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Jug McKenzie

Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker (December 2019)

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The weirdest bit of this is the existence of perpetual child-snatching raids, like, there's even dialogue where the First Order talk about recent losses and say they'll step up the raids, like there isn't a 10-year lag on that being a solution.

 

And then people in here being like "makes perfect sense, questioning it is like wanting to see the catering department onscreen" or something.

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59 minutes ago, Harsin said:

‘Poe, turns out I still have the hots for you after all this time and you are definitely NOT GAY. Let me repeat, you - Poe Dameron - like having sex with ladies and are definitely NOT GAY. Now please accept my big sacrifice of this Pog, that I have apparently spent a lot of time and effort to obtain, that will let you on any Star Destroyer without queuing and allow you to leave the planet of perpetual Nazi Raids.'

 

/planet gets blown up

 

’No it’s fine fam, I managed to get off the planet anyway somehow.’

Where has all this weird ‘not gay’ stuff come from? Was it ever insinuated that he was gay or something? Why does it all of a sudden matter that he had a female love interest back in the day?

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Finn and Poe's on screen chemistry has prompted a lot of fans to push for a romantic relationship between them. Oscar Isaac has said in interviews that he would have liked to explore the idea of a Finn/Poe romantic relationship:  

 

Quote

“Personally, I kind of hoped and wished that maybe that would’ve been taken further in the other films, but I don’t have control,” Isaac told Variety. “It seemed like a natural progression, but sadly enough it’s a time when people are too afraid, I think, of… I don’t know what.”

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Poe’s love interest felt more like yet another abandoned plot thread left in than an explicit no homo scene, although maybe that’s why only that bit of Poe’s possible romantic sub plot is still present. 

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I like to think that the design for Poe's love interest was rescued from a folder in the BSG production office marked "CYLONS=SEXY NOW???"

 

ihavesinnedagainstgod.thumb.jpg.e3ebe92b702f46d724f878fe47e30f7e.jpg

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2 hours ago, MrCarrot said:

And who did the first batch of child snatching?

There was a Sith Lord back in the day who many strongly suspect

 

Spoiler

ojvoPl3.jpg

 

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I didn’t understand Poe’s love interest thing at all. She asks him to go with her, gives him the most important thing she has (quite literally the key to her freedom), and then at the end, when they finally have the chance to be together, tells him to piss off. 

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1 hour ago, HarryBizzle said:

I didn’t understand Poe’s love interest thing at all. She asks him to go with her, gives him the most important thing she has (quite literally the key to her freedom), and then at the end, when they finally have the chance to be together, tells him to piss off. 

 

It's only to show us he's NOT GAY. 

 

NO HOMO

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On 31/12/2019 at 15:25, Mr Ben said:

They could do the Yuuzhan Vong, but I suspect they wont, though it would make for a darker Star Wars series of films I suspect, given the source material. Would also make Palpatine's plan for the Empire make more sense, as it would make it seem like he knew about them, and was planning for it.

 

While this is kind of cool an idea in a way (that the Sith ultimately help save the Republic/galaxy by preparing and strengthening it for an eventual invasion the Jedi and Old Republic were too weak/ineffectual to deal with) and something that was later retconned as something Revan was aiming for, it doesn't really work with Palpatine as he's only ever presented to us as pure concentrated evil. The closest he ever gets to showing actual humane empathetic qualities is when he first finds Anakin's charred remains. That's it, the rest of the time, he's basically fuckin' Satan and never shows any interest in anything that isn't him, nor any indication of wanting to do something helpful or productive for others with the power at his disposal.

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1 hour ago, Nick R said:

#ReleaseTheJJCut is now a thing. :facepalm:

 

Apparently it's come from this bit of anonymous My Uncle Works At Nintendo gossip from someone on r/saltierthancrait:

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/comments/eisnd8/heres_what_ive_been_told_from_a_source_that/

 

 

 

 

That reddit thread, in terms of the scenes cut and reshoots seems quite plausible.

 

Not so sure about the reasons though. I'm coming to the conclusion that Kathleen Kennedy must have a shitload of dirt on so many Holywood types to wield so much power.

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8 hours ago, JPL said:

Where has all this weird ‘not gay’ stuff come from? Was it ever insinuated that he was gay or something? Why does it all of a sudden matter that he had a female love interest back in the day?

It comes from the bromance they had In Force Awakens. Tbh I literally only ever saw it as just two guys that got on like a house on fire, maybe a bit of hero worship from Finn after seeing Poe's piloting skills in action. I had no problem with how it played out in this film.

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That 'insider gossip' is just fanciful and hilarious.

 

Disney screwed JJ into making a film with, um, exactly the same style and extremely poor plotting he's been making since Mission Impossible 3. 

 

He was so unhappy with the 'meddling' on TFA that he, um, came back for TRoS, abd um, TFA is very like the Star Trek films. Run and gun plotting.

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It is weird that a lot of people seem to act as if JJ wrote the script to this or TFA though, both were shot and directed competently, but blaming him for the stuff that was written by Terrio or Kasdan seems like blaming actors for how their characters were written, something the thread decided was very bad and dumb.

