Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker (December 2019)

[drmick]

17 minutes ago, Stoppy2000 said:

Yes it does.

 

That's got me thinking- which scene/group of scenes or set-piece is the best?

 

Like the way the podrace and the final lightsaber fight in Phantom Menace are still good viewing.

[sandman]

On 26 April 2020 at 00:19, John Edward Gammell said:

Or they're sandman.

Oi cheeky!

 

 

[SeanR]

33 minutes ago, Stoppy2000 said:

Yes it does.

the... credits?

[Stoppy2000]

23 minutes ago, SeanR said:

the... credits?

Threepio gets some good bits. Kylo Vs Rey saber battle. Han. Luke lifting the X-Wing. I loved all of these things. I think the film is rushed and the weakest of the new trilogy but I think to claim it has absolutely no good bits is a bit of a stretch. 

(Oh and the credits are great - nothing beats the Star Wars music on the big screen).

[Stoppy2000]

59 minutes ago, Darren said:

I agree it’s the weakest of the originals, and it was definitely a bit of a “greatest hits + cuddly toys for the kids” concept, but I can’t agree about Vader. He goes from a pantomime villain to a properly tragic character in that one film, and I’d argue in the space of one line: “It’s too late for me, son.” Just like the Luke/Rey/Ben triangle is the best thing about the new films, the Luke/Vader/Emperor tug of war is the best thing in Jedi and arguably in the whole original trilogy.

100% agree with this. His dying conversation with Luke is perfect. (As a kid I always wondered why none of the imperials came to help him though). 

[drmick]

34 minutes ago, Stoppy2000 said:

Threepio gets some good bits. Kylo Vs Rey saber battle. Han. Luke lifting the X-Wing. I loved all of these things. I think the film is rushed and the weakest of the new trilogy but I think to claim it has absolutely no good bits is a bit of a stretch. 

(Oh and the credits are great - nothing beats the Star Wars music on the big screen).

 

Luke lifting the X-Wing was bad to the point of being offensive, for me. Allowing Force ghosts the ability to manipulate the environment is an almost universe-destroying development.

[Lumpy]

There are some good bits here and there in RotS. Nice effects, good performances...But I can't enjoy them as the movie as a whole is a hot mess.

 

5 minutes ago, drmick said:

 

Luke lifting the X-Wing was bad to the point of being offensive, for me. Allowing Force ghosts the ability to manipulate the environment is an almost universe-destroying development.

 

Yeah they were definitely playing fast and loose with some of the Force powers in RotS. I at least thought they might explain away Rey using the heal powers as a Sith thing. Remember Palpatine telling Anakin about Plagueis in Revenge? I thought that was where they were going with it, that she might harbour darker powers.

 

2 hours ago, Chadruharazzeb said:

Who the hell would think Jedi was dreadful? 

 

Maniacs for the most part! Though I can see the problems with it, the good stuff just about outweighs the bad in Jedi.

[drmick]

8 minutes ago, Lumpy said:

There are some good bits here and there in RotS. Nice effects, good performances...But I can't enjoy them as the movie as a whole is a hot mess.

 

 

Yeah they were definitely playing fast and loose with some of the Force powers in RotS. I at least thought they might explain away Rey using the heal powers as a Sith thing. Remember Palpatine telling Anakin about Plagueis in Revenge? I thought that was where they were going with it, that she might harbour darker powers.

 

 

Maniacs for the most part! Though I can see the problems with it, the good stuff just about outweighs the bad in Jedi.

 

The Dark Side having healing powers would have been a far more interesting plot development than what we got.

[Dirty Harry Potter]

The performances and chemistry of the main cast is great in ROTS imo. Its never been better. Which makes the fact the rest of the film is so shambolically bad really, quite unforgivable.

 

Disney, JJ and Kathy should all offer George Lucas a public grovelling apology for bringing it into being.

 

 

[Joystick Chevron]

Fucking lol at the terminal brainworms required to think RotJ 'ruined' Vader's character. I can't even parse how anyone could come to that conclusion, goddamn.

[Kevvy Metal]

6 hours ago, drmick said:

It was a Kevin Smith reference as to how he ranks movies, folks. He loves everything, so the only way he can ranks something better than excellent is put into a new category of himself or his wife doing sexual acts to the director, writer etc. Does it all the time on his podcasts. And he loves Star Wars.

 

I'm pretty sure he isn't serious......

Kevin Smith likes the prequels, I think the prequels are crap. 
 

 

 

 

Revenge of the Sith is soooorta alright just because stuff happens in it, but it’s still really weird and goofy & crap 
 

 

 

[Festoon]

3 hours ago, drmick said:

 

Luke lifting the X-Wing was bad to the point of being offensive, for me. Allowing Force ghosts the ability to manipulate the environment is an almost universe-destroying development.

