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Jug McKenzie

Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker (December 2019)

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I think they all suffered from such a long time and all the expanded universe stuff. I'd read the Timothy zahn books but not watched any of the cartoons for instance, there were fans that only saw the prequels in their youth, those that remember the original movies as groundbreaking movie experiences compared to everything else, fans that read everything on wookiepedia and fans that just enjoyed it as a space romp in the vein of the flash Gordon serials and lots more in between. 

I personally think TLJ was thematically the best way to expand away from the original storylines and update it to some degree. I know that some people wanted Luke to be super badass and fuck everything up with his lazer sword but that doesn't make sense to me, I understand it though and can see the appeal of that kind of sequel and maybe that's where it was going to go originally from JJ. 

 

There's a lot of baggage with the star wars movies that I just don't think it could escape from and i think the best bet would have just been leaving it at 6 movies and doing another in universe trilogy. Especially as all the heroes were already so old, had the timing of it all been different and the release of them all were more regular (I know this is complete unrealistic speculation) with prequels in 90s and sequels in early 2000s, without all of the time for all the expanded universe stuff to get carried away, the reception of the whole thing would be very different indeed. 

 

This new trilogy still made buckets of cash though so who knows what might happen, at least mandalorian seems a step in the right direction. 

 

It's all rather interesting I think. 

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Yeah, I suppose the baggage of having to finish the ‘Skywalker Saga’ and the expanded universe stuff, which I know nothing about to be honest, tied them up a fair bit.

 

Luckily, the next ones won’t have to deal with any of that baggage and they can wipe the slate clean.

 

I just want it to be a fun adventure again.

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The thing is, the Skywalker saga was already finished. They didn’t have to use the original three leading actors, they could have set other films at any time before or after the originals, but I suppose to the execs who bought it all off Lucas in the first place, the lure of getting them back to bring in those nostalgia dollars was just too strong. And of course I was one of the people who was really glad to see them return, and I still am really. Han got a good send off in TFA and Luke an even better one in TLJ. I imagine Leia would have had a much better one in TROS had Carrie actually been around to film it. As it is they did the best they could in the circumstances, and for all its flaws I’m glad the last film had her bringing Ben back to the light as her last act - a nice echo of Luke’s.

 

But they didn’t need to do any of that.

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1 hour ago, JPL said:

Yeah, I suppose the baggage of having to finish the ‘Skywalker Saga’ and the expanded universe stuff, which I know nothing about to be honest, tied them up a fair bit.

 

Luckily, the next ones won’t have to deal with any of that baggage and they can wipe the slate clean.

 

I just want it to be a fun adventure again.

Yeah I read a load of the books in the 90s and played all the games from back then and still have a weird star wars quiz CD-rom that @glbloaned me donkeys ago and got an embarrassingly high score on it when you think about it. I bought the star wars trivia pursuit interactive DVD thingy that came out around the prequels time and couldn't play it with any of my friends as they didn't know all the weird shit I'd absorbed over the years and I'm not what I'd consider a real "super fan" in comparison to some. 

 

I'd also argue that the 'fun adventure' you refer to is slightly misleading in a way too because there are undeniably things in the original trilogy which are either completely stupid, don't make any sense, or aren't particularly adventurous. The film considered the best of the originals, empire, has loads of philosophy and stuff I admittedly found a bit boring when I was a young kid and in these days of focus groups etc, I do wonder whether a lot of that would have even made it in but the memory of the whole and the general impact as a kid is undeniable. 

 

It's maybe like if they made another three avengers movies with the same actors in 40 years but made one of them like thor the dark world, one like ant man and one like the avengers perhaps. Kids that grew up with the MCU would want and expect all three to be more like one or the other I'd imagine. Obviously that's not a true comparison but then there is also nothing else remotely similar to compare it to. Indiana Jones is probably the other closest thing and I think it's fair to say, everyone that enjoyed the trilogy as a kid thinks crystal skull is a piece of shit but if I saw it as a 10 year old, I'd probably have liked it more, I dunno. 

