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Star Trek: Picard - 'Best Trek Ever' says everyone

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That was a much better episode, if you take out the Rafi scenes then it was an excellent one. Even the usually dull scenes on the artifact were good. My memory is terrible these days, last night there were 2 moments what made me go "WUT" but this morning I can't remember what they were. I can only remember the bits I liked, which is a stark contrast to the previous 2 episodes where I could only remember the bits I didn't like.

 

I feel like there is a clear direction for the plot now, the loose ends are falling into place. I'm looking forward to the next episode. 

 

See, Thread Owner, it's not always negative *winkey smiley*

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8 hours ago, Mr Ben said:

Oh ffs. The Romulans are definitely going to be heavily involved with, if not be the creators of, the Borg, especially after that revelation they can treat borg implants better than anyone else.

 

I would not be a fan of such a development since it just makes the whole galaxy seem a lot smaller.  I like the fact that the Borg simple originated in the Delta Quadrant and gradually started probing the alpha quadrant. 

 

That being said, could the Romulans being behind the Borg make any kind of logical/internal sense? It is hard to see how it would.  Prior to the end of S1 of TNG it is said that the Romulans have been pre-occupied with other matters but that timeframe would not seemingly be correct for the Borg which were established as operating in the Delta quadrant in Season 2 of Enterpirse. 

 

For it to work, it would surely have to go far back into the past history of the Romulan empire to make the timeline viable although given that the Borg themselves possess time travel technology that could be used to hand wave some issues.

 

Still, it is a needlessly complicated stretch to retcon Romulan involvement into the Borg, a concept which has never before been hinted at before Picard (I recall Voyager featured assimilated Vulcans and Romulans without any assimilation issues). 

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3 hours ago, Ivanho said:


Except, and I know this is a bit hand wavey, he was only a Borg for a few hours so maybe it was easier to remove than from someone who had been for years.

 

(Yes, I’ve seen ST FC, yes I know the crew were assimilated in seconds and had to be shot, oh dear God, I’ve been drawn into a rabbit hole argument  :facepalm:

 

I assume FC is simply because it is a battle situation.  It seems that on a case by case basis in ideal conditions a Borg assimilation can be reversed.  The problem in a battle situation is that you a) don't have the time or conditions to do so and b) every assimilation that you allow to be completed results in one more enemy to deal with. 

 

I too also think there would be a difference between Borg assimilated as children or having being assimilated for a long time vs assimilated for a matter of hours. 

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Regarding Rafi, I thought she was a lot better in last night's episode. My main problem was the daft as fuck ending with Space Legolas. 

Spoiler

 

Why didn't he just go through the fucking portal?

 

"Can you hold them off?" Hold who off, Picard? There's no-one fucking there!

 

"I can hear them coming", that's great Soji, but we can't, so they're clearly fucking nowhere near you, Spegolas, get in the portal with Picard and Soji. 

 

"Can you hold them off?" Not you as well, Hugh? THERE'S NO ONE FUCKING THERE, AND YOU'VE ALREADY CLOSED THE FUCKING DOOR CONCEALING THE FUCKING PORTAL. 

 

:facepalm:

 

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4 hours ago, Ivanho said:


Except, and I know this is a bit hand wavey, he was only a Borg for a few hours so maybe it was easier to remove than from someone who had been for years.

 

Apparently that’s the case. With the massive number of beings the Borg assimilate, I guess they’ve devised a system where the implant is relatively quick to administer but then continues to enmesh with its host’s body over time. So for someone like Seven, she wouldn’t be able to live without them. I think half her brain is supposed to be cybernetic by this point. 

 

Of course, this got complicated a bit when First Contact decided to introduce assimilation tubules/nanobots. I think anyone who gets assimilated with those is basically fucked as their body changes on a molecular level. Being Borg hipsters, however, Picard and Seven were assimilated before it was cool. 

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1 hour ago, McCoy said:

I would not be a fan of such a development since it just makes the whole galaxy seem a lot smaller.  I like the fact that the Borg simple originated in the Delta Quadrant and gradually started probing the alpha quadrant. 

 

The Borg were introduced as an object lesson from Q that the galaxy is big and scary place and you don't know shit, when Picard started acting billy big bollocks. If they do make them some Battlestar Galactica style Romulan project gone wrong then it would be the worst retcon since Sandman killing Uncle Ben.

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44 minutes ago, Garibaldi said:

Being Borg hipsters, however, Picard and Seven were assimilated before it was cool. 

Fucking borgsters. :coffee:

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1 hour ago, Garibaldi said:

Being Borg hipsters, however, Picard and Seven were assimilated before it was cool. 