 

I especially don't think you can put down the nostalgia pandering at his feet, given it's been relentless in every Disney Star Wars thing, regardless of the creative team, that definitely feels like something corporate mandated just due to sheer consistency.

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On 01/01/2020 at 08:05, JohnC said:

Even Bruce wants someone else to take over that role. 

Why not Chris Pratt?

 

 

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4 hours ago, RubberJohnny said:

It is weird that a lot of people seem to act as if JJ wrote the script to this or TFA though, both were shot and directed competently, but blaming him for the stuff that was written by Terrio or Kasdan seems like blaming actors for how their characters were written, something the thread decided was very bad and dumb.

 

I especially don't think you can put down the nostalgia pandering at his feet, given it's been relentless in every Disney Star Wars thing, regardless of the creative team, that definitely feels like something corporate mandated just due to sheer consistency.


He’s co-writer on both this and TFA.

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My favourite parts of that “leak”: 

 

Abrams going to Disney after principal photography wrapped, with a three hour assembly cut, suggesting doing two movies instead of one.

 

The “leaker”’s complete horror at the concept of ADR

 

That they filmed a bunch of extra force ghosts but China said they couldn’t include that bit because they were the wrong shade of blue.

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Some interesting new comments from the editor and writer that directly contradict some fan theories. In particular the writer would’ve loved to have done two movies but it was never actually considered given the nine-movie plan:

 

https://io9.gizmodo.com/rise-of-skywalker-s-writer-and-editor-discuss-some-ling-1840776210

 

It also states that nothing from Trevorrow’s script was passed on to the Abrams production, which I guess makes the story credit and honorary one.

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20 hours ago, Harsin said:

 

If you can’t see the gulf in quality between the dagger nonsense in this and Raiders of the Lost Ark, then I’m not sure how to even begin to respond.

 

At no point whatsoever did I insinuate that the quality of the TROS quest is up there with one of the greatest films of all time.

 

National Treasure, for example, is also "Indiana Jones-esque" - it doesn't mean it's anywhere near that good.  The point is that it's a genre, where suspension of disbelief surrounding the "clues" is a pre-requisite of enjoying the movie.

 

That said, the whole idea that someone built a miniature model of an ancient city just so that a staff could be held up to the sun at a very particular point of the day to reveal the resting place of something that they never really wanted to be found - that's an example of the 'pulp nonsense' i was referring to, and it's not a million miles from the dagger.  It's something done for the convenience of keeping the plot moving, because this is an adventure movie, not a documentary.  This kind of stuff does not bear over-analysis, even in a movie of the quality of Raiders.

 

 

21 hours ago, Alex W. said:


If it had been edited “very well” it wouldn’t have as much of the set-up for that storyline still in it, building up to almost but not quite nothing happening. There’s too much of the connective tissue of that excised story thread (and the one where Finn is going to tell Rey something) without the corresponding payoff. Understandable editing, yes. Functional-enough editing, sure. Difficult editing, almost certainly. Is the edit we’re left with “very good”? No.

 

Goodness knows I don’t envy them though.

 

There's no setup for Lando/Jannah left in the movie - the only place it remains is in the visual dictionary.  A point was made previously that this was evidence of bad editing.  My point was that it has been edited out well.  At no point does anyone watching that film think "oh they were hinting Lando was her dad but all of a sudden he's not".  It's simply not there and has been removed, so that's an example of good editing.  Other parts of the film may not be edited as well - it's got its pacing issues at points, and i would've preferred some more downtime where characters got the chance to take a breather and talk, but that's simply not JJ's style.

 

The one about Finn telling Rey something is, to me, a running gag not a excised story line.  The film shows that he has discovered force sensitivity, but it plays on the trope of someone declaring romantic interest in the face of certain death.  It's part of the comic dynamic of the three heroes together - keeping secrets, etc.  I did not reach the end of the movie thinking "what was he going to tell her?" because, by the end, it was obvious that he wasn't romantically interested in her, but instead could feel the force.

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Removing one bad thing from a film full of bad things doesn't make it a well edited movie. Do we commend that? "Oh, well done, you could have put a shit thing in there but you didn't. There were still shit things in there but there was one less than there could have been so well done on that, pal. Now let's go find that dagger and that wayfinder and Babu Frik and helmet lady and etc etc etc" 

 

And, again, the Rey Finn thing might have landed a bit better if there was one less magical McGuffin to go chasing so that some of the plot/longer winded stuff had a bit longer to breathe. But because there's so much going on it all just feels like nothing's been thought about. 

 

And I'm not sure you can wave away bad pacing by just calling it J.J's style. His style is a pretty good fit for a film setting up characters and following a basic, safe plot. See TFA and the original Star Trek. But the minute you try and put any meat on the bones it falls apart because he doesn't give anything enough depth. If that's your style, maybe change it and try and grow as a filmmaker? 

