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Star Trek: Picard - 'Best Trek Ever' says everyone

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I'd rather we never find out the origin of the Borg. Voyager ruined them enough, they dont need to be shat on as well.

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When you look at some of the BTS from Voyager they basically inherited 2 or 3 fancy First Contact Borg props and milked them for absolutely everything they were worth. I wonder how differently things would have turned out if they were never available.

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You've got to assume Romulan-created synths created the Borg at this point. That's the only setup that makes much sense, unless there's no reason at all Soji's in a Borg cube.

 

Although poor Thread Owner got a little bent out of shape and renamed the thread, I don't think it's perfect. It's bouncing around with very little sense or cohesion. I didn't mind "every damn day" though. I thought that was fine. Picard would still be bent out of shape about being Borged, surely.

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The Borg remind me a lot of the Necrons from Warhammer 40K, in that they have similar traits but the more you learn about both the less interesting they become. In the beginning, they were relentless and emotionless forces of nature, with the best technology of thousands of assimilated species on their side. Thinking so little of the Enterprise and its crew, and so sure of their own ability to regenerate, that they let Picard blast giant holes in the Borg ship just so they could analyze Starfleet weaponry first-hand. The only initial victory over them was a pyrrhic one. 

 

Honestly, I think the introduction of the Queen was the death-knell for the Borg (things were wonky before then. TNG's 'Descent' for example, but not terminal.) Yeah, she makes sense as a concept, but she also gave future writers a singular figure in the Collective to fixate on. The Borg were no longer a force of nature, but an autocracy, and it sucked all the air out of the room. Voyager then fucked them up even more royally, taking away any sense of menace. They've been so neutered by this point that it would take careful, and coordinated, efforts to rebuild them - not to what we had at first, that's gone forever now, but certainly something worthwhile. The point is, you can either do that, or you can go for one huge, brain-busting revelation to try and make the Borg relevant again. The former is considerably harder than the latter, which is why we won't get it. Unfortunately, all the latter is going to do is dig the Borg's grave that much deeper.   

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Blowing up the cube was fine. It was the entire fleet, the last line of defence for Earth, against one ship. And even then it could have been a deliberate distraction tactic.

 

Meanwhile, on DS9 “Oh hi Worf, what did you get up to over the weekend?”

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I figured that made sense for the reasons listed. You couldnt take out all their systems etc, so it was like they were literally focus-firing just to break up the mass of the ship itself. Like splitting a log. But yeah as of Voyager I thought they were implied to be good as beaten, so I suppose at this point you might as well toy with them as a concept a bit. Does feel a bit like the disney star wars approach though. 

 

Also, I agree with the setup they seem to be angling; however I dunno how theyd justify them getting all the way over to the other side of the galaxy and leaving no other trace until Q lols around with them.

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14 hours ago, Mr Ben said:

Yeah, but with Alex Kurtzman in charge, this is the best Trek we'll get.

 

They better not say the Romulans created the Borg! If they do that, then I'm out. That would be fucking garbage.

 

Michael Bernham created the Borg.

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Of all the things I'm now hatewatching this for (Mass Effect 2 this week!), I think obnoxious futuretech might be at the top of my list. LCARS is such an iconic UI because they focused on streamlining complex systems for rapid comprehension, using global colour groups to present the least amount of info per screen.

 

They weren't trying to make the Enterprise cool: they were trying to guess how a sophisticated future might look. Data never waved his hands around to a concert of beeps we'd have all disabled.

 

[edit]

 

Yo, I've just realised who Vup reminded me of!

 

Joe.jpg

 

Sadly, I don't award this episode five stars.

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It's the writers looking through Wii goggles at the future thinking it will be amazing. Everyone will be wanting to wave and waggle all over the show. Not realising that 99.9% of people simply can't be arsed.

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It feels like a closer timeline to me because of it. We all remember Data's Track & Field II turbo fingers, but those consoles were set up for economy of movement, and I see that as an evolution on the utopian tech side. The less invasive it is the more impressed I am. You know it's dystopian now because poor old Picard's in a gaming chair!

 

There's definitely a place for this sort of sci-fi and also Picard, but together? I actually think they were a whisker away from a great story that would've made it work, with one side wanting to save Soji and the other destroy her, but they've appointed cartoon baddies instead of two sets of would-be allies in moral conflict. That and the casting and dialogue.

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There are rumours of a Pike Enterprise series and as much as I enjoyed Pike on Discovery I hope they do not come to pass. 

 

I don't want to see the same 10 minutes of the 23rd century filled in again and again, all the while the stories are constrained by the fact that you know what happens to the majority of the characters and that with Kirk's Enterprise in the very soon future nothing too dramatic can take place.