 

A44s8Ow.jpg

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1 hour ago, Harsin said:

 

The Borg were introduced as an object lesson from Q that the galaxy is big and scary place and you don't know shit, when Picard started acting billy big bollocks. If they do make them some Battlestar Galactica style Romulan project gone wrong then it would be the worst retcon since Sandman killing Uncle Ben.

 

Someone earlier did point out that it's suggested in TNG that they destroyed some outposts near the Romulan Neutral Zone before that event though, so even though it might be shit it wouldn't necessarily be a retcon. Reading up on the background to the episode (The Neutral Zone), it was originally supposed to be a two-parter, with part 2 showing the Federation and the Romulans teaming up against the Borg, but the writer's strike fucked it.

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Just now, Pob said:

 

Someone earlier did point out that it's suggested in TNG that they destroyed some outposts near the Romulan Neutral Zone before that event though, so even though it might be shit it wouldn't necessarily be a retcon. Reading up on the background to the episode (The Neutral Zone), it was originally supposed to be a two-parter, with part 2 showing the Federation and the Romulans teaming up against the Borg, but the writer's strike fucked it.

 

True, and the Romulans did say that they had been busy dealing with internal matters prior to that.

 

The problem is, the Romulans creating the Borg in that space of time (i.e. in the immediate years before the Neutral Zone) does not fit with established canon that they had been operating previously in the Delta Quadrant (in Enterprise, the Borg send a signal to the Delta Quadrant). 

 

It is possible the Romulans created them way back, ala BSG, and then either forgot about them or just kept it all a secret.  It would still be a massive storytelling stretch to support it and all in the aid of a pretty shitty plot development (you know these creepy terrifying unstoppable bad guys, they were actually created by the cousins of the Vulcans). 

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It's not the Star Trek we know and a lot of this is just being handwaved away because general audiences have no idea. The Borg cubes were full of walk ways and small tunnels for them to move around like blood in veins. Not this arm wavey, sock sliding pile sof space they keep showing off.

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It would undermine Q’s lesson in Q Who?, but I think you could easily write something that fits the canon.  

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2 minutes ago, Pob said:

It would undermine Q’s lesson in Q Who?, but I think you could easily write something that fits the canon.  

 

Yeah, it is not impossible.  Particularly if the Romulans created them long in the past. It just seems a bit contrived that it is only now being retconned in. The Borg themselves would have to have forgotten about it since Picard/Seven/Hugh would have known. 

 

One (maybe two) nitpick from the recent episode is that Picard seems largely unaware of the work done by the Borg Reclamation project.  It is unclear if he even knows that Hugh is the director. You would have thought, since he is aware of the Borg Cube and the project is sanctioned by the Federation, that he might have had some passing interest in it considering his history. You could broadly make the same point about why he never sought to meet Seven when she arrived back from the Delta Quadrant. 

 

I was also unsure if him and Hugh are meant to have kept in contact since Descent.  They seem very chummy for two people who on screen have only, briefly, met twice. 

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I'm the first person to say the thousands of alien races only having variants if slightly weird eyebrows etc is stupid but the Borg just being a race that went cybernetic and then the assimilation idea (although being pretty old hat in regards to sci-fi in general terms) is much better for the fact the universe is massive and all sorts of shit goes on. Even if you're committed to doing "origin of the Borg" story in Picard, making them created by the romulans and now  the super secret off shoot (even more secret than the secret tal-shiar) really hates all robots is just silly. There is never a hint in any of the previous star treks that they hate robots that much. I'd have preferred just some other weird race than attempting to tie things together just because of... I dunno, references or something lame. Almost doubly so because they're related to the Vulcans, them being invented by almost any other race would be less silly. Make it the lurians FFS, go crazy! They seem to do weird fan service pandering for fans of the movies and annoy all the people that have watched all of the TV shows. I can only assume people that go to conventions and have had Klingon marriages or whatever must be fucking spitting with rage even in comparison to how much it winds me up. 

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I must admit, I did also laugh at the part of the episode when Raffi having gained the credentials went off to drink and drug herself to death. 

 

Seemed a strange moment for a special rendition of the TNG theme tune. 

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25 minutes ago, b00dles said:

I'm the first person to say the thousands of alien races only having variants if slightly weird eyebrows etc is stupid

 

There's an episode... there always is :lol:

 

 

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3 hours ago, Garibaldi said:

 

Apparently that’s the case. With the massive number of beings the Borg assimilate, I guess they’ve devised a system where the implant is relatively quick to administer but then continues to enmesh with its host’s body over time. So for someone like Seven, she wouldn’t be able to live without them. I think half her brain is supposed to be cybernetic by this point. 

 

Of course, this got complicated a bit when First Contact decided to introduce assimilation tubules/nanobots. I think anyone who gets assimilated with those is basically fucked as their body changes on a molecular level. Being Borg hipsters, however, Picard and Seven were assimilated before it was cool. 


