Thrones had. Would be hilarious watching Kurtzman and Chabon spinning in circles; trying to justify it all and unwittingly contradicting lore left and right. 

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This was basically Troi’s episode. She was great. Riker was fine I guess. The rest was pish, with loads of clunky writing and daft plotting. But Sirtis absolutely owned it.

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Kurtzman's an idiot with no awareness whatsoever of the transcendental appeal of Star Trek. 

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On 07/03/2020 at 21:48, kensei said:

 

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High said something about awesome power in the Queen's room. 

Old Trek would have just let the cube be a thing. 

 

 

I heard the line, but didn't twig the implications until now. Oh god you're going to be right :(

 

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5 minutes ago, Hexx said:

 

I heard the line, but didn't twig the implications until now. Oh god you're going to be right :(

 

 

I definitely twigged it, still not sure of the significance but that line, coupled with it having to be an ex-borg coupled with the Seven of Nine calling buzzer thingy definitely gave away the direction of the next few episodes. 

 

I agree that Sirtis/Troi was the stand out performer of the episode, which is amazing since she was never the strongest of the original ensemble. It really got me the bit where she's wanting to help Picard but is obviously concerned about her daughter.  The 'I'm not as brave as I use to be' being a very understandable reaction to whatever shit Picard has brought to their door. 

 

Frakes was great as Riker and really makes you want to know more of what happened to him on the Titan and thereafter.  They put him a line about him still be on reserve duty, whether or not that is meant to specifically play off later this season or just giving them possibilities down the line is anyone's guess. 

 

I was pissed at Hugh's death.  Another example of a passable actor in TNG becoming much better with age. It seemed cheap and a complete waste of a really interesting character.  If they wanted that character off the board they should have done it in a non-lethal way, perhaps going with Picard to reunite with Riker and Troi would have been interesting. Sure, we need to give Seven motivation but we already had the cheap death of Icheb, we didn't need any further deaths. 

 

Overall, a really good episode although it shows that the show is working best when leaning into its TNG history and is not really firing on all cylinders with the new additions. Also, I hope they have some guest star surprises, everyone so far has been revealed in the pre season trailers. Would be good to have a surprise TNG/DS9/VOY appearance (I'd put money on current age Spiner appearing as synthetic older Data when they reach the home planet). 

 

Hopefully the positive reaction to all the old characters can convince CBS to give us a proper ship show with a few more of the older cast members in attendance. 

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54 minutes ago, McCoy said:

Hopefully the positive reaction to all the old characters can convince CBS to give us a proper ship show with a few more of the older cast members in attendance. 

 

But why would the actors do it? They've earned so much from the show that they pretty much never have to work again - filming episodic television is a massive slog. I would absolutely love there to be a proper Next Gen sequel but I can't see it happening.

 

I think we have to hope for the Pike show to be episodic rather than story arc based. It's amazing how I've 180'd on this. At the time of TNG/DS9, I was so excited whenever one episode linked into another, and really wanted Trek to do serialised storytelling like Babylon 5 was doing. Now, though, having been revisiting TNG, it's so bloody nice to have individual episodes with a beginning, middle and end. I can see it all coming full circle in the end. There was a good thread on Twitter about this from Javier Grillo-Marxauch, who was a writer on Lost Seasons 1 and 2 and hosts the popular Children of Tendu podcast which talks about how to get into screenwriting:

 

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21 minutes ago, Eighthours said:

 

But why would the actors do it? They've earned so much from the show that they pretty much never have to work again - filming episodic television is a massive slog. I would absolutely love there to be a proper Next Gen sequel but I can't see it happening.

 

I think some of the actors did very well and most of the actors are comfortable but there is a reason a lot of them still appear at regularly at conventions to tell the same story for the 200th time and that is because a lot of them did not get much work after Trek and conventions provide a good income. 

 

Sure, some may not want to or may not need to but I'm not sure they are all living the multimillionaire lifestyle. Facts are hard to come by but it is suggested that Stewart and Mulgrew earned $45,000 and $60,000 respectively per episode with the rest of the cast probably earning significantly less. Let's say the rest of the cast were on $20,000 an episode that is around $3,300,000 over the course of the series.  Good money to be sure, but you have to take tax off that, agent fees etc. which probably puts it down to a net $2,000,000 over the course of the series.  None of them are starving but equally I'm not sure many of them would be too quick to turn down additional income. Frakes was on record as saying that directing for Discovery and Picard was really financially helpful as it put his daughter through college. 

 

Plus, it is not like we'd be likely to go back to the days of 26 episodes a year.  10-15 episodes, which is becoming more common, is much more manageable for most actors. 

 

Having said that, the TNG as an ensemble are probably not about to solely anchor a new show completely but a combination of TNG/DS9 and VOY could be possible. 

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11 hours ago, jonamok said:

This was basically Troi’s episode. She was great. Riker was fine I guess. The rest was pish, with loads of clunky writing and daft plotting. But Sirtis absolutely owned it.

 

At last, after all these years, a good Troi episode!  :lol:

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