 

I agree with @Darrenthat it was good to see everyone back though but undeniably a shame han and Luke couldn't properly have an adventure together but then I liked him being a grumpy hermit in Ireland milking a space cow in regards to it being an interesting and understandable character development rather than him just being invincible space jesus kicking ass and taking names, although I could see that it might have been fun to see that, even if I think that's almost too "easy".

 

It's a funny old game. 

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When did all this ‘Skywalker Saga’ marketing bollocks stuff start? I only recall hearing the term in the lead up to this film. I assumed it was Disney reacting to the mixed reaction to TLJ. Or were they using it since TFA and it passed me by. 

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30 minutes ago, Harsin said:

When did all this ‘Skywalker Saga’ marketing bollocks stuff start? I only recall hearing the term in the lead up to this film. I assumed it was Disney reacting to the mixed reaction to TLJ. Or were they using it since TFA and it passed me by. 


Nah, it was all to do with Rise.

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1 hour ago, Ivanho said:


Nah, it was all to do with Rise.

 

I don't think it was - weren't they referring to the numbered films as the Skywalker Saga when they announced the spin-offs starting with Rogue One? I'm sure they were, to explain why some films get episode numbers and others don't.

 

But again, there was no reason to make these films a direct (30 years later) sequel to the originals, and no reason for them to be episodes 7-9, other than marketing.

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There's no way they would've made these new films without including the original characters. Imagine how up in arms everyone would've been at the missed opportunity! There was plenty of space to get the old gang back together (or, at least, get them back), whilst also introducing new stories and characters.

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10 hours ago, b00dles said:

I’d also argue that the 'fun adventure' you refer to is slightly misleading in a way too because there are undeniably things in the original trilogy which are either completely stupid, don't make any sense, or aren't particularly adventurous. The film considered the best of the originals, empire, has loads of philosophy and stuff I admittedly found a bit boring when I was a young kid and in these days of focus groups etc, I do wonder whether a lot of that would have even made it in but the memory of the whole and the general impact as a kid is undeniable

How is it misleading? There’s not much in it, but I’d say that Empire is my least favourite of the original trilogy. I prefer the more simplistic tone of the A New Hope and the full on excitement of Jedi. I think that’s what it is for me.

 

I’m not arsed about them trying to weave in metaphors for modern issues or deep narratives with subverting twists, I just want a fun space romp. Rescue the princess, defeat the bad guys, go to loads of fantastical locations, give me exciting space battles, all that kind of stuff. As long as the story is serviceable, I’m happy to go on the journey. That’s what I mean by fun. Show me things that spark my imagination and wonder.

 

The complete opposite of TLJ really, which spent the majority of the film showing a slow chase through space, while a bunch of characters dealt with tiresome internal politics or tried to tell us how bad capitalism is. Of course there were some cool bits, but I found it pretty boring overall. RoS goes the other way and throws so much vacuous shit at you that it leaves your head spinning and doesn’t give the story chance to breathe. If there even was a story. It felt more like a frenetically edited music video.

 

Maybe too much time has passed and the extended universe has backed them into a corner, but I’d be happy if they went off to a different part of the galaxy for the next trilogy and gave us something that wasn’t constrained by what’s gone before. Just keep it simple and make it fun!

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5 minutes ago, JPL said:

I’m not arsed about them trying to weave in metaphors for modern issues or deep narratives with subverting twists, I just want a fun space romp. 

 

This is so true, its meant to be a space opera! A simple story anyone can enjoy, but deep a rich in lore and universe building.

 

2 months after RoS has been out, the tweet below explains who/what the Emperor's cheering fan club was, where the came from was not even hinted at in the film... 

 

As for Disney being restrained by the extended universe.  I thought they scratched all that and started a new canon?

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33 minutes ago, JPL said:

How is it misleading? There’s not much in it, but I’d say that Empire is my least favourite of the original trilogy. I prefer the more simplistic tone of the A New Hope and the full on excitement of Jedi. I think that’s what it is for me.