 

JJ don't give a damn.

 

The. Worst. Director.

[Steve McQueef]

[Kevvy Metal]

14 hours ago, drmick said:

 

Luke lifting the X-Wing was bad to the point of being offensive, for me. Allowing Force ghosts the ability to manipulate the environment is an almost universe-destroying development.

 

11 hours ago, Festoon said:

 

JJ don't give a damn.

 

The. Worst. Director.

 

Are you both actually being serious? 

 

Genuine question, Devil's Advocate. 

[Festoon]

3 minutes ago, Kevvy Metal said:

 

 

Are you both actually being serious? 

 

Genuine question, Devil's Advocate. 

 

I am. JJ is a mimic that brings nothing but visual pizzazz. But all his films are starting to look very similar.

 

His plotting is awful (ST Into Darkness, TFA, RoS) and he just stomps all over logic of the worlds he's occupying just for shock value. For a so-called uberfan he seems to not really 'get' much of what he makes and adds almost nothing to the lore, other than breaking stuff. Characters are constantly in motion as he doesn't trust the audience to get invested without constant action. His dialogue is completely unmemorable. I can't recall a single line from one of his films, except the Khan one because it was such a clanger.

 

His fan service is grating (I.....am KHAN, Chewie's medal) and just clumsy.

 

He's basically Brett Ratner with better visuals.

[Kevvy Metal]

1 minute ago, Festoon said:

 

I am. JJ is a mimic that brings nothing but visual pizzazz. But all his films are starting to look very similar.

 

His plotting is awful (ST Into Darkness, TFA, RoS) and he just stomps all over logic of the worlds he's occupying just for shock value. For a so-called uberfan he seems to not really 'get' much of what he makes and adds almost nothing to the lore, other than breaking stuff. Characters are constantly in motion as he doesn't trust the audience to get invested without constant action. His dialogue is completely unmemorable. I can't recall a single line from one of his films, except the Khan one because it was such a clanger.

 

His fan service is grating (I.....am KHAN, Chewie's medal) and just clumsy.

 

He's basically Brett Ratner with better visuals.

 

Fair enough, I don't have a problem with JJ's stuff, either Star Wars and Star Trek (although I wasn't much of a fan of Super 8).

I get the always in motion, kinetic style but I find it all very easy to follow. I find it well made and entertaining, with no problem to follow the plot and don't have any issues with the dialog or writing. 

 

I also don't have a problem with Force Ghosts manipulating the environment. Yoda or Luke. I like that they're one with the force and can still manipulate it to a degree. 

[Darren]

I get the JJ criticism but I don’t agree with the extent, if that makes sense. He has flaws as mentioned but I don’t think they’re film-breaking. My particular pet hate is several of his scenes include dialogue that doesn’t make sense as a conversation, as if some lines were accidentally deleted from the script and then the actors just had to try and make sense of what they were left with. But it’s just a minor niggle. His episodes (and TLJ too) are still miles better than the prequels as far as I’m concerned.

[Boothjan]

I think the only thing that really grates on me with JJ's 2 Star Wars films is that for some reason, he doesn't seem to get the sense of distance/scale in the galaxy right - there's a lot of hopping between worlds.  Not a film-breaking issue by any stretch of the imagination and I'd never given the force ghost manipulation a second's thought TBH.

 

I think he's done a decent enough job in this trilogy - I definitely can't agree with the levels of criticism labelled at him - or Rian Johnson either. 

[CarloOos]

I think the only JJ film I'm able to truly enjoy on repeat viewing, without being dismayed at how exhausting and artificial it all is, is that first Star Trek reboot. It's just a whole lot of fun, the cast really shine, and the plot is mostly quite neat. But even that has at least one enormous leap of logic which threatens to derail the whole thing (ice planet Spock).

 

MI:3 has also aged well but I haven't seen it anywhere near as many times.

[Kevvy Metal]

Ice Planet Spock is a proper "wtf" moment. A bigger clanger than anything in the new SW trilogy from my point of view, but Trek '09 is still good fun but that scene took me right out of the whole thing. 

 

This is pure assumption, but going with the knowledge that Star Wars was originally influenced by the likes of Flash Gordon and Dune - which all take place in one Star System with multiple planets - I think this was what Lucas originally had in mind. A smaller area of locations than you would see in an actual galaxy. He never gave the slightest fuck about the science behind it all, and neither do I really. 

[CarloOos]

24 minutes ago, Kevvy Metal said:

Ice Planet Spock is a proper "wtf" moment. A bigger clanger than anything in the new SW trilogy from my point of view, but Trek '09 is still good fun but that scene took me right out of the whole thing. 