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6 minutes ago, Mugman said:

Removing one bad thing from a film full of bad things doesn't make it a well edited movie. And, again, the Rey Finn thing might have landed a bit better if there was one less magical McGuffin to go chasing so that some of the plot/longer winded stuff had a bit longer to breathe. But because there's so much going on it all just feels like nothing's been thought about. 

 

And I'm not sure you can wave away bad pacing by just calling it J.J's style. His style is a pretty good fit for a film setting up characters and following a basic, safe plot. See TFA and the original Star Trek. But the minute you try and put any meat on the bones it falls apart because he doesn't give anything enough depth. If that's your style, maybe change it and try and grow as a filmmaker? 

This is spot on. I remember when he was lauded as the next Speilberg (:facepalm:); but for all Speilberg's faults and missteps he kept pushing himself in new directions.

 

This last effort shows Abrams to have all the depth and integrity of Jive Bunny and the Mastermixers.

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Just now, Mawdlin said:

This is spot on. I remember when he was lauded as the next Speilberg (:facepalm:); but for all Speilberg's faults and missteps he kept pushing himself in new directions.

 

This last effort shows Abrams to have all the depth and integrity of Jive Bunny.

He's the next Speilberg in the sense that Oasis are the next Beatles. They'll play a song that sounds like Come Together but wont iterate on it. 

 

STOP JUST PUTTING LENS FLARES ON COME TOGETHER, NOEL! 

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This thread of late has been ... interesting. By interesting I mean absolutely toxic for anyone who even got a little enjoyment from the movie. 

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Everything I’ve read about Abrams indicated that he’s something of a yes man and one of the reasons studio execs adore him is because he doesn’t fight them on their various ‘helpful’ notes - so this sudden idea that he’s some kind of auteur being shocked to find out that big studios mess about with the artistic process is a bit u wot mate.

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52 minutes ago, Sixkiller said:

There's no setup for Lando/Jannah left in the movie - the only place it remains is in the visual dictionary.  A point was made previously that this was evidence of bad editing.  My point was that it has been edited out well.  At no point does anyone watching that film think "oh they were hinting Lando was her dad but all of a sudden he's not".  It's simply not there and has been removed, so that's an example of good editing.  Other parts of the film may not be edited as well - it's got its pacing issues at points, and i would've preferred some more downtime where characters got the chance to take a breather and talk, but that's simply not JJ's style.

 

The one about Finn telling Rey something is, to me, a running gag not a excised story line.  The film shows that he has discovered force sensitivity, but it plays on the trope of someone declaring romantic interest in the face of certain death.  It's part of the comic dynamic of the three heroes together - keeping secrets, etc.  I did not reach the end of the movie thinking "what was he going to tell her?" because, by the end, it was obvious that he wasn't romantically interested in her, but instead could feel the force.


But there is the set-up for both these things: we get the introduction of the child-snatching raids, then we’re introduced to this character who’s been snatched away and escaped, and at the end she sits down next to another long-established character who’s old enough to be her dad and he asks her what planet she’s from and I was honestly sitting there in the cinema thinking “this is a weird time to shoe-horn in this character connection” and then it doesn’t happen. I’ve never read the Visual Dictionary but if it makes it clear that was the intended arc of her character I’m not the least bit surprised.
 

Doing something a couple of times and having a character actually pop up on screen and ask what the big mystery is and having the other one tease it isn’t an in-joke. It’s just another set-up with no punchline. Sure you can easily interpolate where they were going with it but that’s not good editing. It’s not even intriguing or mysterious, it’s just not finishing the job.

 

These aren’t sequences that needed to pay off a particular way, they just needed to pay off. As it stands they feel like what they are: loose ends that they cut off as efficiently as they could under the circumstances.

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Is it obvious that Finn isn't romantically interested in her? He spends most of the movie staying he needs to find Rey or just shouting her name.

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56 minutes ago, Mugman said:

Removing one bad thing from a film full of bad things doesn't make it a well edited movie. Do we commend that? "Oh, well done, you could have put a shit thing in there but you didn't. There were still shit things in there but there was one less than there could have been so well done on that, pal.

 

The original point was the the Lando/Jannah thing was a bad edit.  I'm pointing out that it, i.e. the removal of that story beat is actually a good edit.  I don't see anything in the movie suggesting that Jannah is the child of anyone we know, just as in TFA there was never any suggestion that Finn was the stolen child of anyone we know.  While both those characters stated they'd been taken from their families, neither expressed any interest on intention in trying to get back to them - setting them apart from Rey who still held her lost family in her heart, harbouring memories that we were even shown on screen.

 

The opinion on the edit of the movie as a whole is different as that's very much down to taste.  I can see why it doesn't work for everyone, and I certainly don't consider it to beperfect, but I've loved the film more each time I've seen it.  It's not an objectively bad edit or an objectively bad movie.  People who think it is should go and watch some truly bad movies before throwing such accusations at it.  Ultimately it does what I needed it to do and it leaves me incredibly happy.  I'm sorry that's not the same for everyone, but that's the nature of the beast.

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