 

I’m not arsed about them trying to weave in metaphors for modern issues or deep narratives with subverting twists, I just want a fun space romp. Rescue the princess, defeat the bad guys, go to loads of fantastical locations, give me exciting space battles, all that kind of stuff. As long as the story is serviceable, I’m happy to go on the journey. That’s what I mean by fun. Show me things that spark my imagination and wonder.

 

The complete opposite of TLJ really, which spent the majority of the film showing a slow chase through space, while a bunch of characters dealt with tiresome internal politics or tried to tell us how bad capitalism is. Of course there were some cool bits, but I found it pretty boring overall. RoS goes the other way and throws so much vacuous shit at you that it leaves your head spinning and doesn’t give the story chance to breathe. If there even was a story. It felt more like a frenetically edited music video.

 

Maybe too much time has passed and the extended universe has backed them into a corner, but I’d be happy if they went off to a different part of the galaxy for the next trilogy and gave us something that wasn’t constrained by what’s gone before. Just keep it simple and make it fun!

Precisely my point, different strokes for different folks. 

Especially as "fun" is entirely subjective and I couldn't disagree with you more. I also wonder if you'd even enjoy a film like jedi if it came out now and you watched it at whatever age you are, I think nostalgia and the memory of the fun had watching them does subconsciously taint one's views on any of these movies. 

Just look at the 80s guilty pleasures thread, lots of the films in there you can objectively tear apart in regards to film making/ script/ acting but pretty much all of them I'd say were great, even though I know they aren't. 

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Oh, I know it’s subjective, but I suppose I want them to be more like the originals in tone. It’s why I fell in love with them from the start. The prequels veered off into some weird political wranglings and the new ones, when viewed as a whole, are just a mess really. Anyway, I guess we’ll find out in a couple of years where they want to take them.

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2 hours ago, JPL said:

How is it misleading? There’s not much in it, but I’d say that Empire is my least favourite of the original trilogy. I prefer the more simplistic tone of the A New Hope and the full on excitement of Jedi.

 

That is why I've never been able to decide which I prefer out of Episodes IV and V. I realise that Empire has more complexity, a more interesting structure (splitting the characters up), and great characters in Yoda and Lando - but there's a purity to the original Star Wars's straightforward adventure that I'm extremely fond of.

 

I think they're both well above ROTJ though. :P

 

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7 minutes ago, Nick R said:

 

That is why I've never been able to decide which I prefer out of Episodes IV and V. I realise that Empire has more complexity, a more interesting structure (splitting the characters up), and great characters in Yoda and Lando - but there's a purity to the original Star Wars's straightforward adventure that I'm extremely fond of.

 

I think they're both well above ROTJ though. :P

 

Oi, Jedi is my favourite! They’re all excellent though.

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Details of the UHD/BR/DVD/digital release:

 

https://www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-home-entertainment-announce

 

They're also releasing 4K UHD Blu-rays for the films that didn't already have them:

 

Quote

And on March 31, coinciding with the physical release of Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker, eight Star Wars films are being released on 4K UHD for the first time: Star Wars: The Phantom Menace, Star Wars: Attack of the Clones, Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith, Star Wars: A New Hope, Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back, Star Wars: Return of the Jedi, Star Wars: The Force Awakens and Rogue One: A Star Wars Story.

 

Yes, you too can finally buy your very own copy of STAR WARS EPISODE IV: A NEW HOPE - MACLUNKEY EDITION!

 

There's also a picture of a limited edition 27-disc box set of the nine films in the Skywalker Saga. (There's that phrase again!) The text doesn't have any details of that, but I suppose those 27 discs must consist of 4K, standard BR, and whatever bonus discs were released with previous editions of each film?

 

 

What was that prediction Kerraig mentioned recently, that Rise of Skywalker wouldn't be getting a physical release...? ;)

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7 minutes ago, Nick R said:

 

What was that prediction Kerraig mentioned recently, that Rise of Skywalker wouldn't be getting a physical release...? ;)

 

Lol.

