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Jug McKenzie

Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker (December 2019)

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4 hours ago, Paulando said:

You only have to see the film to know there was once a (potentially better) 3 hour cut at some point. The opening scene is effectively a montage to explain how Ren found the Sith Wayfinder; it’s a dreadful start to the film. I would love for the longer cut to emerge some day. I’m sure they’ll release it exclusively on Disney+ at some point down the line, once they’ve wrung the theatrical cut dry.

 

Lol. #ReleasetheJJCut

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1 hour ago, CarloOos said:


I don’t think we will, nor will we ever see the original cuts of Solo or Rogue One. It’s too close to an admission of what went on behind closed doors, along with all the corporate hubris and face-saving that goes along with it. The last thing Disney want confirmed for anyone is how the sausage is made.

 

There are no finished cuts to these movies. Only roughs with very little vfx. 

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3 hours ago, Hanzo the Razor said:

 

He spent most of TFA flirting with her. He even asked if she had a boyfriend at one point. He wanted to tell her he loved her. End of.

 

At least that has some foundation in the movies we have seen, as opposed to the force-sensitive shite.

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Maybe Zack and JJ will get together and release the ultimate crossover cut of both their movies. Justice of the Skywalker League will feature a new finale where Palpatine gets punched into space by Superman after Batman figures out the map to reach Exogul. 

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1 hour ago, Hanzo the Razor said:

 

No I wasn't. If Finn was Force sensitive I'm sure Rey would be able to feel it anyway. If I thought I was about to die I think telling the woman I love about my feelings would be more important than yelling "I'm Force sensitive! What do ye think of that!"

 

1 hour ago, Delargey said:

Yeah, the "force sensitive" reveal to Rey is a load of bollocks. 

 

14 minutes ago, Stoppy2000 said:

Well I'm pretty sure it was. We'll likely never find out anyway! 

 

6 minutes ago, Festoon said:

 

At least that has some foundation in the movies we have seen, as opposed to the force-sensitive shite.

 

Guys, it's been confirmed by Terrio and/or Abrams that what Finn wanted to tell Rey was that he was Force sensitive.

 

For it to be the opposite it would have to be that they filmed it as him being in love with her, but then changed it in reshoots or editing, and the post release comments are part of enforcing that change.

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3 minutes ago, mdn2 said:

Maybe Zack and JJ will get together and release the ultimate crossover cut of both their movies. Justice of the Skywalker League will feature a new finale where Palpatine gets punched into space by Superman after Batman figures out the map to reach Exogul. 

 

WB/DC, once again copying a Marvel idea.

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41 minutes ago, Festoon said:

 

There are no finished cuts to these movies. Only roughs with very little vfx. 


There won’t be a ‘finished’ alternative cut of RoS either. Everyone always hugely underestimates how close to the wire the post goes on films of this scale.

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26 minutes ago, drmick said:

 

 

 

 

Guys, it's been confirmed by Terrio and/or Abrams that what Finn wanted to tell Rey was that he was Force sensitive.

 

For it to be the opposite it would have to be that they filmed it as him being in love with her, but then changed it in reshoots or editing, and the post release comments are part of enforcing that change.

 

Don't care what they said - they also said some utter shit about Rose and Leia.

I'm talking about what's in the actual films - Finn in love with Rey makes sense. The other is not hinted at in the slightest way in any way.

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3 minutes ago, CarloOos said:


There won’t be a ‘finished’ alternative cut of RoS either. People hugely underestimate how close to the wire the post on these things goes.

 

Yep, the actual film only barely gets done.

 

Or not quite, in the case of Cats.

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5 hours ago, Paulando said:

You only have to see the film to know there was once a (potentially better) 3 hour cut at some point. The opening scene is effectively a montage to explain how Ren found the Sith Wayfinder; it’s a dreadful start to the film. I would love for the longer cut to emerge some day. I’m sure they’ll release it exclusively on Disney+ at some point down the line, once they’ve wrung the theatrical cut dry.