 

I'd really like to see a TNG style ship show, set era in the era of Picard or a few years later just doing what TNG did. I don't need a convoluted 10 episode plot, or the Federation to suddenly be out and out villains (I'm a DS9 fan so some question marks are fine) just get some decent sci fi writers on the board, do broadly self contained episodes with the ability to tell brand new stories and also check in on existing plot threads - what did happen to the Gamma Quadrant, DS9 and the wormhole.  You've already got a vast array of supporting characters and guest stars that you can pull from the TNG era, it seems silly not to progress the TNG timeline rather than do the Kirk timeline again. 

 

The Orville is by no means perfect but there is definitely room for a Star Trek series in the TNG/Orville style along side the flashy ridiculous plotting mess that is Discovery and could be Picard (have to see where the story ends up going before we can say for sure). 

 

You'd think writers would love to do a TNG show.  You think it must sometimes get pretty dull to have a broad plot line and be given episode 4 to write knowing that the most you can do is slightly inch the plot forwards. DS9 ended with a ten episode serialised run and showed that you can do a ten episode plot with lots of actual plot. Dukut turns Bajorian, Defiant gets destroyed, Kira turns Cardassian freedom fighter, Klingon internal strife, Bashir and O'Brian in a spy mystery. There was loads packed in which makes it ever more glaringly obvious when you see current serialised shows with a paper thin plot thread over 10 episodes.  I have no problem with a serialised show but you should bloody well have stacks of plot to get through and throw it all at the wall. 24 did this well, yes it have an overall plot but those writers would be the first to admit that they split it into mini arcs throughout each series and burned through loads of plot, hence the occasional requirement for amnesia because they'd literally run out of plot three episodes early. 

 

Basically, most modern TV shows are pretty dull. 

 

 

3ad.jpg

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The posters in this thread now feel like an away team stuck on an alien world with styrofoam rocks, desperately trying not to upset the petulant energy being in charge, lest they change the thread title again.

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I really want to like this show and enjoy Star Trek on TV again, but I'm just finding it a bit depressing and clichéd. To be fair, it's not really any worse than I expected it to be, but I just didn't expect it to be very good in the first place.

 

Seven of Nine is now a renegade and to show how 'bad-ass' she is, she... wears a leather jacket, dual-wields guns and drinks whiskey straight. It's such an unoriginal turn for any character, and it was especially glaring when she first downed that drink because I was immediately reminded of the episode of Voyager where it's established Seven can't handle alcohol. I realise that doesn't have to remain an immutable aspect of the character, but come on, do something interesting with this, for goodness sake!

 

There was one good bit where she and Picard talk about their shared Borg experience, and this was really nice and seemed true to the characters. But it was over and done in about 30 seconds.

 

"Gambling planet" is lame. Surprised they didn't end up in a strip club.

 

Did they not build any other parts of the ship set and that's why we're spending so much time in Holo-Vinyard?

 

I didn't think much of Maddox. He didn't look or sound anything like the original guy, it could have been literally anybody else. A wasted opportunity.

 

The gory Icheb scene was horrible. :(

 

I actually liked French Pirate Picard. Silly but fun, and PatStew seemed to be enjoying himself. It's just a tonal whiplash problem, isn't it?

 

It was nice to see the plot move on slightly, though. Are we half way through yet?

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5 minutes ago, Sprite Machine said:

Did they not build any other parts of the ship set and that's why we're spending so much time in Holo-Vinyard?

 

I didn't think much of Maddox. He didn't look or sound anything like the original guy, it could have been literally anybody else. A wasted opportunity.

 

That was my thought about the ship.  Picard was never a character that would need to live or spend time in a holographic recreation of his living room.  It just smells of reusing a expensive set for production reasons rather than plot reasons. 

 

Agree on Maddox.  Could have been anyone. If they could not get the original actor back they should have just created a new character. 

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I think drawing on Maddox has more to do with Measure of a Man being the favourite TNG episode of some of the cast and producers than anything else. It also happens to objectively be the best episode.

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24 minutes ago, makkuwata said:

objectively

Use of this word should be banning offence these days. :lol:

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If someone asked me to define what made TNG great, what is lacking from modern Trek, I would point to Measure of a Man and say

 

 

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This for me:

 

He's putting his career on the line by fighting not a war, not a battle but simply to keep the state from taking someone's child.  Discovery wouldn't even begin to know how to construct such a situation. The only moral backbone Discovery has is to mistakenly show in a good light an Officer who intentionally disobeyed orders in order to start a war. 