I'm only surprised that they're not releasing it on vinyl as well.

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Those dreading what harm JJ might do to Superman need not imagine - his legendary Superman script from the early 2000s is still out there for your enjoyment. You know, the one that ends with Lex flying up to Superman and fighting him with deadly alien martial arts because he was secretly from Krypton all along as well.

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On ‎19‎/‎02‎/‎2020 at 11:31, b00dles said:

I think nostalgia and the memory of the fun had watching them does subconsciously taint one's views on any of these movies. 

 

Course they do. There's an awful lot of Jedi that is complete shite thse days.

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3 minutes ago, PeteBrant said:

Course they do. There's an awful lot of Jedi that is complete shite thse days.

Not to me. I still love everything about it. The culmination of the story, the pacing, the characters, the special effects are all the best in the series for me. I don’t even know why people hate the Ewoks so much,  I think they’re great.

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13 minutes ago, JPL said:

Not to me. I still love everything about it. The culmination of the story, the pacing, the characters, the special effects are all the best in the series for me. I don’t even know why people hate the Ewoks so much,  I think they’re great.

Yeah but an awful lot of that is nostalgia. You grew up with SW so you have an affinity for it that someone coming new to it today having grown up with, say, the Avengers movies wouldn't have.

 

I remember my youngest watching the light sabre battle between Obi-Wan and Darth Vader (his previous exposure was seeing Obiwan vs Darth maul) and just watching it with this incredulous look on his face that something so shit could have been possible.

 

It was even worse when Clash of the Titans came on the box one christmas and I said how great it was. They thought I was mental.

 

 

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21 minutes ago, PeteBrant said:

Yeah but an awful lot of that is nostalgia. You grew up with SW so you have an affinity for it that someone coming new to it today having grown up with, say, the Avengers movies wouldn't have.

 

I remember my youngest watching the light sabre battle between Obi-Wan and Darth Vader (his previous exposure was seeing Obiwan vs Darth maul) and just watching it with this incredulous look on his face that something so shit could have been possible.

 

It was even worse when Clash of the Titans came on the box one christmas and I said how great it was. They thought I was mental.

 

 

It could be my nostalgia, although I don't think it is. I still maintain that the original trilogy is by far the best Star Wars we've ever had. In fact, point me to a better space battle than the Death Star attack at the end of the Return of the Jedi in any other Star Wars film. You can't, because there isn't one.

 

Check this out though - my two boys have just recently got into Star Wars (thanks to The Mandalorian) and we've been through all 9 episodes. Guess what? They think the original trilogy is best. That isn't nostalgia. Oh, and they've grown up with Marvel as well. It means so much to my eldest that he was crying in the cinema when Tony dies in Endgame. Even still, they're absolutely all over Star Wars at the moment.

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31 minutes ago, PeteBrant said:

I remember my youngest watching the light sabre battle between Obi-Wan and Darth Vader (his previous exposure was seeing Obiwan vs Darth maul) and just watching it with this incredulous look on his face that something so shit could have been possible.

 

I would be interested to see what he thinks of it when he's a bit older. I was 10 when Phantom Menace came out and I thought it was great. It was also my first Star Wars film. I didn't really understand any of the political intrigue guff but the hype leading into that movie was insane and both lightsabres and Darth Maul are pretty cool.

 

Once I was a bit older and less wowed by CGI projectile vomit, I was far less impressed. I didn't see IV/V/VI until I was about 15 or 16, but the original trilogy is by far the best.

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43 minutes ago, JPL said:

It could be my nostalgia, although I don't think it is. I still maintain that the original trilogy is by far the best Star Wars we've ever had. In fact, point me to a better space battle than the Death Star attack at the end of the Return of the Jedi in any other Star Wars film. You can't, because there isn't one.

 

Check this out though - my two boys have just recently got into Star Wars (thanks to The Mandalorian) and we've been through all 9 episodes. Guess what? They think the original trilogy is best. That isn't nostalgia. Oh, and they've grown up with Marvel as well. It means so much to my eldest that he was crying in the cinema when Tony dies in Endgame. Even still, they're absolutely all over Star Wars at the moment.