Sure, but releasing a two-hour version as weirdly disjointed as this is a definite creative failure. They knew they were making a movie aiming for a two-hour run-time and that they’d have to get it down to that at some point. It’s important to frame this not as a three-hour masterpiece being butchered to meet the studio’s needs, but - apparently - the director getting home with his new sofa and realising at the last moment that he’s going to have to hack off one of the arms to get it in the room.


If three hours is the length of the assembly cut as I suspect - most two hour movies come in at 3-4 hours - then it’s likely that the ADR, special effects, reshoots and so on needed to make a “finished” 3 hour version never happened, and the theatrical cut with deleted scenes is the best we’ll get.

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That came off a bit strong so I do want to add that they’re not fatal failures or anything, I just want to be clear on the character of what happened here.

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10 hours ago, Clipper said:

what does that mean? what artistic metrics are there that are objective?

 


I don’t know, but to suggest they don’t exist at all is to suggest that say, Scarface, is no better than say, Attack of the Clones, and also that everyone who ever reviewed a movie or wrote a thesis on film was wasting their time. There’s established ways that movies and stories in general work, backed up by years of research and work. Good films conform to those ideas or change them in deliberate ways. Bad films ignore them or change them in meaningless ways for the sake of it. 
 

There’s no definitive marker of artistic merit you can point to, but objectively derived artistic merit arrived at by consensus exists as a nebulous cultural force. 

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2 hours ago, drmick said:

 

 

 

 

Guys, it's been confirmed by Terrio and/or Abrams that what Finn wanted to tell Rey was that he was Force sensitive

 

Yes, but that's bollocks because why would he want to announce that just before he dies?

 

Also why didn't Rey use the force to try to save them? It would have made more sense for Rey to use the force to pull them into the ground because she sensed they would be safe and there is Sith stuff down there...i think it's another example of this being poorly planned.

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2 hours ago, Festoon said:

Don't care what they said - they also said some utter shit about Rose and Leia.

I'm talking about what's in the actual films - Finn in love with Rey makes sense. The other is not hinted at in the slightest way in any way.

I disagree, TFA has a little hint of it. Kylo Ren sensing Finn's reluctance to shoot, "The one in the village, FN2187" - that could have come from the force. And when I was first watching TFA my first thought was that Finn could feel the force after he and Ren shared a look after the massacre at the start of the film.

 

That said, when I first watched TROS, I too felt Finn wanted to tell Rey he had feelings for her. 

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I never once thought it was Finn trying to tell Rey that he loved her or something along those lines and completely read it as him having force sensitive powers that he was confused about, which is continually built upon through the film. 

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There actually is a scene that backs up the writers' assertions regarding what Finn wanted to say... 

Spoiler

When they're about to get "executed" on the Star Destroyer after rescuing Chewie:

 

Poe: "So what we're you gonna tell Rey?" 

 

Finn: "You still on that?" 

 

Poe: "Oh I'm sorry, is this a bad time?" 

 

Finn: "Yeah, it kinda is." 

 

If it really was about feelings for Rey, why would it be a bad time? It wouldn't. But admitting to feeling the force? Yes, because then Finn may be expected to pull some Jedi mind tricks like they'd just seen Rey do moments earlier. 

 

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I’m pretty sure that’s just “hilarious” I can’t believe you’re talking about that nonsense when we’re about to die, banter. 
 

Why would he want her to know that before she dies? Why would she care at that point?
 

It’s like the Lando thing. How is it not weird? Because it’s his daughter? How can he possibly know that? Has he read the script?

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23 minutes ago, HarryBizzle said:

I’m pretty sure that’s just “hilarious” I can’t believe you’re talking about that nonsense when we’re about to die, banter. 
 

Why would he want her to know that before she dies? Why would she care at that point?
 

It’s like the Lando thing. How is it not weird? Because it’s his daughter? How can he possibly know that? Has he read the script?

 

Absolutely.

The only.thing that makes any sense is what Thor says about the beginning of TFA, but that's not remotely enough to hang an important main character beat on three films later.

 

Watching these films, at face value, the only thing a viewer would expect is a confession that Finn is attracted to Rey. There is simply nothing there to lead to any other conclusion. Terrible writing, again, and probably indicative of how much of a hodgepodge this film actually is.