 

I can definitely see how Picard resigned by accident.  It is not the first time he's made such a move (Insurrection also springs to mind) and at one point or another someone is simply going to call your bluff or simply accept your resignation. 

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TNG does provide some backstory to make the Romulans creating the Borg theory at least plausible.  It is strongly hinted in the episode ‘The Neutral Zone’ that the Romulans had potentially suffered from Borg attacks.  Add to that the fact that the same episode also established the Federation had not encountered the Romulans in years, because they had been busy dealing with internal issues and you can easily see how script writers could work that. 

 

Edit:  Thinking about it more they basically nick the backstory of Battlestar Galactica.  The Romulans create The Borg (Cylons) who turn on them in a brutal uprising, before fucking off (To the Delta Quadrant), only to return years later with devastating firepower.

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Except there's a Romulan who's been assimilated in Voyager, so their "immunity" is nonsense cooked up by crap writers, and it quickly falls apart. Romulans have been attacked by the Borg post TNG series as well, as I vaguely remember it being mentioned in either DS9 or First contact.

 

I cant wait to laugh at the explanation they come up with for how the Borg got from the Alpha/Beta Quadrant to the Delta!

 

Its more believable that V'ger created the Borg than Romulans. At least that would make more sense.

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What if Maddox was a synth and we haven't seen the real Maddox yet.

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:lol:

 

The entire cast may as well be synths. Or maybe the whole show is set on a holodeck, and someone is using it to help make a critical decision during their own time - :bye: future "Riker"

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11 minutes ago, Mr Ben said:

 

I cant wait to laugh at the explanation they come up with for how the Borg got from the Alpha/Beta Quadrant to the Delta!

 

 

I could write that myself.  The Borg who initially rebelled were working in a top secret trans warp techno babble facility.

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1 hour ago, McCoy said:

This for me:

 

 

I love Starfleet admirals. Never miss an opportunity to remind you that you're ending your career over the slightest disagreement, while they get up to all sorts of horrendous, unethical shit.

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Hmm, reading about Starfleet admirals reminded me that the Federation is banned from using cloaking devices by their treaty with the Romulans circa TNG/DS9. Is that out of the window now that the Romulans are largely refugees?

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59 minutes ago, DeciderVT said:

Hmm, reading about Starfleet admirals reminded me that the Federation is banned from using cloaking devices by their treaty with the Romulans circa TNG/DS9. Is that out of the window now that the Romulans are largely refugees?

 

It depends on how much you go with the Picard series' representation. The destruction of Romulus would be damaging to the Romulans, but not fatal. No more than, say, the destruction of London would turn everyone in the U.K into a refugee. The Romulan Star Empire isn't as big as the Federation, but it's not as though every Romulan in the universe lived on their home world, and being a warp capable civilisation there's no way vital members of the government, and noted scientists/artists/etc were just sitting on Romulus waiting for the Federation transport barges to turn up. True, they were battered by Shinzon's coup, and the destruction of their home world would have been a big blow to general Romulan morale and sense of purpose, but it wouldn't have caused the Star Empire to fall.

 

Tl;dr: I refuse to believe that there isn't a Romulan ad-hoc government operating in the Star Empire, and one which would expect the Federation to abide by any existing treaty.    

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Garibaldi said:

It depends on how much you go with the Picard series' representation. The destruction of Romulus would be damaging to the Romulans, but not fatal. No more than, say, the destruction of London would turn everyone in the U.K into a refugee. The Romulan Star Empire isn't as big as the Federation, but it's not as though every Romulan in the universe lived on their home world, and being a warp capable civilisation there's no way vital members of the government, and noted scientists/artists/etc were just sitting on Romulus waiting for the Federation transport barges to turn up. True, they were battered by Shinzon's coup, and the destruction of their home world would have been a big blow to general Romulan morale and sense of purpose, but it wouldn't have caused the Star Empire to fall.

 

Tl;dr: I refuse to believe that there isn't a Romulan ad-hoc government operating in the Star Empire, and one which would expect the Federation to abide by any existing treaty.   

Having played Star Trek Online, they did a far better job explaining (imagine that, a video game company doing a better job than CBS/Paramount) that central government was evacuated along with most of their civilians/workers etc. to another planet and formed the Romulan Republic, and due to a lot of the original government being killed off etc in Shinzons coup, they were far more open to Federation assistance (yes, the Federation actually assists them unlike in Picard :facepalm:) and even trade with the Klingons. They still only allow the Federation cloaking technology on a case by case basis, such as in DS9 with the Defiant though.

 

Picard makes it look like the supernova crippled the Romulans and they're now outcasts/refugees living on scraps around the galaxy. Its rubbish.

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