 

I dunno, I means it done really well for the time. But, like most space battles just merge into one. There's none that really stand out for any particular reason. It's all just special effects.

 

 

I reckon your kids would be terrified of admitting to you that Star wars isnt the best thing ever. ;)

 

 

32 minutes ago, HarryBizzle said:

 

I would be interested to see what he thinks of it when he's a bit older. I was 10 when Phantom Menace came out and I thought it was great. It was also my first Star Wars film. I didn't really understand any of the political intrigue guff but the hype leading into that movie was insane and both lightsabres and Darth Maul are pretty cool.

 

Once I was a bit older and less wowed by CGI projectile vomit, I was far less impressed. I didn't see IV/V/VI until I was about 15 or 16, but the original trilogy is by far the best.

Youngest is now 25, and still can't bring himself to watch the whole thing. Different era different generation

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2 minutes ago, PeteBrant said:

I reckon your kids would be terrified of admitting to you that Star wars isnt the best thing ever. ;)

I’m more terrified to tell them I think the new ones are shit! They’re bigger Star Wars fans now than I ever was. In fact they’re playing Battlefront 2 as we speak!

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30 minutes ago, PeteBrant said:

Youngest is now 25, and still can't bring himself to watch the whole thing. Different era different generation


That’s only about five years younger than me, so not sure about different era!

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16 hours ago, Nick R said:

What was that prediction Kerraig mentioned recently, that Rise of Skywalker wouldn't be getting a physical release...? ;)

Oh yeah! Where is he? I want to hear his explanation for this.

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2 hours ago, HarryBizzle said:

 

I would be interested to see what he thinks of it when he's a bit older. I was 10 when Phantom Menace came out and I thought it was great. It was also my first Star Wars film. I didn't really understand any of the political intrigue guff but the hype leading into that movie was insane and both lightsabres and Darth Maul are pretty cool.

 

Once I was a bit older and less wowed by CGI projectile vomit, I was far less impressed. I didn't see IV/V/VI until I was about 15 or 16, but the original trilogy is by far the best.

If you watched the prequels first, I have to ask, did the whole Darth Vader being Luke's father and the fact leia was his sister have any sort of impact because they totally tell you that in the prequels, or did it still work. 

Or is it such a known cultural thing that it wasn't remotely a surprise anyway?

 

I've always wondered what it would be like to watch them in order without knowing those things because even though I didn't see the originals until they were on TV, I still remember it as an :omg:moment as a kid. But all that is effectively fucked because Lucas wrote them backwards (and somehow managed to do it knowing that everyone in the audience would know the original trilogy).

 

Even obi wan must look like a total nutcase if you watch them in order "ani was a good friend (that I left on fire after I cut his limbs off)"

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1 hour ago, b00dles said:

If you watched the prequels first, I have to ask, did the whole Darth Vader being Luke's father and the fact leia was his sister have any sort of impact because they totally tell you that in the prequels, or did it still work. 

Or is it such a known cultural thing that it wasn't remotely a surprise anyway?

 

I've always wondered what it would be like to watch them in order without knowing those things because even though I didn't see the originals until they were on TV, I still remember it as an :omg:moment as a kid. But all that is effectively fucked because Lucas wrote them backwards (and somehow managed to do it knowing that everyone in the audience would know the original trilogy).

 

Even obi wan must look like a total nutcase if you watch them in order "ani was a good friend (that I left on fire after I cut his limbs off)"


I think I knew a lot of what happened in the  originals anyway. I can’t really remember what I thought of the characters in the prequels at the time. 

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7 minutes ago, HarryBizzle said:


I think I knew a lot of what happened in the  originals anyway. I can’t really remember what I thought of the characters in the prequels at the time. 

Fair enough, I'd still be intrigued to hear how it would be viewed if someone saw it chronologically but I'm not sure if anyone can avoid some of that known history. 

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