 

It's bad, but I think that stupid fucking dagger in RotS was worse. Who made it, when it was made, why it was made, how and where they find it and later use it... there's not even a trite hand-wavey attempt to justify it, just absolute hokum from start to finish.

[Kevvy Metal]

4 minutes ago, CarloOos said:

 

It's bad, but I think that stupid fucking dagger in RotS was worse. Who made it, when it was made, why it was made, how and where they find it and later use it... there's not even a trite hand-wavey attempt to justify it, just absolute hokum from start to finish.

 

That's all fair enough too, but the dagger didn't bother me at all. I didn't watch the RLM review as I'm not interested in it, but I had heard that they had joked about it being an "ancient dagger" although it's leading to a site that only appeared in the last 30 years. 

But the film never calls it "ancient" once. The Sith made it, and it must have been made recently to locate the Holocron thing to lead the person to Exegol. 

i imagine the Death Star wreckage is static, not actually you know...floating about, and Rey using it Goonies style felt like a bit of a nod to the adventure serials of old. 

 

It doesn't annoy me at all, much like a whole scale model of the city being in a wee room in Raiders of the Lost Ark didn't annoy me. 

 

I'm not discounting your take away from it at all, this is just how I feel. 

[englishbob]

Waiting for the ROTJ David Lynch cut personally

[Kevvy Metal]

16 minutes ago, englishbob said:

Waiting for the ROTJ David Lynch cut personally

I do wish Spielberg was involved as planned, as I do feel ROTJ is the least best of the OT. 
 

The middle section really sags in particular. 

[PK]

Does anyone else think this new trilogy would have been much better if Johnson had written & directed the third part, rather than the second?

 

His ideas for TLJ would have been really excellent for a finale to the Skywalker saga - your importance is not limited by who your parents are; we achieve peace by focusing on the things we care about not what we hate; the Jedi's fundamentalist obsession with Light versus Dark needs to be abandoned. They work really well as a moral of the story wrap-up.  'All of the death and destruction that's happened over the last five films has been because of people on both sides fucking things up, and these two young people have finally got it'. I think even his subversion of movie tropes work better in a final part than the middle of the series, it's a good time to lightly take the piss and subvert expectations.

 

After Force Awakens, they could have had a middle film where they flesh out Po's dodgy background, Snoke's motivations, the First Order, Finn and Rose, and maybe have Rey obsessing over finding her parents but gradually starting to come to the realisation that what she does is more important than where she comes from, etc. Then basically let Johnson write TLJ Unchained Edition as the finale, leaving the galaxy as a fresh canvas for new stories.

 

As it was, you got a glimpse of that in TLJ, but then Johnson needed to leave a villain for the next film so falls back on leaving us with yet another Light protagonist/Dark antagonist situation. And then, for me at least, ROS undos most of what made TLJ so interesting, and is a bit of a confused mess of a film in its own right because it's having to find a way to unwrap everything and then wrap it all up again.

[PK]

(also - I know there's been a lot of arguing about these films on here, I'm not trying to stoke that. I don't hate any of them, and I really like two of them. I'm just left with a sense that the whole exercise was a missed opportunity and you can actually see the opportunity that was missed, in TFA and TLJ).

[Darren]

I can’t remember if I’ve already said this, but it occurred to me that the lack of planning might have been a deliberate but misguided attempt by Disney/KK to move away from the prequels and be more like the originals. On the basis that George made the originals up as he went along, and they turned out great! And then he had the whole story for the prequels planned in advance (he didn’t, but he did at least have constraints around what could happen and how it could end) and look how they turned out. So perhaps they set about turning Star Wars into the world’s most expensive version of that game where you write a sentence, fold it over and pass it to the next person as a way of emulating George’s original method.

[drmick]

4 hours ago, Kevvy Metal said:

 

 

Are you both actually being serious? 

 

Genuine question, Devil's Advocate. 

 

We were both making different points. I shouldn't have to explain the flaw in logic that Force Ghosts having the ability to change the environment means?

[Kevvy Metal]

10 minutes ago, drmick said:

 

We were both making different points. I shouldn't have to explain the flaw in logic that Force Ghosts having the ability to change the environment means?

 

Yeah, I know you're both making different points and I was just inquiring. And yeah, you really don't need to explain actually... especially when it comes down to the minutia logic of a film about Space Wizards made for children. 

[drmick]

1 minute ago, Kevvy Metal said:

 

Yeah, I know you're both making different points and I was just inquiring. And yeah, you really don't need to explain actually... especially when it comes down to the minutia logic of a film about Space Wizards made for children. 

 

For a children's show those Space Wizards sure do a lot of chopping off of limbs and heads. But I accept that if I had the intelligence of a small child I wouldn't notice these things.