But then you have that episode of Enterprise where they find the remains of the Borg Sphere in Antarctica and then the Doctor gets infected but something something metabolism delays the nanites and then he has a nice radiation bath to kill them off, but because the word Borg is never used it doesn’t link up for the future and blah blah blah.....

 

I have a headache now.  This is why I watch the shows, enjoy them for what they are and don’t comment, it just leads to pain! 

Edited by Ivanho

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3 minutes ago, Lorfarius said:

 

There's an episode... there always is :lol:

 

 

Yeah I know that, it's a good episode but it's not even consistent within that setup. I really like that idea and it's a good cover but the special make up effects people seemingly got bored by voyager and it really was few lumps/ slightly different eyebrows rather than even the ferengi or the benzites etc.

 

Also, for shame to think I'd come in here and throw my weight and opinions around without having seen that episode, tsk! :P

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1 hour ago, Ivanho said:


But then you have that episode of Enterprise where they find the remains of the Borg Sphere in Antarctica and then the Doctor gets infected but something something metabolism delays the nanites and then he has a nice radiation bath to kill them off, but because the word Borg is never used it doesn’t link up for the future and blah blah blah.....

 

 

:lol:

 

Star Trek definitely requires an amount of head-canon and hand-waving at this point. Especially given how careless some of the writers have been with continuity over the years. 

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24 minutes ago, Garibaldi said:

 

:lol:

 

Star Trek definitely requires an amount of head-canon and hand-waving at this point. Especially given how careless some of the writers have been with continuity over the years. 

 

In fairness, the Enterprise episode broadly worked in conjunction with what we saw in First Contact. 

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4 hours ago, Garibaldi said:

 

Apparently that’s the case. With the massive number of beings the Borg assimilate, I guess they’ve devised a system where the implant is relatively quick to administer but then continues to enmesh with its host’s body over time. So for someone like Seven, she wouldn’t be able to live without them. I think half her brain is supposed to be cybernetic by this point. 

 

Of course, this got complicated a bit when First Contact decided to introduce assimilation tubules/nanobots. I think anyone who gets assimilated with those is basically fucked as their body changes on a molecular level. Being Borg hipsters, however, Picard and Seven were assimilated before it was cool. 

And Tuvok, Janeway and B'elanna. As I said, other than Seven, the main cast of any show seems immune to long term implants.

 

The whole Romulans made the Borg thing is just so rubbish. The technology just doesnt add up, neither does the timeline, but because Kurtzman is in charge all that gets thrown out the window. The writers wouldnt know a coherent story if it came up and bit them on the arse at this point.

 

Also @Hexx That video does a far better job showcasing post-supernova Romulans than Picard could hope to achieve. I really want to go back to STO at some point, as they've added a load of new stuff.

 

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Half the crew of voyager becoming Borg for the lolz really undermined the idea that it would be life changing torture to undergo that process.

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One things that’s been puzzling me... so two different species can have sexy time now... humans and Vulcans, humans and romulans etc... so does that mean humans can have sex with animals now, or is it only creatures who can talk?

 

ALSO! At the start when’s he’s looking at pictures and he sees himself as a borg, is it me or does it look like another actor.... and wasn’t the both stuff on the right hand side of his face?? It’s on the left on the photo...

 

still at least Space Legolas gets to play with Space Lionel Messi now....

 

 

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50 minutes ago, PopeSmokesDope said:

One things that’s been puzzling me... so two different species can have sexy time now... humans and Vulcans, humans and romulans etc... so does that mean humans can have sex with animals now, or is it only creatures who can talk?

 

ALSO! At the start when’s he’s looking at pictures and he sees himself as a borg, is it me or does it look like another actor.... and wasn’t the both stuff on the right hand side of his face?? It’s on the left on the photo...

 

still at least Space Legolas gets to play with Space Lionel Messi now....

 

 

Was the camera not just looking through the back of the hologram so it lined up?

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58 minutes ago, PopeSmokesDope said:

One things that’s been puzzling me... so two different species can have sexy time now... humans and Vulcans, humans and romulans etc... so does that mean humans can have sex with animals now, or is it only creatures who can talk?

 

Something, something, Iconians seeded humanoid life in the galaxy with some basic similarities, something, something,

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4 minutes ago, PopeSmokesDope said:


no...

E41C9B6D-27F9-4996-832F-4368AE68320C.jpeg

It does look a bit weird but it must be Stewart. It looks like a simply screen grab from BOBW. It'd be far more difficult to put another actor in make up to get the shot. 

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I love that this thread is now mostly arguments about a possible direction the show might take that would only make sense if the writers knew Star Trek lore backwards but absolutely hated it and wanted to undermine it all. If that doesn’t describe the Trek fanbase’s relationship with the show, what does?

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