 

Oh and Dumbledore is gay, and the Weasleys vote Tory.

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12 hours ago, Festoon said:

 

Don't care what they said - they also said some utter shit about Rose and Leia.

I'm talking about what's in the actual films - Finn in love with Rey makes sense. The other is not hinted at in the slightest way in any way.

 

But there are subtle hints throughout.

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On 02/01/2020 at 11:34, Festoon said:

An ancient dagger.

From 30 years ago.

 

Like having an ancient dagger from the year 2000.


No-one said it was ancient. 

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5 hours ago, drmick said:

 

But there are subtle hints throughout.

 

Oh the famous JJ mytsery boxes.

 

 

 

 

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16 hours ago, Broker said:


I don’t know, but to suggest they don’t exist at all is to suggest that say, Scarface, is no better than say, Attack of the Clones, and also that everyone who ever reviewed a movie or wrote a thesis on film was wasting their time. There’s established ways that movies and stories in general work, backed up by years of research and work. Good films conform to those ideas or change them in deliberate ways. Bad films ignore them or change them in meaningless ways for the sake of it. 
 

There’s no definitive marker of artistic merit you can point to, but objectively derived artistic merit arrived at by consensus exists as a nebulous cultural force. 

What you described IS subjective by definition as there is no objective measure mentioned, only subjective opinion. If your "objectively derived artistic merit" is garnered from a consensus of subjective opinions then it is still subjective. The top rated IMDB film is the result of a huge consensus of subjective opinions which tells us ShawShank Redemption is the best film.. that does not make it objectively true. You may decide that the great unwashed should not be included in the "nebulous cultural force" in which case the AFI has Citizen Kane at the top film , is that objectively true? nope. BFI asked critics and they came up with Vertigo. again not objectively the best film.

 

Reviewing or critiquing a movie is a subjective business, it is moulded by your opinion on the subject and what you enjoy in films. On an individual level it is all subjective. Someone might prefer AoTC to Scarface and if they could write  a convincing review as to why they think that then I would applaud them. Doesn't mean I think they are right.

 

Films and art are inherently subjective beasts when it comes to opinion. Yes there are outliers like saying "oh well Manos Hand of Fate is obviously objectively worse than Citizen Kane" but even that isn't objective.

 

You might drill down and say well lights or sound or camerawork can be objectively bad but that isn';t the whole story with film. Plan 9 from Outer Space has elements to it which are objectively bad but the film itself is better than the sum of its parts. I'd rather watch that than a million other "objectively competent/better" shot/lit films.

 

reviewers themselves are subjected to reviews themselves and those reviews are also subjective.

 

EDIT - Also the straightjacket to art of saying that there are rules and established ways that must be conformed with or changed in deliberate ways would be massively limiting ot the artform.

 

 

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19 hours ago, drmick said:

Guys, it's been confirmed by Terrio and/or Abrams that what Finn wanted to tell Rey was that he was Force sensitive.

 

Just another stupid idea in a film full of stupid ideas.

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Finn being force sensitive is a fine idea and even set up in the first movie - where Finn reacts to the first order destroying the new republic planets but this being a dying revelation to Rey is so stupid - why would he need to tell her that, over his feelings for her?

 

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Has this been posted before? Interesting clip from 1994 on Lucas beginning the Star Wars prequels. To give the guy credit, the finished product may have not been brilliant, but at least he gave the characters some thought. 
 


Somehow it feels like the opposite of the new films, here’s one guy trying to plot everything together in his man shed with no real commercial pressure.

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18 minutes ago, Delargey said:

Finn being force sensitive is a fine idea and even set up in the first movie - where Finn reacts to the first order destroying the new republic planets but this being a dying revelation to Rey is so stupid - why would he need to tell her that, over his feelings for her?

 

 

It wouldn't. But writers are dumbasses obsessed with 'mysteries', 'answers' and twists.

 

Also, FORCE GHOSTS APPEAR

 

REY: Who're these guys?

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